New study: Free-Weight and Machine-Based Training Are Equally Effective on Strength and Hypertrophy

[nothuman]

This is going to piss some old school folks off but data is data

Free-Weight and Machine-Based Training Are Equally... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

(n = 19) groups. Training variables were identical for both modalities, so they only differed in the use of barbells or machines to execute the full squat, bench press, prone bench pull, and shoulder press exercises. The velocity-based method was implemented to accurately adjust the intensity...

journals.lww.com

 

[slesh]

Lol didn’t think we needed an official study to come to this conclusion…

 

[nothuman]

Lol didn’t think we needed an official study to come to this conclusion…

It is very common to hear bodybuilders say that free weights are superior to machines. It’s one of the most widespread myths in bodybuilding.

 

[Thahulk]

Some exercises feel best on machine and some free weight. Varies by person as well.

 

[K1]

Edit: Member was @danieltx ...During the lockdowns, showed that even with just a Bowflex you can keep handling business at a hardcore level

What's the saying, it's not the weight but how you move it...Same applies for machines.

 

[danieltx]

Shit, who was it @cm I believe...During the lockdowns, showed that even with just a Bowflex you can keep handling business at a hardcore level

What's the saying, it's not the weight but how you move it...Same applies for machines.

I don't know about @cm but I did do 2/3 of my diet in 2020 using a Bowflex at home and kept all 20lbs. I had gained from that offseason.

It is very common to hear bodybuilders say that free weights are superior to machines. It’s one of the most widespread myths in bodybuilding.

One of my goals is to help crush all this old dogma bullshit but it's had because it's so widespread. I've said many times the only things I use free weights for are side and front raises for shoulders, everything else is machines.

 

[nothuman]

I don't know about @cm but I did do 2/3 of my diet in 2020 using a Bowflex at home and kept all 20lbs. I had gained from that offseason.


One of my goals is to help crush all this old dogma bullshit but it's had because it's so widespread. I've said many times the only things I use free weights for are side and front raises for shoulders, everything else is machines.

I still have friends who I’m 4x bigger than giving me shit for using a smith machine for squats

 

[Hatchet]

This is going to piss some old school folks off but data is data

Free-Weight and Machine-Based Training Are Equally... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

(n = 19) groups. Training variables were identical for both modalities, so they only differed in the use of barbells or machines to execute the full squat, bench press, prone bench pull, and shoulder press exercises. The velocity-based method was implemented to accurately adjust the intensity...

journals.lww.com

Not all data is truthful/accurate.
Machines for sure have their place.

But no one is going to PR at a PL meet, training up to it using machines only...
Multi-joint BB movements build the most over-all strength, no matter what a study tells us.

The other thing I dont like about "machines only" they spend their entire session seated on their ass...

 

[Gunsmith]

I agree 100% and will go as far to say that you can make better progress on a machine than free weights under certain circumstances.
after my shoulder surgery in February I’m still not able to use heavier weights with dumbbell presses with chest and shoulders but I can steadily increase my weight one several different machines allowing to get a good chest workout. If I were stu with just dumbbell I can‘t push enough weight with enough intensity to really feel the pec working so without a doubt I’m getting better hypertrophy with a machine

 

[K1]

I don't know about @cm but I did do 2/3 of my diet in 2020 using a Bowflex at home and kept all 20lbs. I had gained from that offseason.


One of my goals is to help crush all this old dogma bullshit but it's had because it's so widespread. I've said many times the only things I use free weights for are side and front raises for shoulders, everything else is machines.

Maybe it was your thread then...Thought an IFBB Pro here was doing the same during the lockdowns?!

Regardless...Exactly my man!

 

[danieltx]

Maybe it was your thread then...Thought an IFBB Pro here was doing the same during the lockdowns?!

Regardless...Exactly my man!

I know Brad Rowe did - that's where I got the idea.

 

[Dens228]

Not all data is truthful/accurate.
Machines for sure have their place.

But no one is going to PR at a PL meet, training up to it using machines only...
Multi-joint BB movements build the most over-all strength, no matter what a study tells us.

The other thing I dont like about "machines only" they spend their entire session seated on their ass...

I'm going to assume you compete in powerlifting, and if you do you know full well that technique has a lot to do with those lifts. So yes, machines will not equate to success in a meet.

 

[qbkilla]

I think this is something most here know. Both have advantages you can build muscle with both. One thing that stands out I see a lot of hype on social media hating the lateral DB raises because there is no tension at the bottom, people saying the cable is superior. Sure science says so but how many side delts have been built with good ol fashion dumbbells?

 

[danieltx]

I think this is something most here know. Both have advantages you can build muscle with both. One thing that stands out I see a lot of hype on social media hating the lateral DB raises because there is no tension at the bottom, people saying the cable is superior. Sure science says so but how many side delts have been built with good ol fashion dumbbells?

I 100% agree on the no tension thing.

This is why cables are superior, particularly for those with long arms - there's constant tension throughout the movement. I've done DB and cable laterals in my workouts for years. Sticking with the idea that plenty of delts were good with DBs is fine but living in the past will always limit your progress. As someone who struggles with delts you should definitely be trying different things.

 

[Doitagain]

My legs have always been WAY stronger than my lower back.
I owe 90% of my thighs development to the Leg Press.
If I had to rely on free weight squat my legs would still be straws.

 

[MAD_SCIENTIST]

Shit, who was it @cm I believe...During the lockdowns, showed that even with just a Bowflex you can keep handling business at a hardcore level

What's the saying, it's not the weight but how you move it...Same applies for machines.

I believe it was @danieltx That used the bow flex during the covid lock down. I remember his log on it. Very impressive and inspiring. He showed us it can be done.
Mad props to @danieltx.

MS

MS

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Lol didn’t think we needed an official study to come to this conclusion…

Have you not interacted with any of the “show me the study” folks lately

 

[qbkilla]

I 100% agree on the no tension thing.

This is why cables are superior, particularly for those with long arms - there's constant tension throughout the movement. I've done DB and cable laterals in my workouts for years. Sticking with the idea that plenty of delts were good with DBs is fine but living in the past will always limit your progress. As someone who struggles with delts you should definitely be trying different things.

I definitely do both variations but I do feel them in the caps with the DB if I go light and pause at the top. Do you feel the DB version is essentially a waste of time if cables are available? Also wondering your thoughts on DB upright rows, I really feel them in the side more than anything.

 

[danieltx]

I definitely do both variations but I do feel them in the caps with the DB if I go light and pause at the top. Do you feel the DB version is essentially a waste of time if cables are available? Also wondering your thoughts on DB upright rows, I really feel them in the side more than anything.

DB laterals are not a waste of time - I wouldn't do them if they were. I do them because they're one of the only movements I feel well with dumbbells. But I still think cables are superior due to constant tension through the range of motion.

I've never done upright rows of any kind. But I do use form akin to upright rows on my cable laterals. Think of how Ronnie Coleman used to do them where it's pulling the elbow up with the arm down in front instead of the arm coming up to the side.

 

[qbkilla]

DB laterals are not a waste of time - I wouldn't do them if they were. I do them because they're one of the only movements I feel well with dumbbells. But I still think cables are superior due to constant tension through the range of motion.

I've never done upright rows of any kind. But I do use form akin to upright rows on my cable laterals. Think of how Ronnie Coleman used to do them where it's pulling the elbow up with the arm down in front instead of the arm coming up to the side.

I do similar on raises/rows...feel like it's one of those exercises...form is individual based on mm connection/anatomy. Sometimes I'll start out more like a y raises, then as fatigue hits more a traditional raise and then more into an upright dumbbell row, almost like mechanical drop set.