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Insulin - how low does it drop blood sugar?

Jizzmo

New member
Kilo Klub Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,641
Hey guys,
i recently started experimenting with insulin, decided to go with Novolog/Novorapid and the 10iu pre workout protocol, so 2 days ago I shot 10iu, waited about 20mins, had a big shake (40g whey, skim milk, dextrose for a total of 60g carbs), went to the gym, had the same shake about 60min after the first one.

Pumps were good, strength was up a bit and i noticed increased sweating, however nothing of the "insane" pumps, veins etc people claim to get.

What made me wonder is that I didnt feel the slightest bit of hypo even though I went with relatively little carbs, even though my insulin sensitivity should be very high, since fasting blood sugar in the morning is usually very low, around 75 on average.

Ive read numerous times that people claim to go hypo within 10mins of a rapid acting slin shot etc, so I was wondering.

Today I decided to test how far insulin actually lowers my blood sugar.
When i woke up (8am) my fasting BS was 71 (this was 13 hours after my last meal).
At 9:15 i shot 5iu of Novolog, (i had a dextrose shake ready just in case hypo would onset too quickly. i didnt drink it) BS was 68.
At 10:00 (45mins post shot) BS was still 68. still fasting.
At 10:20 it went to 59, 10:35 it was 60 and 10:55 it was 59.
11:00 i ate a meal of 60g protein, 125g carbs, 10g fat (white and whole wheat toast with ketchup and ham)
It is 11:20 right now and my BS is 99 right now.
Ill continue testing for the next hour.
:confused:

So 5iu Novolog actually only lowered my blood sugar by about 10 points over a 2 hour period.
Not exactly what I expected when people claim "youll instantly die if you dont pump yourself full of dextrose after a slin shot bro!"

Any explanations for that?
Im on Test, tren, adex, t3, nothing else. I know that t3 can cause slight insulin insensitivity, however since my fasting blood sugar is pretty low I wouldve guessed that my insulin sensitivity is good.


Btw, Diabetes runs in my family. My grandma uses 32iu human insulin 4 times A DAY plus 50iu lantus and her blood sugar is STILL above 250 at pretty much all times (her doctors dont seem to have a clue at all).

Maybe a genetic defect runs in my family that prevents insulin from lowering blood sugar drastically? Or did my body balance out blood sugar via gluconeogenesis before hypo symptons could occur? Maybe my insulin has just gone bad (I doubt that though, bought it a week ago and stored it in the fridge before using).
Anyone with a clue/ideas?

Im really baffled right now and dont know what the hell is going on to be honest.


I know that this experiment was "dangerous", but I was prepared for any possible hypo onset, buddy knew what I was doing, had sugary drinks ready etc. So no indoctrinations please.
 
Last edited:
11:45 blood sugar has risen to 149
12:15 it is back down to 71
 
11:45 blood sugar has risen to 149
12:15 it is back down to 71

13:00 it is 100... maybe reactive hypoglycemia about 1 hour after eating?

what im really baffled about is that 1iu is supposed to lower blood sugar by about 40 whereas it practically did nothing for me

sorry for the 3 posts but cant edit my posts
 
Might seem like an obvious question but is that insulin fresh from the pharmacy? Is it a vial or pen?
 
it is a penfill cartridge, however i drew with an insulin syringe from it

by the way. todays pre workout shot hit me like a freight train...
i shot 10iu (well actually more like 12iu because of the spare room in the syringe)... just like the first pre workout shot i waited about 45mins... well actually i ate after about 35-40min when i shot the first time 2 days ago...
so this time i waited about 45min, then suddenly i got very dizzy and started shaking and sweating. from my 5iu morning shot and blood glucose measurements i was pretty sure that insulin takes about 45-60mins to hit me, but with the 12 iu it hit me hard after exactly 45mins... and it was 6 hours after the morning shot so that one was definitely out of my system
i had my dextrose shake ready next to me already, so i quickly checked blood glucose and it was 37 ! holy shit, close to coma i guess.

i didnt measure beforehand but i usually have a blood sugar of 80-100 after not eating for 3 hours

so how the HELL can 5iu barely move my blood glucose down by 10 points but 12i wreck it down 50 or 60 points?

in the morning you should actually be MORE insulin sensitive so i wouldve guessed that a morning shot would hit harder than a pre workout shot. maybe because cortisol is higher in the morning gluconeogenesis balances out blood sugar?

or maybe theres an absorption issue?
i shot exactly the same way i always shoot subQ though...

long story shot i instantly chugged my shake and had a few sweets additionally, hit the gym, workout was good, no hypo whatsoever... just seem to cramp a little easier (maybe coincidence)

ill try to figure out how the hell this can happen, im really completely clueless right now.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. The reason I ask is because the pens don't seem to last as long and seem to deteriorate quick after initial use, even refrigerated.

But... That doesn't explain why the second dose hit you so hard.

Curious what you figure out.
 
so today i went with 12iu pre workout again... i actually just pinned 50mins ago, gonna hit the gym now.
blood sugar was 83 when i pinned (actually hadnt eaten for 5 hours due to girlfriend), 30mins later it was down to 70, 40mins later it was down to 59 (thats the mark where i start to feel a bit weird). so to avoid going hypo as i did yesterday i had my shake and now im gonna hit the gym...

it seems like slin really only hits me upwards of 10iu, but i dont know the theory behind that.

btw i think a HUGE mistake MOST people do is to shoot slin and INSTANTLY drink a shake with dextrose... at least for me slin takes a GOOD 30mins to even begin lowering blood sugar... but dextrose hits the blood within FIVE MINUTES...
if you have a shake instantly with your slin shot then what happens? huge amount of dextrose hits the blood, your body pumps out endogenous insulin, within 20-30mins you actually have a ton of endogenous insulin floating around and lowering blood sugar, but THEN the exogenous slin starts working, when the dextrose has actually started to clear from the blood already. BOOM hypo.
maybe thats where the misconception that you need lots of carbs with slin comes from?
i dont know, but nearly every protocol suggest that you need to eat/drink a shake within 5-10mins of slin use...

thats just plain wrong imo. it may work for complete meals or low GI carbs, but dextrose? no fkin way... dextrose hits the blood so fast that you can actually wait until you start to go hypo and THEN consume the dextrose.

just 10 mins after my shake my BS is already up at 75 again. of course its gonna rise even higher over the next 30mins, but yeah, dextrose hits within 5mins, while slin takes a good 40mins to work for me.
 
Last edited:
LOL at 10 IU killing anyone under any circumstances.

You didn't get insane pumps because you used only 10 IU one single time. The pumps from insulin are the result of not only increased blood flow, but primarily from glycogen super-compensation. When your muscle are loaded with carbs (and therefore water), you feel super pumped all the time, so getting an actual gym pump on top of that just makes it more crazy.

However, you will need to use more than 10 IU, you will need to use it for a few weeks at every workout, and you will need to eat better.

Dextrose is garbage. Stop eating it. You wouldn't sit down to eat a bowl of dextrose for one of your normal meal, would you? So why are you doing it with insulin? Insulin's main job is to transport nutrients, so all you are doing with dextrose is transporting an ass-load of dextrose. Insulin magnifies the results of everything you eat, so if you normally don't get good results eating straight dextrose, why would you expect to get good results now?

Why not transport something more useful, like a big-ass whole-food meal containing a bunch of complex carbs and protein? That is something that you can put to good use.

Now, if you are doing pre-workout slin only, then something like branched cyclic dextrins & hydrolyzed protein is good...or some people prefer other high molecular weight complex carbs, like Vitargo or Karbolyn, along with hydrolyzed protein. Either of those is much better than shitty dextrose.

Also, if you are using a short-acting slin like humalog, why not do one injection pre-training and another one right after? With the pre-training inject you can have one of the shakes recommended above...and with the post-training inject you can have a big whole food meal. You will be far better off doing that than what you are doing now.

I am assuming your goal is muscle gain, so remember, when eating carbs with slin, the goal is not to take in the smallest amount of carbs possible. That defeats the entire purpose of using insulin in the first place. Rather, you should eat all the carbs your body requires to maximize recovery and growth.
 
so today i went with 12iu pre workout again... i actually just pinned 50mins ago, gonna hit the gym now.
blood sugar was 83 when i pinned (actually hadnt eaten for 5 hours due to girlfriend), 30mins later it was down to 70, 40mins later it was down to 59 (thats the mark where i start to feel a bit weird). so to avoid going hypo as i did yesterday i had my shake and now im gonna hit the gym...

it seems like slin really only hits me upwards of 10iu, but i dont know the theory behind that.

btw i think a HUGE mistake MOST people do is to shoot slin and INSTANTLY drink a shake with dextrose... at least for me slin takes a GOOD 30mins to even begin lowering blood sugar... but dextrose hits the blood within FIVE MINUTES...
if you have a shake instantly with your slin shot then what happens? huge amount of dextrose hits the blood, your body pumps out endogenous insulin, within 20-30mins you actually have a ton of endogenous insulin floating around and lowering blood sugar, but THEN the exogenous slin starts working, when the dextrose has actually started to clear from the blood already. BOOM hypo.
maybe thats where the misconception that you need lots of carbs with slin comes from?
i dont know, but nearly every protocol suggest that you need to eat/drink a shake within 5-10mins of slin use...

thats just plain wrong imo. it may work for complete meals or low GI carbs, but dextrose? no fkin way... dextrose hits the blood so fast that you can actually wait until you start to go hypo and THEN consume the dextrose.

just 10 mins after my shake my BS is already up at 75 again. of course its gonna rise even higher over the next 30mins, but yeah, dextrose hits within 5mins, while slin takes a good 40mins to work for me.

Thanks for sharing this.

I think everyone is different, could be based on family history or other factors.

One thing is for sure- anyone who wants to start "experimenting" with slin should have a blood glucose meter on hand and be testing frequently as you outlined.

Using a protocol that someone has outlined and applying it in could be a recipe for disaster. Everyone is different.
 
i am wondering why at your age, and your size, you are using insulin man?

you have me concerned about you..........
 
so today i went with 12iu pre workout again... i actually just pinned 50mins ago, gonna hit the gym now.
blood sugar was 83 when i pinned (actually hadnt eaten for 5 hours due to girlfriend), 30mins later it was down to 70, 40mins later it was down to 59 (thats the mark where i start to feel a bit weird). so to avoid going hypo as i did yesterday i had my shake and now im gonna hit the gym...

it seems like slin really only hits me upwards of 10iu, but i dont know the theory behind that.

btw i think a HUGE mistake MOST people do is to shoot slin and INSTANTLY drink a shake with dextrose... at least for me slin takes a GOOD 30mins to even begin lowering blood sugar... but dextrose hits the blood within FIVE MINUTES...
if you have a shake instantly with your slin shot then what happens? huge amount of dextrose hits the blood, your body pumps out endogenous insulin, within 20-30mins you actually have a ton of endogenous insulin floating around and lowering blood sugar, but THEN the exogenous slin starts working, when the dextrose has actually started to clear from the blood already. BOOM hypo.
maybe thats where the misconception that you need lots of carbs with slin comes from?
i dont know, but nearly every protocol suggest that you need to eat/drink a shake within 5-10mins of slin use...

thats just plain wrong imo. it may work for complete meals or low GI carbs, but dextrose? no fkin way... dextrose hits the blood so fast that you can actually wait until you start to go hypo and THEN consume the dextrose.

just 10 mins after my shake my BS is already up at 75 again. of course its gonna rise even higher over the next 30mins, but yeah, dextrose hits within 5mins, while slin takes a good 40mins to work for me.

Fast slin works immediately--within minutes--you just don't feel it right away because your bloodstream already has enough blood glucose floating around to deal with it.

However, you are missing the entire point of using insulin for mass-building. Using slin and not eating is senseless. The reason we use pre-workout slin is to transport the RIGHT nutrients at the RIGHT times to the working muscles---not wait until you go hypo an hour later and then drink some amino-acid-less dextrose.

There is no point is using slin if you entire goal is to see how little you can eat and how long you can go without eating. In that case, why use it?

Using slin in this fashion, well, I wouldn't expect much.
 
Mike - thanks for that reply... Its extremely obvious that many of these guys are screwjng with things they have no business or even a need for... But the bro-science says do it so they are good
 
Mike - thanks for that reply... Its extremely obvious that many of these guys are screwjng with things they have no business or even a need for... But the bro-science says do it so they are good

I am thinking the same exact thing. there is a reason why bodybuilders Progress with the PEDs...........understanding your body!!!
 
LOL at 10 IU killing anyone under any circumstances.

You didn't get insane pumps because you used only 10 IU one single time. The pumps from insulin are the result of not only increased blood flow, but primarily from glycogen super-compensation. When your muscle are loaded with carbs (and therefore water), you feel super pumped all the time, so getting an actual gym pump on top of that just makes it more crazy.

However, you will need to use more than 10 IU, you will need to use it for a few weeks at every workout, and you will need to eat better.

Dextrose is garbage. Stop eating it. You wouldn't sit down to eat a bowl of dextrose for one of your normal meal, would you? So why are you doing it with insulin? Insulin's main job is to transport nutrients, so all you are doing with dextrose is transporting an ass-load of dextrose. Insulin magnifies the results of everything you eat, so if you normally don't get good results eating straight dextrose, why would you expect to get good results now?

Why not transport something more useful, like a big-ass whole-food meal containing a bunch of complex carbs and protein? That is something that you can put to good use.

Now, if you are doing pre-workout slin only, then something like branched cyclic dextrins & hydrolyzed protein is good...or some people prefer other high molecular weight complex carbs, like Vitargo or Karbolyn, along with hydrolyzed protein. Either of those is much better than shitty dextrose.

Also, if you are using a short-acting slin like humalog, why not do one injection pre-training and another one right after? With the pre-training inject you can have one of the shakes recommended above...and with the post-training inject you can have a big whole food meal. You will be far better off doing that than what you are doing now.

I am assuming your goal is muscle gain, so remember, when eating carbs with slin, the goal is not to take in the smallest amount of carbs possible. That defeats the entire purpose of using insulin in the first place. Rather, you should eat all the carbs your body requires to maximize recovery and growth.

thanks for sharing!
first of all i probably fell into a lot of broscience stories regarding insulin... people claiming "5iu humalog pre workout gave me the most insane pumps ever"... well it seems like their 200g sugar intra workout shakes are what gave them these pumps, not the insulin.

im using insulin for the anticatabolic purposes, thats why i run it preworkout only.
not for the glycogen refilling properties post workout. ive seen studies that claim insulin needs to be dosed in huge amounts for actual anabolism to occur, while it is decently anticatabolic in very small amounts already.

and i know youre a guru on that, but i dont agree on the carbohydrate sources you mention AT ALL. why would i use complex carbohydrates with a rapid acting insulin that lowers blood sugar quickly?
ALL carbohydrates get broked down into monosaccharides anyway. so why should i not just use straight dextrose then?

imo the big advantage of complex carbohydrates is the slow and steady blood sugar (and therefore insulin) release.
when i use a rapidly peaking exogenous insulin, complex carbohydrates provide zero benefit imo.
maybe >50g dextrose is too much at once for any amount of insulin to shuttle and youre better off adding some slower carbs then, but since im not doing that (my shakes are about 500ml skim milk, whey and 30-40g dextrose so thats about 50-60g carbs). i feel perfectly fine with that amount of dextrose. no GI stress either.

the ONLY advantage of all that fancy vitargo, cyclic dextrins stuff is low osmolarity, meaning quicker absorption and less stomach stress. i dont get stomach stress from dextrose though.
dextrose and whey give me ZERO stomach issues, so im not paying 5x as much for the newest fancy products.
its just like buying lactose free milk when youre perfectly fine with lactose. pointless imo.

i am wondering why at your age, and your size, you are using insulin man?

you have me concerned about you..........

i like testing stuff myself. its more about where you want to end up, not where you are... im 5'8 180lbs at a true 8% bf... ive seen people with 20lbs less lean mass running slin cycles. ive also seen people with 20lbs MORE lean mass being completely clueless. i obviously know how to use insulin safely, so why should i not ;)
 
thanks for sharing!
first of all i probably fell into a lot of broscience stories regarding insulin... people claiming "5iu humalog pre workout gave me the most insane pumps ever"... well it seems like their 200g sugar intra workout shakes are what gave them these pumps, not the insulin.

im using insulin for the anticatabolic purposes, thats why i run it preworkout only.
not for the glycogen refilling properties post workout. ive seen studies that claim insulin needs to be dosed in huge amounts for actual anabolism to occur, while it is decently anticatabolic in very small amounts already.

and i know youre a guru on that, but i dont agree on the carbohydrate sources you mention AT ALL. why would i use complex carbohydrates with a rapid acting insulin that lowers blood sugar quickly?
ALL carbohydrates get broked down into monosaccharides anyway. so why should i not just use straight dextrose then?

imo the big advantage of complex carbohydrates is the slow and steady blood sugar (and therefore insulin) release.
when i use a rapidly peaking exogenous insulin, complex carbohydrates provide zero benefit imo.
maybe >50g dextrose is too much at once for any amount of insulin to shuttle and youre better off adding some slower carbs then, but since im not doing that (my shakes are about 500ml skim milk, whey and 30-40g dextrose so thats about 50-60g carbs). i feel perfectly fine with that amount of dextrose. no GI stress either.

the ONLY advantage of all that fancy vitargo, cyclic dextrins stuff is low osmolarity, meaning quicker absorption and less stomach stress. i dont get stomach stress from dextrose though.
dextrose and whey give me ZERO stomach issues, so im not paying 5x as much for the newest fancy products.
its just like buying lactose free milk when youre perfectly fine with lactose. pointless imo.



i like testing stuff myself. its more about where you want to end up, not where you are... im 5'8 180lbs at a true 8% bf... ive seen people with 20lbs less lean mass running slin cycles. ive also seen people with 20lbs MORE lean mass being completely clueless. i obviously know how to use insulin safely, so why should i not ;)

you drive me nuts bro!!! LOL

just stick to one thing for god's sake man!!! ;)
 
Fast slin works immediately--within minutes--you just don't feel it right away because your bloodstream already has enough blood glucose floating around to deal with it.

However, you are missing the entire point of using insulin for mass-building. Using slin and not eating is senseless. The reason we use pre-workout slin is to transport the RIGHT nutrients at the RIGHT times to the working muscles---not wait until you go hypo an hour later and then drink some amino-acid-less dextrose.

There is no point is using slin if you entire goal is to see how little you can eat and how long you can go without eating. In that case, why use it?

Using slin in this fashion, well, I wouldn't expect much.

i used the test with 5iu to assess myself how fast insulin works.

NEVER did i say that it is useful to not eat with insulin. obviously its retarded.
i did that for TESTING purposes.

in my opinion its retarded to have a fast acting carbohydrate immediately with an insulin injection when insulin only begins working after 30 minutes - at least for me. i use dextrose, so thats why. with slow carbs its obviously different.

insulin does NOTHING within the first 20 minutes of injecting for me. nothing.
my blood sugar starts to go down at the 25-30 minute mark.

between 30-40mins it "hits" and at 45 mins i need to have my shake in. ive got that figured out for me. my fingers are blue from all the blood sugar testing, but it was worth it, since the standard protocols would obviously NOT work for me. maybe it works differently for you, but for me it works this way.

and obviously my shakes contain whey aswell :rolleyes:
otherwise i wouldve said dextrose water and not SHAKE.
i just didnt mention it because it makes no difference (or very little) regarding the blood sugar readings.
 
Last edited:
thanks for sharing!
first of all i probably fell into a lot of broscience stories regarding insulin... people claiming "5iu humalog pre workout gave me the most insane pumps ever"... well it seems like their 200g sugar intra workout shakes are what gave them these pumps, not the insulin.

im using insulin for the anticatabolic purposes, thats why i run it preworkout only.
not for the glycogen refilling properties post workout. ive seen studies that claim insulin needs to be dosed in huge amounts for actual anabolism to occur, while it is decently anticatabolic in very small amounts already.

and i know youre a guru on that, but i dont agree on the carbohydrate sources you mention AT ALL. why would i use complex carbohydrates with a rapid acting insulin that lowers blood sugar quickly?
ALL carbohydrates get broked down into monosaccharides anyway. so why should i not just use straight dextrose then?

imo the big advantage of complex carbohydrates is the slow and steady blood sugar (and therefore insulin) release.
when i use a rapidly peaking exogenous insulin, complex carbohydrates provide zero benefit imo.
maybe >50g dextrose is too much at once for any amount of insulin to shuttle and youre better off adding some slower carbs then, but since im not doing that (my shakes are about 500ml skim milk, whey and 30-40g dextrose so thats about 50-60g carbs). i feel perfectly fine with that amount of dextrose. no GI stress either.

the ONLY advantage of all that fancy vitargo, cyclic dextrins stuff is low osmolarity, meaning quicker absorption and less stomach stress. i dont get stomach stress from dextrose though.
dextrose and whey give me ZERO stomach issues, so im not paying 5x as much for the newest fancy products.
its just like buying lactose free milk when youre perfectly fine with lactose. pointless imo.



i like testing stuff myself. its more about where you want to end up, not where you are... im 5'8 180lbs at a true 8% bf... ive seen people with 20lbs less lean mass running slin cycles. ive also seen people with 20lbs MORE lean mass being completely clueless. i obviously know how to use insulin safely, so why should i not ;)

I will address this later when I have time, but there are many more facets to insulin than what has been alluded to here, as well as multiple misconceptions regarding how to best use the drug or obtain the desired result. It would take a while to provide an adequate explanation for all the errors here, so I will do it when I have more time.
 
I will address this later when I have time, but there are many more facets to insulin than what has been alluded to here, as well as multiple misconceptions regarding how to best use the drug or obtain the desired result. It would take a while to provide an adequate explanation for all the errors here, so I will do it when I have more time.

alright, if you can back that up with scientific substance im very open to your suggestions.
but please make sure to not misunderstand me on purpose.
i never said it makes sense to use insulin without eating.
i never said it makes sense to use insulin without protein.
i never said insulin is not anabolic or whatsoever.
im just not sold on the superiority of any other carbohydrate source WHEN USING EXOGENOUS SLIN.
 
while were at it, if you have time id also like to know your opinion on stuff like creatine and glutamine with the slin. i see a lot of people recommending both.

glutamine because it makes fat cells less sensitive to insulin and at the same time muscle cells more sensitive ? (according to this L-glutamine supplementation induces insulin resistance in adipose t... - PubMed - NCBI)

creatine simply because insulin greatly increases uptake?

what are your thoughts on this? worthy additions or waste of time/money? creatine is so dirt cheap it might actually be worthwhile...
 
I like this thread, EXCEPT for a few things:

Saying that drinking a shake and taking your insulin at the same time is a mistake because it takes 40min+ to hit you is ONLY for you. I have a lot of experience with Novolog, it hits me much, much faster.

There is a HUGE difference in insulin sensitivity between people. There is also a HUGE difference in what say, a 50 blood sugar, feels like to different people.

People who are used to going low (from type Is I personally know) won't even feel 50-60 glucose levels, and can function and stay conscious even down in the TEENS.

Other people who are not used to going low are having sweats at 80 and starting to pass out and feel light headed in the 60s (me).

The fact that your glucose went up to 149 says something. I'm no expert but 149 sounds like insulin resistance. Pretty much everything you describe sounds like very high insulin resistance, except the low fasting glucose level.

Are you keeping your slin refrigerated? (I will assume yes, but I don't know how fast it degrades if not).

Mike and I have crossed paths on this issue several times, and he does know his shit very well, but I have a lot personal experience with slin, and it works much, much differently for me.

If I haven't taken slin in a long time, 2iu hits me like a ton of bricks. I usually go up 1iu at a time until I get to 5iu. This is a shitload and I can go hypo very easily.

Here is another great example, a type I friend of mine takes about 22iu of slin per day, total. His doctor thinks he should be taking about 50iu (couple different types). He recently had a pump put in and it almost killed him because they estimated his dose way to high. He doesn't make insulin at all.

So that brings me to my IMPORTANT point: if I hadn't been using slin for a long time, and I pinned 10iu of novolog, I could easily be in a LOT of trouble. I have no doubt 10iu would be enough to kill me if I didn't eat or get help.

Food for thought when making recommendations to other people.

PS I have been using slin on and off since the mid 90s, all kinds, all protocols. When I started using it, almost no one was using slin (in my circles).
 
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