Why do people blame insulin for fat gain?

[Sully1234]

I know right?
How and why would the human body store fat when there is an energy deficit?

Saving for a rainy day.....these ARE THE FUCKING RAINY DAYS. ha ha ha ha

So how do you adjust macros on a rainy day?

 

[MR. BMJ]

This whole thread is bullshit!

Not one gdamn word about the Insulin Fairy!!!







For the sake of adding something constructive though, I agree with bboy and Pesty et al. Here is an article by Lyle McDonald explaining it all:

The Energy Balance Equation

The Energy Balance Equation examines the energy balance equation including reasons why the math never quite works out as expected.And why it is still valid.

bodyrecomposition.com

 

[Yousef12O2]

why some of the big guys are eating 6+ thousand calories a day and not gaining weight? are they burning 6k calories everyday or is it insulin sensitivity or poor digestion or something else?

 

[MR. BMJ]

why some of the big guys are eating 6+ thousand calories a day and not gaining weight? are they burning 6k calories everyday or is it insulin sensitivity or poor digestion or something else?

Some people have to eat more and some have to eat less. How active they are, HGH, AAS, genetics on not getting fat or how it is distributed, if they are even counting their macros/calories correctly or exaggerating their amounts, all play a factor. At some point (calories), as mentioned above, they will either gain or lose fat/weight though. Where that range of maintenance is at will vary person to person. Some of these guys grow and never get fat, just add size/muscle it seems. However, some may not show their true off-season pictures. This was notorious back in the 90's. People never seen pictures of a lot of the competitors in the off-season. However, even Dorian at his heaviest wasn't ever holding a lot of fat. He held a good bit of water though, which he lost pretty quickly in prep. I remember Duchaine mentioning that he thought Dorian never got above like 10% bodyfat...he mentioned the 10/10/10 scheme IIRC. Dorian mentioned that he started prep at like 12 weeks out and was ready by about 6 weeks out, at least in some of his interviews he mentions that. That means it only took him like 6 weeks to get show ready, then the final 6 weeks were cushion and small minutia.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

A while back ,in an Muscle and fitness DJ podcast, Milos say he doesn't use insulin because it's a pain in the ass. It can cause social interactions to not happen at all or having to end the interaction. On insulin got to sip shake and resistance exercise that muscle so talking can not hold up the process . I do like socializing with some people , and it is healthy to have pro social friends, people you see often ,somewhat often, or sometimes. That said, when it's time to train intense, it's business. .

@b-boy are your sets less than when two weeks ago, when five hundred mgs or more of anabolics were in your system?

10 mgs a day, for me , is okay. It definitely helps the cardiovascular system. Some days, you could go up to 12, 15, or 20, and get an extra boost, like maybe on body parts that could use the most advantage. I never lost much muscle on ten mgs, for maybe six weeks bc always would up to 20 mgs. Maybe didn't need to raise dose to 20 mgs, but then after, would do a blast

 

[bigzzz]

A while back ,in an Muscle and fitness DJ podcast, Milos say he doesn't use insulin because it's a pain in the ass. It can cause social interactions to not happen at all or having to end the interaction. On insulin got to sip shake and resistance exercise that muscle so talking can not hold up the process . I do like socializing with some people , and it is healthy to have pro social friends, people you see often ,somewhat often, or sometimes. That said, when it's time to train intense, it's business. .

@b-boy are your sets less than when two weeks ago, when five hundred mgs or more of anabolics were in your system?

10 mgs a day, for me , is okay. It definitely helps the cardiovascular system. Some days, you could go up to 12, 15, or 20, and get an extra boost, like maybe on body parts that could use the most advantage. I never lost much muscle on ten mgs, for maybe six weeks bc always would up to 20 mgs. Maybe didn't need to raise dose to 20 mgs, but then after, would do a blast

What? Milos is like the biggest fan of insulin in history lol.

 

[KillerStack]

Good question.

Another another good question is how or can one gain muscles on a caloric deficit?

Yes. It would have been interesting to see how Levrone's body changed during a prep. Was he in a deficit or surplus the whole prep? How much did the scale change in total, start to finish and then compare to calorie intake.

But there's another BIG problem. There was a paper, there's probably a slew of these, explain how 30 years of dieting research is almost useless because you can't ask people what they eat, it will all be faulty. This includes dieting experts, basically everyone. Well of course there are exceptions like on this forum but overall, it's simply not reliable, you have to lock people into a space where you can't smuggle in calories nor get rid of them.

My friend is a fat fuck. He explained his diet to me and I said, "that's about 2K calories yet you say you are gaining weight (almost 300lbs). And for example you didn't mention that 50 gram whey/100 gram shake you are drinking right now." "I forgot to mention that."

 

[alfresco]

Yes. It would have been interesting to see how Levrone's body changed during a prep. Was he in a deficit or surplus the whole prep? How much did the scale change in total, start to finish and then compare to calorie intake.

But there's another BIG problem. There was a paper, there's probably a slew of these, explain how 30 years of dieting research is almost useless because you can't ask people what they eat, it will all be faulty. This includes dieting experts, basically everyone. Well of course there are exceptions like on this forum but overall, it's simply not reliable, you have to lock people into a space where you can't smuggle in calories nor get rid of them.

My friend is a fat fuck. He explained his diet to me and I said, "that's about 2K calories yet you say you are gaining weight (almost 300lbs). And for example you didn't mention that 50 gram whey/100 gram shake you are drinking right now." "I forgot to mention that."

Not disagreeing with the common knowledge, am only relating my experience, a sample size of one.

My weight was stable . . . not gaining weight, not losing weight (stasis, which on the planet earth, an impossibility), all I did was add some Testosterone and all “hell done broke loose” . . . no in change diet or exercise, grew noticeably workout by workout before my very eyes which for me was an absolute miracle after more than 30 years of serious training. And if I had any fat on me it was between my ears.

 

[bbxtreme]

Not disagreeing with the common knowledge, am only relating my experience, a sample size of one.

My weight was stable . . . not gaining weight, not losing weight (stasis, which on the planet earth, an impossibility), all I did was add some Testosterone and all “hell done broke loose” . . . no in change diet or exercise, grew noticeably workout by workout before my very eyes which for me was an absolute miracle after more than 30 years of serious training. And if I had any fat on me it was between my ears.

Body recomposition at its finest by putting your body into a more anabolic state.

 

[alfresco]

Body recomposition at its finest by putting your body into a more anabolic state.

Please explain that to my simple mind. Serious. Thank you.

 

[Type-IIx]

While the insulin hypothesis is insufficiently explanatory wrt fat gain and energy balance controls, insulin does suppress fat oxidation and block hormone-sensitive lipase. Justin Harris' attempted explanation, despite being delivered wearing glasses, about how exogenous insulin actually enhances fat loss (it doesn't) breaks down under basic scrutiny.

From https://thinksteroids.com/articles/insulin-promotes-skeletal-muscle-hypertrophy/

“Insulin enhances dieting by directing energy to muscle protein synthesis via glycogen synthesis and storage rather than to fat storage in an energy deficit because fat storage is impossible in a deficit”​

False:

This claim, often used to promote the practice of slin use during dieting and contest prep, suggests that insulin promotes glycogen storage, and therefore in a state of energy deficit, during its activity peri- workout, slin conserves energy (proceeding from some rudimentary view of conservation of energy), and energy that would otherwise be stored as fat cells is instead dedicated to storage as glycogen and, by this argument’s facile logic, muscle protein.

It cannot be true that insulin use during an energy deficit (dieting) on the one hand (A) cannot synthesize new fat for storage (lipogenesis) & (B) can synthesize new glycogen stores (glycogenesis) and/or new muscle protein (amino acid synthesis/muscle protein synthesis).

Indeed, during caloric restriction, catabolic processes are those pathways directed towards by metabolism; and while slin may not, as an anabolic reaction, induce lipogenesis; it can certainly suppress β-oxidation (fat oxidation) as well as inactivate hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity, down-regulating mobilization of triglycerides within adipocytes) [26] [28], which it does.

 

[bbxtreme]

Please explain that to my simple mind. Serious. Thank you.

In the most simplistic terms I can think of, you increased testosterone and your body’s anabolic state.

This led to an increase of muscle size and fullness. So you moved from less body fat to more muscle, thus the term recomposition. Muscle burns or utilizes more energy than fat.

If I’m 220 pounds on 300mg of test and 2-4 units of HGH for 12 weeks (a rough example of a cruise), then move to 1000mg of test and 10 units of HGH (back on a cycle) and change no calories/activity levels I will look completely different. Lower BF, fuller muscles and likely a gain in muscle.

Myself and others could dive in much deeper, but trying to keep it simple.

Hope this helps.

 

[bbxtreme]

While the insulin hypothesis is insufficiently explanatory wrt fat gain and energy balance controls, insulin does suppress fat oxidation and block hormone-sensitive lipase. Justin Harris' attempted explanation, despite being delivered wearing glasses, about how exogenous insulin actually enhances fat loss (it doesn't) breaks down under basic scrutiny.

From https://thinksteroids.com/articles/insulin-promotes-skeletal-muscle-hypertrophy/

“Insulin enhances dieting by directing energy to muscle protein synthesis via glycogen synthesis and storage rather than to fat storage in an energy deficit because fat storage is impossible in a deficit”​

False:

This claim, often used to promote the practice of slin use during dieting and contest prep, suggests that insulin promotes glycogen storage, and therefore in a state of energy deficit, during its activity peri- workout, slin conserves energy (proceeding from some rudimentary view of conservation of energy), and energy that would otherwise be stored as fat cells is instead dedicated to storage as glycogen and, by this argument’s facile logic, muscle protein.

It cannot be true that insulin use during an energy deficit (dieting) on the one hand (A) cannot synthesize new fat for storage (lipogenesis) & (B) can synthesize new glycogen stores (glycogenesis) and/or new muscle protein (amino acid synthesis/muscle protein synthesis).

Indeed, during caloric restriction, catabolic processes are those pathways directed towards by metabolism; and while slin may not, as an anabolic reaction, induce lipogenesis; it can certainly suppress β-oxidation (fat oxidation) as well as inactivate hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity, down-regulating mobilization of triglycerides within adipocytes) [26] [28], which it does.

Love your post on here as you always back with citations.

Question- do you think fat selection has any bearing on this- saturated fats vs mono. I.e. oils/almond butter vs a ribeye (as someone mentioned earlier).

I personally believe how we (bodybuilders diet) that it wouldn’t be impactful as we calorie cycle. But know long term saturated fats (ribeye example) can increase insulin resistance.

Just curious your take on it.

 

[alfresco]

In the most simplistic terms I can think of, you increased testosterone and your body’s anabolic state.

This led to an increase of muscle size and fullness. So you moved from less body fat to more muscle, thus the term recomposition. Muscle burns or utilizes more energy than fat.

If I’m 220 pounds on 300mg of test and 2-4 units of HGH for 12 weeks (a rough example of a cruise), then move to 1000mg of test and 10 units of HGH (back on a cycle) and change no calories/activity levels I will look completely different. Lower BF, fuller muscles and likely a gain in muscle.

Myself and others could dive in much deeper, but trying to keep it simple.

Hope this helps.

You did. I get it. Thanks for that

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

What? Milos is like the biggest fan of insulin in history lol.

This was a couple months ago ,on the Dennis James video calls with Chris Cormier. He's talking about him now at 59 years old not using it.

Milos brought insulin to bodybuilding so he really is the history of insulin, in bodybuilding

 

[b-boy]

Yes. It would have been interesting to see how Levrone's body changed during a prep. Was he in a deficit or surplus the whole prep? How much did the scale change in total, start to finish and then compare to calorie intake.

But there's another BIG problem. There was a paper, there's probably a slew of these, explain how 30 years of dieting research is almost useless because you can't ask people what they eat, it will all be faulty. This includes dieting experts, basically everyone. Well of course there are exceptions like on this forum but overall, it's simply not reliable, you have to lock people into a space where you can't smuggle in calories nor get rid of them.

My friend is a fat fuck. He explained his diet to me and I said, "that's about 2K calories yet you say you are gaining weight (almost 300lbs). And for example you didn't mention that 50 gram whey/100 gram shake you are drinking right now." "I forgot to mention that."

There are plenty of nutrition studies done in metabolic wards where only access to food is what they provide you with.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

There are plenty of nutrition studies done in metabolic wards where only access to food is what they provide you with.

Yeah nutrition research has come a long way. Even some where output is monitored alongside their intake.

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

So are you saying that during a diet when im in a 500 calorie deficit daily that I will get fat if I eat peanutbutter when taking my insulin???

If I'm in a daily calorie deficit my body will burn more fat than it stores, exogenous insulin or not.

You didn't read my post b-boy. You and I both know what happens when you're in a calorie deficient diet. I quoted in my post "So you have to be careful on what kind of diet you are on".

 

[275bills]

Using insulin gave me gonorrhea

 

[qbkilla]

While the insulin hypothesis is insufficiently explanatory wrt fat gain and energy balance controls, insulin does suppress fat oxidation and block hormone-sensitive lipase. Justin Harris' attempted explanation, despite being delivered wearing glasses, about how exogenous insulin actually enhances fat loss (it doesn't) breaks down under basic scrutiny.

From https://thinksteroids.com/articles/insulin-promotes-skeletal-muscle-hypertrophy/

“Insulin enhances dieting by directing energy to muscle protein synthesis via glycogen synthesis and storage rather than to fat storage in an energy deficit because fat storage is impossible in a deficit”​

False:

This claim, often used to promote the practice of slin use during dieting and contest prep, suggests that insulin promotes glycogen storage, and therefore in a state of energy deficit, during its activity peri- workout, slin conserves energy (proceeding from some rudimentary view of conservation of energy), and energy that would otherwise be stored as fat cells is instead dedicated to storage as glycogen and, by this argument’s facile logic, muscle protein.

It cannot be true that insulin use during an energy deficit (dieting) on the one hand (A) cannot synthesize new fat for storage (lipogenesis) & (B) can synthesize new glycogen stores (glycogenesis) and/or new muscle protein (amino acid synthesis/muscle protein synthesis).

Indeed, during caloric restriction, catabolic processes are those pathways directed towards by metabolism; and while slin may not, as an anabolic reaction, induce lipogenesis; it can certainly suppress β-oxidation (fat oxidation) as well as inactivate hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity, down-regulating mobilization of triglycerides within adipocytes) [26] [28], which it does.

This is what I'm wondering. Supposedly insulin makes it hard for fat burning to occur, yet many take it pre cardio a few IU with fasted cardio to burn extra fat.

Is it helping or actually hurting? With us all knowing cico is $1 this seems like an advanced strategy for people trying to get the last but of fat off