Telmisartan and hematocrit

[whoremoan]

No. We have been programmed for decades to be terrified and think a fatal cardiac event is imminent by internet forums and physicians spreading false information. It's a normal thing for this to occur when we are on exogeneous hormones, same way it is for people living at high altitudes. If your platelets (and fibronogen) are good and you don't have Factor V or Prothrombin mutations, don't lose sleep over it.

If you have the bone marrow disease called Polycythemia Vera, which is very rare, then you have to worry.

15.5 Hemoglobin is nothing. Much lower than mine.

If you want to feel better, look at some youtube videos from Dr. Neal Rouzier and some others explaining this.

i thought the exact same as you, but when i spoke to some leading gurus/prep coaches they all said if your haemoglobin and hematocrit is out of range ; but platelets red and white are all fine - you should still donate blood or find a way to get it back down - dont lose sleep but do try get it down
plus if its high , then you add more too your cycle then its going to increase further
and when it does the cascade effect is much stronger
i think you are right in a sense, but were bodybuilders and cant really compare ourself to people who live in the Himalayas

 

[nothuman]

i thought the exact same as you, but when i spoke to some leading gurus/prep coaches they all said if your haemoglobin and hematocrit is out of range ; but platelets red and white are all fine - you should still donate blood or find a way to get it back down - dont lose sleep but do try get it down
plus if its high , then you add more too your cycle then its going to increase further
and when it does the cascade effect is much stronger
i think you are right in a sense, but were bodybuilders and cant really compare ourself to people who live in the Himalayas

Anytime I've been in a room with a misinformed urologist or endocrinologist, I've asked them to present me research showing a high hemoglobin in the absence of high platelets is dangerous. Only one actually pulled up a study but that particular study said nothing about platelets, which further proved my point.

There would be a major epidemic of TRT users or people living at high altitudes having heart attacks and strokes if it really was a major concern.

Donating will temporarily drop hemoglobin by a little but then it will come right back up to where it was.

In general, is very healthy for men in general to donate blood a couple of times a year for many reasons (mostly because it lowers iron and can detoxify blood) so we should do it anyway. I just did last week. However, if our ferritin gets too low, which is most likely will if we donate too much, then donating becomes a hazard to our health.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Anytime I've been in a room with a misinformed urologist or endocrinologist, I've asked them to present me research showing a high hemoglobin in the absence of high platelets is dangerous. Only one actually pulled up a study but that particular study said nothing about platelets, which further proved my point.

There would be a major epidemic of TRT users or people living at high altitudes having heart attacks and strokes if it really was a major concern.

Donating will temporarily drop hemoglobin by a little but then it will come right back up to where it was.

In general, is very healthy for men in general to donate blood a couple of times a year for many reasons (mostly because it lowers iron and can detoxify blood) so we should do it anyway. I just did last week. However, if our ferritin gets too low, which is most likely will if we donate too much, then donating becomes a hazard to our health.

“Misinformed” is an extremely generous way to put that

I personally always learn something when you’re dropping knowledge bombs

 

[whacked]

Anytime I've been in a room with a misinformed urologist or endocrinologist, I've asked them to present me research showing a high hemoglobin in the absence of high platelets is dangerous. Only one actually pulled up a study but that particular study said nothing about platelets, which further proved my point.

There would be a major epidemic of TRT users or people living at high altitudes having heart attacks and strokes if it really was a major concern.

Donating will temporarily drop hemoglobin by a little but then it will come right back up to where it was.

In general, is very healthy for men in general to donate blood a couple of times a year for many reasons (mostly because it lowers iron and can detoxify blood) so we should do it anyway. I just did last week. However, if our ferritin gets too low, which is most likely will if we donate too much, then donating becomes a hazard to our health.

Ha. Love it. Amen NH

 

[whoremoan]

Anytime I've been in a room with a misinformed urologist or endocrinologist, I've asked them to present me research showing a high hemoglobin in the absence of high platelets is dangerous. Only one actually pulled up a study but that particular study said nothing about platelets, which further proved my point.

There would be a major epidemic of TRT users or people living at high altitudes having heart attacks and strokes if it really was a major concern.

Donating will temporarily drop hemoglobin by a little but then it will come right back up to where it was.

In general, is very healthy for men in general to donate blood a couple of times a year for many reasons (mostly because it lowers iron and can detoxify blood) so we should do it anyway. I just did last week. However, if our ferritin gets too low, which is most likely will if we donate too much, then donating becomes a hazard to our health.

well from what i heard and read until up to about 6 months ago is exactly as you say
could it also be a sign of dehydration

 

[specter]

Anytime I've been in a room with a misinformed urologist or endocrinologist, I've asked them to present me research showing a high hemoglobin in the absence of high platelets is dangerous. Only one actually pulled up a study but that particular study said nothing about platelets, which further proved my point.

There would be a major epidemic of TRT users or people living at high altitudes having heart attacks and strokes if it really was a major concern.

Donating will temporarily drop hemoglobin by a little but then it will come right back up to where it was.

In general, is very healthy for men in general to donate blood a couple of times a year for many reasons (mostly because it lowers iron and can detoxify blood) so we should do it anyway. I just did last week. However, if our ferritin gets too low, which is most likely will if we donate too much, then donating becomes a hazard to our health.

Thank you! to my luck my Doc is open for info, so when my hematocrit hit 56 i remove some blood my self and she test for platelets, platelet size and anti coagulations factor and if they are all good she sees no problem with a higher hematocrit or hemoglobin.

 

[pickapeck]

Couple things to consider before dismissing high hematocrit as benign. This means more blood volume with higher concentration of cell in circulation.

The smooth muscle of the vascular epithelium respond to androgens by gaining more tone and less able to perform peristaltic pumping motion. Most people don't know that the vasculature pumps like the heart does. This aids in circulation. So we with such high red cells do not circulate as efficiently whilst carrying thicker more volumous blood. So this is not something that happens to normal people living at altitude so that comparison is really not valid. Additionally, high hematocrit can be part of the health status that leads to hypertension and we know that is a problem over time. If you don't think this is so donate blood and watch your BP drop 2 days later.

 

[nothuman]

Couple things to consider before dismissing high hematocrit as benign. This means more blood volume with higher concentration of cell in circulation.

The smooth muscle of the vascular epithelium respond to androgens by gaining more tone and less able to perform peristaltic pumping motion. Most people don't know that the vasculature pumps like the heart does. This aids in circulation. So we with such high red cells do not circulate as efficiently whilst carrying thicker more volumous blood. So this is not something that happens to normal people living at altitude so that comparison is really not valid. Additionally, high hematocrit can be part of the health status that leads to hypertension and we know that is a problem over time. If you don't think this is so donate blood and watch your BP drop 2 days later.

The drop in BP could also be from dumping excess iron from our bodies

 

[Polska 2]

So you think it was only the Telmisartan that brought your RBC counts down or do you think the statin played a role too?

Not sure but I’ve heard of telemisartan doing it, have never heard of a statin having the same effect

 

[pickapeck]

The drop in BP could also be from dumping excess iron from our bodies

Maybe you would get to that point after chronic donations trying to stay on and lower hematocrit at the same time.

 

[Jay Walker]

Did it affect your iron/ferritin levels. I had similar experiences with losartan but it killed my iron levels.

 

[Polska 2]

Did it affect your iron/ferritin levels. I had similar experiences with losartan but it killed my iron levels.

Not as of now.

 

[jaxino]

Did it affect your iron/ferritin levels. I had similar experiences with losartan but it killed my iron levels.

What you did to solve the issue?

 

[Lumpi]

Telmisartan doesnt do much but Nebivolol in a higher dose lowers my erythrozyts, hemoglobin, hematocrit, ldl, uric acid, basically everything that's increased by steroids.

 

[whacked]

Telmisartan doesnt do much but Nebivolol in a higher dose lowers my erythrozyts, hemoglobin, hematocrit, ldl, uric acid, basically everything that's increased by steroids.

I thought I read that Nebivolol raises uric acid, not lowers it.

 

[Lumpi]

I thought I read that Nebivolol raises uric acid, not lowers it.

There's a couple studies showing a decrease in uric acid by nebivolol and even more by carvedilol (the effect was stronger with carvedilol).

Data of Nebivolol on oxidative stress parameters in hypertensive patients

Oxidative stress is a key feature in hypertension, since reactive oxygen species are involved in all stages of cardiovascular diseases. Saliva is a bo…

www.sciencedirect.com

From this paper, on the left is untreated, right is treated with nebivolol




I tested it myself and the effect on uric acid wasn't really worth it at 5mg, but was significant at a daily dose of 20mg nebivolol.

 

[whacked]

Good to know. Thanks for posting that.

I’m on 5mg/day and the research I did before taking it showed conflicting data on uric acid. It was very odd to me that there were two very contrasting views.

My doc gave me some ambiguous answer on this as well (I could tell he didn’t know), so I was stuck just monitoring for myself.

Mine has gone up a little bit but I’m still in range. That said, there is no telling what caused the uptick.

I was fasted when I took the test (as I was testing fasted insulin as well); so perhaps slightly dehydrated. I plan to retest. I’d prefer it to be lower.

I don’t eat fruit or fructose so that’s not it. I do however chew a crap-ton of sugar free gum (loaded w xylitol) and it may be due to this polyol-pathway being activated. I’m rather addicted to the stupid stuff lol.

 

[whacked]

I thought I read that Nebivolol raises uric acid, not lowers it.

So … I had some time to take a deeper dive into the research / reports on Nebivolol and my initial impression shared above, was renewed / corroborated.

However, for as many reports sharing a potential for increased Uric acid, there was one countering this and literally claiming the opposite.

Totally bizarre and the sources are generally considered respected (NIH, etc).

 

[Lumpi]

So … I had some time to take a deeper dive into the research / reports on Nebivolol and my initial impression shared above, was renewed / corroborated.

However, for as many reports sharing a potential for increased Uric acid, there was one countering this and literally claiming the opposite.

Totally bizarre and the sources are generally considered respected (NIH, etc).

I could show several bloodwork over the time of 18 months where I increased my nebivolol dose and had lower and lower uric acid readings. Not sure if that's going to help you with your thought process.

Canagliflozin/empagliflozin does have a significant impact on uric acid, too.

 

[whacked]

I could show several bloodwork over the time of 18 months where I increased my nebivolol dose and had lower and lower uric acid readings. Not sure if that's going to help you with your thought process.

Canagliflozin/empagliflozin does have a significant impact on uric acid, too.

I believe ya! Was just sharing the bizarre conflicts of info related to this medication for anyone who needs to be aware that’s all.