Why I think

[Athlete]

are there more ways to lower your hematocrit than donating blood? i can't do it that way.

 

[the_warrior]

^^

Personally I prefer knife fights for the excitement

 

[Massive G]

are there more ways to lower your hematocrit than donating blood? i can't do it that way.

Time off.

The only other medical treatment I know of for people with high hematocrits from the disease (polycythemia vera) are drugs used to shut down the bone marrow. Yikes.

 

[KillerStack]

I really have no idea what Emeric is driving at in his original post. I know Phil has said Deca reduces gains also.

To those who say they agree with Emeric: will you from now on only use testosterone? Also, could you explain what Emeric means? He's not just saying Test is best - he's saying adding Deca is bad.

Although there isn't much if any research on stacking steroids there's a pretty good theoretical foundation for doing so (for best gains). First, different steroids activate different genes having to do with muscle growth. Different steroids, such as Deca, are good at increasing muscle derived IGF-1. And so on.

 

[angel]

If ya'll could read you would see he says FOR YOUNGER ATHLETES this is true.

How about for older ones, Emeric? I am 54 and do a lower dose regimen.

ANGEL

 

[thebrick]

If ya'll could read you would see he says FOR YOUNGER ATHLETES this is true.

How about for older ones, Emeric? I am 54 and do a lower dose regimen.

ANGEL

Exactly. I'm 55 and worry about testosterone only regimens degrading tendons over time, increasing the possibility of injuries.

 

[Quad-smack]

There are other compounds that have an EQual or better effect of increasing collagen (proline & hydroxy-proline) synthesis in the tendons / ligaments and are not as suppressive as 19-Nortestosterone.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I really have no idea what Emeric is driving at in his original post. I know Phil has said Deca reduces gains also.

To those who say they agree with Emeric: will you from now on only use testosterone? Also, could you explain what Emeric means? He's not just saying Test is best - he's saying adding Deca is bad.

Although there isn't much if any research on stacking steroids there's a pretty good theoretical foundation for doing so (for best gains). First, different steroids activate different genes having to do with muscle growth. Different steroids, such as Deca, are good at increasing muscle derived IGF-1. And so on.

Im not saying decca does not have benefits, but I don't see why it needs to be applied to a non anemic person. I realize most of you stack decca with your cycle because of joints and YES the pain does go away and here is the reason....joint pain occurs because injecting testosterone causes the body to produce abnormal amounts of collagen. Collagen is a white gelatin substance that forms the tendon fibers. Testosterone the reduces the tencile strength of the newly formed collagen until much of the tendon has been weakened.

ex: 1 big lift and the tendon is gone

On low doses of testosterone your body does not produce the abnormal levels of collagen. Taking higher doses of testosterone causes the body to produce these high levels of collagen.

Bottom line, by taking decca it doesnt help the tendons and joints directly, it lowers the collagen production caused by the high doses of testosterone and iterfears with androgen receptors.

 

[manboy270]

vitamin-T

I've always just used androgens-usually 1-1.5 g of T/week-occassionally using less and adding D or TA. I only use once per year(June through August) and most recently tried 600 Tc and 600 Deca/ week-all that was available. My training and diet were very consistent(always are when "on") but this was the best cycle I've ever done and I have no explanation? I hit an all-time high 293(6')for the first time ever @ no more than 12% bf and my arms are finally 21" without being full of oil. I started at a sloppy 257. One caveat--about a month after stopping I developed some acne on my lower-mid back. This has NEVER happened to me before and sucks ass. It's just starting to subside....

 

[Blade_HST]

HRT dosages are commonly prescribed around 150-200mg/week, for a good reason as you will see here:

**broken link removed**

125mg/week puts you straight in the middle of the "normal" range whereas 300mg/week puts you a little over the highest normal range.

I do agree about testosterone being the better AAS, as the late Karl Hoffmann aka Nandi12 over at CEM showed in this article:

**broken link removed**

testosterone activates the highest number of so-called androgen response elements and thus, sends the better signal for muscle growth.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Emeric, what about compounds whose benefits do not appear to be androgen receptor mediated? Like you, I always have felt that stacking two compounds that act directly on the androgen receptor to be a waste but what about stacking androgens like test or tren with anabolics like EQ or drol?

If you wanted to maximize muscle growth through every pathway possible that is.

 

[Swifto]

Emeric, what about compounds whose benefits do not appear to be androgen receptor mediated? Like you, I always have felt that stacking two compounds that act directly on the androgen receptor to be a waste but what about stacking androgens like test or tren with anabolics like EQ or drol?

If you wanted to maximize muscle growth through every pathway possible that is.

It seems the best gains come from mixing the 3 familly's of androgens (Test, DHT and 19-Nor derived AS) and mxing AR mediated and non-AR mediated androgens. Hitting the ball from every angle, not just one.

 

[KillerStack]

Emeric, what about compounds whose benefits do not appear to be androgen receptor mediated? Like you, I always have felt that stacking two compounds that act directly on the androgen receptor to be a waste but what about stacking androgens like test or tren with anabolics like EQ or drol?

If you wanted to maximize muscle growth through every pathway possible that is.

Even steroids with poor binding ability are probably exerting most of their actions through the AR. That article Blade linked to really is wonderful, I've linked to it several times here.

the structures of androgen responsive genes vary in such a way that some genes are more readily activated by certain androgens than by others. The set of genes readily switched on by a given androgen determines the net physiological effect of that androgen. This theory readily explains how an anabolic steroid like oxandrolone, whose AR binding affinity is quite low, can be so anabolic: it happens to preferentially turn on genes whose products promote skeletal muscle anabolism, while failing to activate genes which promote virilization.

 

[GoneForever]

The more people ive talked to lately are getting much better results off lower aas doses and higher peptide doses. Example a good bro of mine was a very heavy aas user. 1500mg test,1000mg tren,etc.. He dropped everything to 750mg test and 500mg deca with 15iu's Gh 3x per week and a little slin. He has looked far better than ever in the past. I wonder if sticking with just test and upping peptides like gh,igf,etc... will be of benefit.

 

[The Striated One]

Bottom line..................Emeric is 56 and still in great shape. How many 56 year old retired bodybuilders are still in good shape, have both kidneys?, alive?, and are still training seriously???


I think he speaking about our longevity in the sport and is asking us what the fuck are we really gaining (long term) by taking this shit

just my 2 cents

 

[emeric delczeg]

My take on all this (and I'm not trying to put words in Emeric's
mouth) is . . . while many are trying to figure out what the
maximum amount of steroids they can consume and still
survive and not be a walking corpse, he is very scientifically
trying to ascertain what the minimum amount is required
to maximize gains.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I think his philosophy is the
same when it comes to training. And much like Phil (from what
I have read, and I read everything they both write), they are
trying to understand what the minimum amount of training and
steroids is required to stimulate and provide a positive environment
for muscular growth.

We all can, and do to some extent, tolerate much more drugs
and training than we actually need, that which is beneficial. But
why do more when you can get by with less?

Doing more of anything can and sometimes does, place an un-
necessary burden on the body and can actually be counter productive.

You need to find a balance, and sometimes it is a delicate one.
Hard to find and monitor yes, but the results you get from following
their advice speaks for itself as many on this board have testified.

Exactly.


My Intent writing this post was not to cause any contraversy and I am not trying to tell anybody reading this what to take or why to take it or how to maximize your gains, I just want to give a heads up to the younger, up and coming bodybuilders that life can be great after 50 ( and healthy ) because someday you will be my age and more concsious of your health.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Hmmmm... I find this a very interesting theory. Do you feel all nandrolones to be of little value when taking testosterone?

Well, nadrolones can cause erectical dysfunction, the erectical dysfunction is attributed to the weaker action of dihydronadrolone in the penis.

 

[confuzed_guy2000]

Well, nadrolones can cause erectical dysfunction, the erectical dysfunction is attributed to the weaker action of dihydronadrolone in the penis.

Sexual dysfunction is a given, that is why we have been told to stack the nandrolone with testosterone - to offset side effects such as these.

But looking at the nandrolone from another angle, is nandrolone not effective in contributing to a positive nitrogen balance thereby contributing to an anabolic effect? I realize that testosterone also contributes to this positive nitrogen balance but is it to the same (or higher) degree?

Also, what about trenbolone? Trenbolone is a derivative of nandrolone. Would trenbolone be inclusive in this theory as well?

 

[emeric delczeg]

Sexual dysfunction is a given, that is why we have been told to stack the nandrolone with testosterone - to offset side effects such as these.

But looking at the nandrolone from another angle, is nandrolone not effective in contributing to a positive nitrogen balance thereby contributing to an anabolic effect? I realize that testosterone also contributes to this positive nitrogen balance but is it to the same (or higher) degree?

Also, what about trenbolone? Trenbolone is a derivative of nandrolone. Would trenbolone be inclusive in this theory as well?

Trenbolone is a diferent story. Trenbolone have a binding affinity for the androgen receptore 3 times as high as the testosteron. It doze not cauze erectical dyfunction, but it lowers the libido.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Trenbolone

The kidney toxicity has not yet been proven. However some times the urine get rust colored by oxidized metabolites of trenbolone which are excreted in the urine and often mistaken for blood. Has few side effects the 2 that I don`t like is insomnia and high blood pressure.

I would not stack trenbolone with any other AAS.