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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:59 PM
alfresco's Avatar
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donating blood . . . does it reduce red blood cell count?

It is well established that any meaningful testosterone supplementation
stimulates erythropoiesis which in turn raises hematocrit and red blood
cell count (RBC).

My question is this: why does, or should, donating / giving blood lower your
hematocrit and RBC is all you are actually doing is lowering the total volume
of your blood in circulation, not actually removing or filtering out RBC's?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but after donating blood you still have the same
concentration of hematocrit and RBC in your remaining blood, you just have less
total blood in circulation.

The reason I am asking is that in my case my hematocrit and RBC has risen
to the high end of normal, and sometimes over. I donate blood every season,
but recently it has risen even more, even with a reduced total testosterone
level.

I'm thinking that when the body starts making more blood, it does so with the
higher concentration of hematocrit and RBC (as a function of erythropoiesis),
adding to a already highly concentrated blood.

Would somebody with a bigger brain than mine please explain this to me . . .
why donating / giving blood lowers your hematocrit and RBC?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:09 PM
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My thoughts are this:

Your body starts out naturally (in most cases) producing x% of RBC and y% of WBC and hemocrit, basically a state of homeostasis. Then drugs or other outside factors (diet) are introduced which can rais any of these out of the ordinary. When you give blood then your body has to produce these WBC and RBC again and would do so at the appropriate amounts of each to reach homeostasis again, not produce a larger amount of RBC etc.

edit: when you add this newly produced blood (with lower RBC blood) that the body produced to fill that which was taken, and you add that to the % of higher RBC which is currently existing within the body, this would lower the overall % of RBC.

just my thoughts, im not a doctor ha

Last edited by VTliftVT; 07-10-2008 at 02:12 PM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:52 PM
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Now I am no doctor, mad scientist maybe but it is the equivelent of taking something like OJ concentrate and adding water. It dillutes it. When we donate blood it does lower the volume of blood circulating temporarily. This lower volume still has the increased RBC count. In order to produce more blood to satisfy the drop in volume the body will then add water to the blood (since blood is made up of mostly water) to pump up the volume first. This addition of water dillutes the blood back down to a lower concentration of RBC's. Itr then takes time for our system to produce RBC's and other goodies that make up our blood. So over time the RBC count starts to climb again. But it is the dilluted blood that lowers the RBC count.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 06:17 PM
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So while on cycle, how often does one donate blood. And does this effect blood pressure?
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfella View Post
Now I am no doctor, mad scientist maybe but it is the equivelent of taking something like OJ concentrate and adding water. It dillutes it. When we donate blood it does lower the volume of blood circulating temporarily. This lower volume still has the increased RBC count. In order to produce more blood to satisfy the drop in volume the body will then add water to the blood (since blood is made up of mostly water) to pump up the volume first. This addition of water dillutes the blood back down to a lower concentration of RBC's. Itr then takes time for our system to produce RBC's and other goodies that make up our blood. So over time the RBC count starts to climb again. But it is the dilluted blood that lowers the RBC count.
Exactly. When you donate you do lose RBCs in the blood you give away. Immediately afterwards your hematocrit would not have changed. After just 24 hours or so your body will have replaced that lost volume entirely with plasma. Plasma is mostly water, and has no RBCs. So after this has happened, your hematocrit will be down. It then takes about 1 month or more to replace those RBCs you lost.
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:46 AM
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ton of info posted here on this site:
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:40 AM
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gentlemen

Thanks so much for all your responses.

It helps.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:16 PM
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2014, 04:49 PM
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my crit is always around 52-54 and and rbc around 6.1 ( I think) my dr told me it was pointless to give blood thinking it will help lower this. he said within a few weeks i will be right back to the same level. He told me he was ok with the numbers as long as they didnt get any higher.

Any comments Maldorf?
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack of all View Post
my crit is always around 52-54 and and rbc around 6.1 ( I think) my dr told me it was pointless to give blood thinking it will help lower this. he said within a few weeks i will be right back to the same level. He told me he was ok with the numbers as long as they didnt get any higher.

Any comments Maldorf?
54 is the point where most dr's start to get worried. Whole blood donation is going to replenish pretty fast. Have you considered doing a double rbc?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2014, 06:29 PM
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Swear I learn something new everyday in this site. Ironically, sometimes more answers lead to more questions though.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2014, 07:26 AM
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Time to seek out a new physician, if s/he doesn't understand the pathophysiology of hematology. Or you misunderstood the message that was conveyed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jack of all View Post
my crit is always around 52-54 and and rbc around 6.1 ( I think) my dr told me it was pointless to give blood thinking it will help lower this. he said within a few weeks i will be right back to the same level. He told me he was ok with the numbers as long as they didnt get any higher.

Any comments Maldorf?
__________________
Imagine there is a bank account that credits your account each morning with $86,400. It carries over no balance from day to day. Every evening the bank deletes whatever part of the balance you failed to use during the day. What would you do? Draw out every cent, of course? Each of us has such a bank. It’s name is time.

Every morning, it credits you with 86,400 seconds. Every night it writes off as lost, whatever of this you have failed to invest to a good purpose. It carries over no balance. It allows no over draft. Each day it opens a new account for you. Each night it burns the remains of the day. If you fail to use the day’s deposits, the loss is yours. There is no drawing against “tomorrow.” You must live in the present on today’s deposits. Invest it so as to get from it the utmost in health, happiness and success! The clock is running! Make the most of today.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2014, 09:46 AM
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I wish I could go to Stewie for my doctor lol!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2014, 02:58 PM
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they can test your rbc right after giving blood (cause they should be testing it before) it always drops 7-9 points. def not broscience. DONATE!
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2014, 06:17 PM
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First time I donated it was at 52. That's after more than a year blast and cruise. The second time 8 weeks later I was at 47. I'd say it helps a lot .
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2014, 06:53 PM
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checking in

Haha . . . took a spammer (not deleted, what does that say?) to resurrect this thread.

A lot of bridge under the water between then and now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsrun4it View Post
they can test your rbc right after giving blood (cause they should be testing it before) it always drops 7-9 points. def not broscience. DONATE!
Interesting reply. Are you sure? I am due to give blood again after the 12th. I will ask to have them do this this.

Thinking about this, my initial response would be they are testing a ratio, a percentage, and not a reaction, or a result.
Immediately after donating, I would expect it to be the same, because they are taking whole blood, not red blood cells,
correct? Given more time, it will be lower. And then given even more time, it will be higher. But hey, what do I know?

Given a short amount of time (how much?), with the total loss of blood, your red blood cells would, will be, lower.
As would be your white blood cells, etc. And then over time your RBC will build back up to above your normal level due
a normal body’s response to the stimulus imposed by (in my case) extra testosterone resulting in the message to
produce more RBC.

Before, years ago, they would do the ‘blood drop’ (red blood cell, RBC); a floater got rejected (that would be
my wife, the healthiest, the most ‘fit’ person I know, cannot donate blood. And you would benefit from her blood).
Now, where I go, they ‘analyze’ it, give you a number. Much better.

Good conversation.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2014, 04:50 AM
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Honestly I don't think giving blood is the best longterm solution. I go to a Dr. Serrano "type" of phycisian and I thought I was all good giving blood every few months. He convinced me if I'm on it WILL NOT HELP. Let me rephrase that...if your levels are alarmingly high sure...donate for immediate relief.

But if you are on hormones a lot, blasting and cruising you must find a better solution. Within 2-3 weeks my levels are right back up to where they were. You must look at your drug protocols, diet, etc. for a better longterm solution.

I think a lot of people on heavy amounts of drugs would be shocked if they got bloodwork, gave blood, and then got bloodwork 2-4 weeks later. If you are still pedal to the medal on ped's it will only be a temporary fix.

Through assloads of bloodwork, diet changes, supplements, I've gotten to the point i can stay in the "safe" range all year.

I see so many people on boards blasting on 2 grams of test and cruising on 500mgs that give blood twice a year and think all good. It's probably not helping as much as you think.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2014, 05:01 AM
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let me be abundantly clear I am not anti- giving blood. I am just saying for the heavy big time blast and cruise guys you need a multi pronged approach to having blood that does not look like sludge. Some of them are simple....


eat fruits and veggies. People with large amounts of greens and fruits such as grapfruit, lemons even drinking things like apple cider vinegar appears to vastly improve blood health

staying hydrated



also as a side bar aspirin does NOT lower hematocrit.


the grapefruit thing is no joke. If I have at least 3-5 whole grapefruits a week and drink 1-2 gallons of water it never gets too high.




Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1988;58(4):414-7.
Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated hematocrits in human subjects.
Robbins RC1, Martin FG, Roe JM.
Author information
Abstract
This study was based on in vitro observations that naringin isolated from grapefruit induced red cell aggregation and evidence that clumped red cells are removed from the circulation by phagocytosis. The effect on hematocrits of adding grapefruit to the daily diet was determined using 36 human subjects (12 F, 24 M) over a 42-day study. The hematocrits ranged from 36.5 to 55.8% at the start and 38.8% to 49.2% at the end of the study. There was a differential effect on the hematocrit. The largest decreases occurred at the highest hematocrits and the effect decreased on the intermediate hematocrits; however, the low hematocrits increased. There was no significant difference between ingesting 1/2 or 1 grapefruit per day but a decrease in hematocrit due to ingestion of grapefruit was statistically significant at the p less than 0.01 level.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2014, 05:30 AM
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Flex, you are making some good points. I would love to put more into this thread. I, well as many others have gone into great details on this particular topic. I do have to get into my morning lab's, or I'd post more threads.

I encourage you to read through these threads. 1g boldenone = aspirin? - Professional Muscle (Korean)

What is going on with my Hemo blood levels!!! bloodtest inside. - Professional Muscle (Bulgarian)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex500 View Post
let me be abundantly clear I am not anti- giving blood. I am just saying for the heavy big time blast and cruise guys you need a multi pronged approach to having blood that does not look like sludge. Some of them are simple....


eat fruits and veggies. People with large amounts of greens and fruits such as grapfruit, lemons even drinking things like apple cider vinegar appears to vastly improve blood health

staying hydrated



also as a side bar aspirin does NOT lower hematocrit.


the grapefruit thing is no joke. If I have at least 3-5 whole grapefruits a week and drink 1-2 gallons of water it never gets too high.




Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1988;58(4):414-7.
Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated hematocrits in human subjects.
Robbins RC1, Martin FG, Roe JM.
Author information
Abstract
This study was based on in vitro observations that naringin isolated from grapefruit induced red cell aggregation and evidence that clumped red cells are removed from the circulation by phagocytosis. The effect on hematocrits of adding grapefruit to the daily diet was determined using 36 human subjects (12 F, 24 M) over a 42-day study. The hematocrits ranged from 36.5 to 55.8% at the start and 38.8% to 49.2% at the end of the study. There was a differential effect on the hematocrit. The largest decreases occurred at the highest hematocrits and the effect decreased on the intermediate hematocrits; however, the low hematocrits increased. There was no significant difference between ingesting 1/2 or 1 grapefruit per day but a decrease in hematocrit due to ingestion of grapefruit was statistically significant at the p less than 0.01 level.
__________________
Imagine there is a bank account that credits your account each morning with $86,400. It carries over no balance from day to day. Every evening the bank deletes whatever part of the balance you failed to use during the day. What would you do? Draw out every cent, of course? Each of us has such a bank. It’s name is time.

Every morning, it credits you with 86,400 seconds. Every night it writes off as lost, whatever of this you have failed to invest to a good purpose. It carries over no balance. It allows no over draft. Each day it opens a new account for you. Each night it burns the remains of the day. If you fail to use the day’s deposits, the loss is yours. There is no drawing against “tomorrow.” You must live in the present on today’s deposits. Invest it so as to get from it the utmost in health, happiness and success! The clock is running! Make the most of today.
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