New study: Free-Weight and Machine-Based Training Are Equally Effective on Strength and Hypertrophy

[buck]

I would still tend to think that free weight movements would transfer over to real life strength more so then machine movements. To see which group actually got stronger i would think that maybe they do a strong man type event before and after to see who got stronger.

 

[275bills]

I would still tend to think that free weight movements would transfer over to real life strength more so then machine movements. To see which group actually got stronger i would think that maybe they do a strong man type event before and after to see who got stronger.

What would you consider real life strength?

 

[SouthernMuscle]

What would you consider real life strength?

Like if a small tree fell on you, you would have to press it off
or if your friend was falling over a cliff and you had to grab his hand to save him and bicep curl him back up

you know, just random everyday type stuff

 

[Doitagain]

Like if a small tree fell on you, you would have to press it off
or if your friend was falling over a cliff and you had to grab his hand to save him and bicep curl him back up

you know, just random everyday type stuff

Happens to me no less than twice a week since I was 13.

 

[Yousef12O2]

What would you consider real life strength?

grip strength for example would get stronger through free weights (deadlifts, weighted pullups etc) compared to machind (smith deadlifts/ rack pulls, pullup machine/ lat pulldowns etc)

 

[b-boy]

The other thing I dont like about "machines only" they spend their entire session seated on their ass...

^^^^ this part I agree on

 

[b-boy]

If I had a choice it would be barbell and Dumbbell EVERYTHING, but I don't because my body is destroyed from YEARS of heavy lifting to where I now use machines for everything. Minus the slight loss from older age I have kept up very well with machines. If I bumped up the diet and gear I would have no problem growing on machines only.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

The argument itself is flawed. What’s better, a ball peen hammer or a mallet? It’s not which is better, it’s “what’s the right tool for the job?”

Exercises have different levels of systemic fatigue. Systemic fatigue has a lot to do with how much effort your body is putting into stabilizing the path of the weight/resistance profile.

If we were training quads, here’s a list of exercises from most systemic fatigue vs least…

Barbell Squat
Smith Squat
Hack Squat
Leg Press
Leg Extension

It takes more overall systemic effort to do a smith squat than it does a leg press.

How you understand and manage this will dictate your ability to recover, avoid acute/chronic injuries, etc.

Another thing to consider is how complete the resistance profile is.
Is there more tension in the lengthened position and less in the shortened?
Is there more tension in the shortened position and less in the lengthened?
Is the resistance profile complete from top to bottom?

Side note- Leg presses aren’t superior to squats and vice versa. What matters for quad training is whether or not you have to knowledge/experience to create the most knee flexion and extension. Most people give up on squats because they don’t understand how to create maximal knee flexion, turning it into an ass and hip lift. They actually do the same thing with leg presses, but chalk it up to how they’re limb length.

 

[buck]

What would you consider real life strength?

Such as what i described for the test. Pushing, pulling lifting, carrying, moving real life objects.

 

[Hatchet]

I think they both have their place, I like a mix (75% free weights, 25% Machines/Cables). Everyone's different...
I dont need a study, or technical mumbo-jumbo to tell me how to get stronger/bigger. 45 years under the bar has told me all I need to know...

Like many here, we've been at this game for many decades...

 

[Heath82]

Whatever you can feel the muscle work best is the best. If you can’t feel the muscle work and are just moving the weight from point a to point b don’t expect much results

 

[airman]

Not all data is truthful/accurate.
Machines for sure have their place.

But no one is going to PR at a PL meet, training up to it using machines only...
Multi-joint BB movements build the most over-all strength, no matter what a study tells us.

The other thing I dont like about "machines only" they spend their entire session seated on their ass...

What does hypertrophy and bodybuilding have to do with a powerlifting meet?

 

[aHarness]

But no one is going to PR at a PL meet, training up to it using machines only...
Multi-joint BB movements build the most over-all strength, no matter what a study tells us.

This is a weird straw man…. Of course an event that specializes in BSD is going to require you to train for those movements.

 

[Massive G]

The argument itself is flawed. What’s better, a ball peen hammer or a mallet? It’s not which is better, it’s “what’s the right tool for the job?”

Exercises have different levels of systemic fatigue. Systemic fatigue has a lot to do with how much effort your body is putting into stabilizing the path of the weight/resistance profile.

If we were training quads, here’s a list of exercises from most systemic fatigue vs least…

Barbell Squat
Smith Squat
Hack Squat
Leg Press
Leg Extension

It takes more overall systemic effort to do a smith squat than it does a leg press.

How you understand and manage this will dictate your ability to recover, avoid acute/chronic injuries, etc.

Another thing to consider is how complete the resistance profile is.
Is there more tension in the lengthened position and less in the shortened?
Is there more tension in the shortened position and less in the lengthened?
Is the resistance profile complete from top to bottom?

Side note- Leg presses aren’t superior to squats and vice versa. What matters for quad training is whether or not you have to knowledge/experience to create the most knee flexion and extension. Most people give up on squats because they don’t understand how to create maximal knee flexion, turning it into an ass and hip lift. They actually do the same thing with leg presses, but chalk it up to how they’re limb length.

Thank you.

 

[rippedyearround]

Even though the "tool for the job" is the correct framework, I doubt the voice inside my head will ever stop telling me I'm a b*tch for every machine I use.

 

[need4tren]

I would say machines and cables are far superior to building muscle than free weight. Angles and machines can offer a better resistance profile that you can’t get with free weight.

But we don’t have to choose and we have the best of both worlds.

But chances are if you only stick to machines, you don’t do any of the hard shit like a deadlift/stiff leg/ squat and all those grinder of exercises. And chances are you don’t train hard

 

[fisther69]

I honestly think % wise machines are way better because most people never learn form and are incapable of properly lifting free weights

 

[Yousef12O2]

many people load hammer chest press machines with 4-5 plates and have small chests but you don't see people bench pressing 4+ plates for reps with good form with small chests.

 

[0893]

many people load hammer chest press machines with 4-5 plates and have small chests but you don't see people bench pressing 4+ plates for reps with good form with small chests.

IMO free weights are better overall, but there are many guys who can press 4+ plates with good form that have relatively underdeveloped chests.

 

[qbkilla]

Ran

Whatever you can feel the muscle work best is the best. If you can’t feel the muscle work and are just moving the weight from point a to point b don’t expect much results

Spot on IMO. Interesting, yesterday I wanted to do high reps, used the side delt machine didn't feel shut. Switched to light DB and that lit up my delts. But when I go heavier, it's the opposite as to what makes me really feel the muscle.