Off TRT! Is HPTA recovery possible?

[Deleted member 106824]

I'll have them email me some pics and I will post it up for you to see. But just for a general idea, my friend who is 35 years old 5'10 weighs 110kilos which is about 240lbs with apprx 8-9%bf

They don't use all of the above in one cycle. Different people have different favorites. Like my friend I just mentioned last year did 8 weeks of deca at 1000mg (HG Norma) with 20mg of d-bol (HG Naposim) then another 8weeks of Tren Hex at 700mg and another 8 weeks on 1000mg of Primo (Sheiring HG)and 350mg of Mast. No AI's but here and there he would throw clomid for a couple of days and that's it. I don't know if that's for human grade gear or because they take breaks every winter but I would never look the same on similar US UG compounds. Genetics is a factor also I guess. They all do blood works very frequently like 2 times a month because it's free. I really liked that fact so much that was actually thinking about moving back there again. Here in US medical would cost me more than my gear lol.

Damn, yea 5'10" 240lb at <10% is huge by most standards, I imagine that would mean even after 26 weeks off they could still be 225 <10% or so at worst?

I was going to make a similar comment regarding HG gear. I would assume that makes a big difference. That it what I hear from nearly every person who has used HG vs UG gear...that it's a different world. Having said that, my test has always been dosed relatively close according to blood work, or I have adjusted how much I took if blood work showed it to be low, so who knows, maybe I just don't respond as well. I will say that when I take "legal" orals like SD which are more likely to be accurately dosed the results are far better than any injectable I've taken even at 1/4-1/2 the dose.

I get more blood work than almost anyone I know, especially compared to other people my age (who tend to never get it done), 18x in the last 2.5 years (just got #19 done last Thursday) but I've had to get probably 5+ different doctors to write the scripts. It's been free but definitely a hassle. Couldn't imagine how much it would cost me to use mdprivatelabs or whatever that site is given all the tests I get done per blood work, definitely in the thousands of dollars at this point.

 

[DK0223]

pumped are you starting to realize that coming off might not be so bad after all?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

pumped are you starting to realize that coming off might not be so bad after all?

lol I base my opinions on science and anecdotal evidence. So far the large majority of evidence and most importantly my own is in favor of cruising at TRT doses in between cycles. If enough evidence was presented showing the validity of coming off while still attaining the desired goals I would be happy to reassess my stance.

 

[DK0223]

Touché and to each their own brotha. Sounds like you are doing things correctly though by getting frequent blood work and keeping tabs on your body. I commend you for that

 

[aflo]

Still no word from Ross? Lol

 

[Deleted member 106824]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzuYLpUl24&list=UUisQo-fDUeLc1nIce0VD6YQ"]Real Talk - Taking breaks from gear - YouTube[/ame]

Relevant

He said he took a month off completely then 2 months of cruising, which is how I'd go about it. Apparently worked very well for him, said it seemed to improve results and increased his sensitivity.

 

[TT]

Some people say that Androgen Receptors up-regulate themselves and that the are no studies showing that TRT is no less effective with time. In reality it's all different though, and I like the analogy this guy made.

Good post Pumped.

God Bless all,

TT

 

[DK0223]

tt check your inbox brotha

 

[TT]

Good news. I found a good endo and last week did another test and it showed 300. Almost doubled within a month.

 

[DK0223]

Awesome bro glad to hear

 

[CYPHON]

Anyone ever try adding HMG to a HCG/Clomid stack? I remember reading it can help recovery....I just havent been able to locate HMG which is taken 75i.u. 1-2 times weekly.

I think its worth a shot if I can find the HMG

 

[flipper2012]

There are a few sponsors on here that carry it just look around.

 

[yeahbuddeh]

I am saying 0 in your situation. Where naturally your test levels are normal and don't require TRT. If someone like me with 172 of test that is different. TRT isn't a demon nor its an Angel. We can't assume it is 100% safe. If my grandpa used to smoke 2 packs a day my brother after couple years of smoking developed all kinds of problems. You see where I am getting. And liver toxicity is real. It is not fatal of course but liver issues are real and you can find it if you look good enough. As I said I am not doing anybody's homework.

Again, the question was what was healthier/lesser risk for a people with normal test levels. The answer to that is obvious. Even simple fact that response to gear diminishes with TRT and one has use higher doses in the consequent blast and thus subjecting themselves to unnecessary risk.

And again, keeping gains and healthy do not mix. I myself never used PCT drugs except this last fall because I obviously needed them and only took them for a short period of time. Getting off was, is and always will be a better option for the health minded people. Now for keeping gains minded people it is not applicable. You want to do TRT after 4 weeks because that's when your gains start falling off. If that is the case and the case is fear of getting smaller than nothing can stop you and you know the consequences but it won't change your mind. TRT is not a "healthy" option. If your test bounces back, what's the point of TRT? with true TRT you mimic your natural production. So who cares that for a month it will be less than natural. After that you will have your levels just as with TRUE TRT. So what's the point? Gains don't fall off that easy. Water does. You don't have to use PCT. I also don't believe in PCT for those that get the test back naturally. There is simply no need for it.

We talked about "healthier" option but we should not ignore strategic thinking. What happens if after lets say after 5-10 years you develop health issues or any other scenario that would require you to go off? By committing to TRT at 23 with the intent of juicing for many years you shut the door behind you. Why not to leave that door open? It doesn't cost much. Only a few pounds of water weight.

Are you saying in order for one to stop 3 years of TRT use, clomid isn't needed? How would one stop and recover their natural test without it?

 

[Sportbillyblue]

my experiences for the past 20 years and recent, for what it's worth.

Years back I would cycle for 8 to 12 weeks and then take a break, no real PCT per se, possibly a bit of clomid from time t time. The tell take sign being your cum was not like custard and a bit of slackness in our scrotes. It was difficult to get meaningful blood tests done in the UK at that time. During the whole of that period, approx. 12 years I never experienced shutdown once, no loss of libido .. only loss of size when off.

I then left the AAS alone for a while and jumped on HGH. again everything fine.

3 to 4 years ago (now in my mid 40's) I started back on the AAS on a similar cycle to that from many years past, again no issues. Then I decided to change to cruise where I was micro-dosing daily and then blast .. I was not so diligent re: AI's, got carried away with the strength and size increases and thought nothing of needing cialis in order to perform my matrimonial duties .. similarly when cialis failed I thought nothing of pinning pge1 solely for the purpose of sex.

At the beginning of the year I took a reality check, bloodworks revealed Test at >1500 and I had more estrogen than a ladyboy's handbag. LH and FSH were less than 1.0 .. bad, very bad. Endo # 1 told me to stop everything straightaway which didn't seem like a good idea. I went on an intensive PCT (clomid, nolva, proviron) together with HCG and HMG, cut back to 2 i.u.'s of HGH per day and tried every OTC supplement available.

Had sporadic periods when everything seemed to be back to normal but ultiimately they were not. Went to see another Endo (very well respected in this part of the World) who put me on letro and nothing else. His premise being, reduce the estrogen (112 pmol/l) and once we'd got the Test/E2 balance right the LH & FSH should automatically start sorting themselves out.

Bloods in June show Test at 406, E2 down to 280 pmol/l. Then Endo #2 prescribed TRT (Sustanon 250mg every fortnight) and told me I should wait.

There is no moral to the story just a reflection of one man's experiences over the past +20 years. You can draw your own conclusions.

I wish I'd have stuck to my old regime or at least been more diligent re: AI's and proper PCT. I wish I hadn't listened to the blast and cruise dude. Secondary hypogonadism is not funny, the effects are far more reaching than throwing some clomid / HCG etc at it, there's a lot more science to it than that, different areas of science too such as neurotransmitters, levels of dopamine / serotonin etc etc.

It's pyschologically painful to take this, take that and hope that they work then realise they haven't, probably because there is nothing wrong with your prolactin levels (caber, prami), that GnRH does not work when taken SC and an IV injection seems that step too far

I'm not a patient man and as I have not been given a time scale for fixing this problem I have set about understanding more and fast tracking the recovery process. I have just placed orders for Biopterin, LDN, gonadorelin, menopur, metergoline and more. That's another thread in another place

 

[Deleted member 106824]

my experiences for the past 20 years and recent, for what it's worth.

Years back I would cycle for 8 to 12 weeks and then take a break, no real PCT per se, possibly a bit of clomid from time t time. The tell take sign being your cum was not like custard and a bit of slackness in our scrotes. It was difficult to get meaningful blood tests done in the UK at that time. During the whole of that period, approx. 12 years I never experienced shutdown once, no loss of libido .. only loss of size when off.

I then left the AAS alone for a while and jumped on HGH. again everything fine.

3 to 4 years ago (now in my mid 40's) I started back on the AAS on a similar cycle to that from many years past, again no issues. Then I decided to change to cruise where I was micro-dosing daily and then blast .. I was not so diligent re: AI's, got carried away with the strength and size increases and thought nothing of needing cialis in order to perform my matrimonial duties .. similarly when cialis failed I thought nothing of pinning pge1 solely for the purpose of sex.

At the beginning of the year I took a reality check, bloodworks revealed Test at >1500 and I had more estrogen than a ladyboy's handbag. LH and FSH were less than 1.0 .. bad, very bad. Endo # 1 told me to stop everything straightaway which didn't seem like a good idea. I went on an intensive PCT (clomid, nolva, proviron) together with HCG and HMG, cut back to 2 i.u.'s of HGH per day and tried every OTC supplement available.

Had sporadic periods when everything seemed to be back to normal but ultiimately they were not. Went to see another Endo (very well respected in this part of the World) who put me on letro and nothing else. His premise being, reduce the estrogen (112 pmol/l) and once we'd got the Test/E2 balance right the LH & FSH should automatically start sorting themselves out.

Bloods in June show Test at 406, E2 down to 280 pmol/l. Then Endo #2 prescribed TRT (Sustanon 250mg every fortnight) and told me I should wait.

There is no moral to the story just a reflection of one man's experiences over the past +20 years. You can draw your own conclusions.

I wish I'd have stuck to my old regime or at least been more diligent re: AI's and proper PCT. I wish I hadn't listened to the blast and cruise dude. Secondary hypogonadism is not funny, the effects are far more reaching than throwing some clomid / HCG etc at it, there's a lot more science to it than that, different areas of science too such as neurotransmitters, levels of dopamine / serotonin etc etc.

It's pyschologically painful to take this, take that and hope that they work then realise they haven't, probably because there is nothing wrong with your prolactin levels (caber, prami), that GnRH does not work when taken SC and an IV injection seems that step too far

I'm not a patient man and as I have not been given a time scale for fixing this problem I have set about understanding more and fast tracking the recovery process. I have just placed orders for Biopterin, LDN, gonadorelin, menopur, metergoline and more. That's another thread in another place

What do you mean it was "bad, very bad" that your LH and FSH were less than 1.0? Of course they were, you were taking exogenous testosterone. If they weren't completely suppressed that would indicate your Test was fake. Whether you "felt it" previously or not your FSH and LH would have been that low any time you were previously on Test.

Your lack of recovery now could very well be due to the fact that you're in your 40's compared to previously doing it in your 20's.