donating blood . . . does it reduce red blood cell count?

[Flex500]

Flex, you are making some good points. I would love to put more into this thread. I, well as many others have gone into great details on this particular topic. I do have to get into my morning lab's, or I'd post more threads.

I encourage you to read through these threads. 1g boldenone = aspirin? - Professional Muscle (Korean)

What is going on with my Hemo blood levels!!! bloodtest inside. - Professional Muscle (Bulgarian)

Great reads as I just touted grapefruit I am also in the medical field and this may be a surprise but I AGREE with the dissection of the study. That said although not always the right approach I tried everything possible to keep crit to levels that are acceptable without giving blood. It's seems that lowering the dose (I'm on 250mgs about 7-8 months a year and never go over 1g rest of the year), staying overly hydrated, gorging on gren veggies, stuffing my face with blueberries, pineapple, apples, lemons, grapefruit as well as 4 ounces apple cider vinegar a day I seem to stay all good.


Now there is a couple caveats here. First and foremost I'm not using shot compared to many. Take my test to 1 gram and add in 400mgs eq and 100mgs anadrol I'm not sure my diet would do much lol.

Genetics also plays a role. There are people in trt who have to watch. Then yhere are others on 2 grams of gear who can stay in normal/high.

Shit bostin Lloyd taking 8 grams of gear had a normal crit level.

 

[goonstopher]

Does donating reduce vascularity for long?

How about help with anxiety?

 

[benner]

Is high iron the same as high RBC count? I have high iron, but am unsure what my actual HCT and RBC counts are...

 

[Flex500]

Does donating reduce vascularity for long?

How about help with anxiety?

i don't notice any drop in vascularity at all. Oddly enough everytime i stand up after giving blood i have veins crawling all over me.

I'm not sure it would help with anxiety at all unless this crit issue is what is giving you your anxiety

 

[Mike Arnold]

I didn't read any other responses, so the question was probably already answered, but yes, donating blood does lower RBC count, but more importantly, it reduces hematocit.

Blood is comprised of both RBC's and plasma. Plasma is the liquid part of blood, while RBC's are just that--red blood cells. This is important to know, as it helps us understand the difference between RBC's an hematocrit.

Hematocrit is the percentage of RBC's in the blood, while RBC's are just the number of RBC's present in the blood. If RBC's start to get too high relative to plasma, the blood gets thicker. This is referred to as an increase in hematocrit.

The reason donating blood works to reduce RBC's and therefore hematocrit, is simple. RBC's take time for the body to produce. However, the liquid part of blood, plasma, is easily and quickly replaced . So, if you donate blood, you are temporarily reducing both RBC's and plasma, which will not immediately result in a reduction in hemetaocrit (the percentage of RBC's in the blood). However, within a short period of time plasma is replaced, but RBC's are not. This results ina reductioin in the percentage oif RBC's in the blood, which lower hematocrit.

So it is not necessarily the number of RBC's present which matter, but how much RBC's you have rrekative to plasma. Too much RBC's relative to plasma and the blood gets too thick. Too little and it gets too thin. Donating blood is the quickest way to bring hematocrit back under control.

If you have high hematocrit, it is important you stay well hydrated until the problem is resolved, as not drinking enough water results in a near immediate reduction in plasma, which automatuically increases hematocrit. If your hematocrit is already high, this can spell trouble.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Is high iron the same as high RBC count? I have high iron, but am unsure what my actual HCT and RBC counts are...

No, they are not the same. High iron refers only to blood levels of iron, while RBC's refer strictly to the number of RBC's present in the blood.

 

[benner]

No, they are not the same. High iron refers only to blood levels of iron, while RBC's refer strictly to the number of RBC's present in the blood.

interesting... so high iron doesn't automatically mean high HCT?

 

[Stewie]

Actually Mike, that's not the case.

The beginning stages of red blood cell production is controlled by several physiological actions. Starting with the action of hemocytoblast that initiates into becoming a cell called a proerythroblast, then it will develop into a new red blood cell.

The formation of a red blood cell from hemocytoblast takes about 2 days. With an individual that has no known
comorbidity or an induction off AAS, under normal circumstances, the human body makes about 2 million red blood cells every second.

I didn't read any other responses, so the question was probably already answered, but yes, donating blood does lower RBC count, but more importantly, it reduces hematocit.

Blood is comprised of both RBC's and plasma. Plasma is the liquid part of blood, while RBC's are just that--red blood cells. This is important to know, as it helps us understand the difference between RBC's an hematocrit.

Hematocrit is the percentage of RBC's in the blood, while RBC's are just the number of RBC's present in the blood. If RBC's start to get too high relative to plasma, the blood gets thicker. This is referred to as an increase in hematocrit.

The reason donating blood works to reduce RBC's and therefore hematocrit, is simple. RBC's take time for the body to produce. However, the liquid part of blood, plasma, is easily and quickly replaced . So, if you donate blood, you are temporarily reducing both RBC's and plasma, which will not immediately result in a reduction in hemetaocrit (the percentage of RBC's in the blood). However, within a short period of time plasma is replaced, but RBC's are not. This results ina reductioin in the percentage oif RBC's in the blood, which lower hematocrit.

So it is not necessarily the number of RBC's present which matter, but how much RBC's you have rrekative to plasma. Too much RBC's relative to plasma and the blood gets too thick. Too little and it gets too thin. Donating blood is the quickest way to bring hematocrit back under control.

If you have high hematocrit, it is important you stay well hydrated until the problem is resolved, as not drinking enough water results in a near immediate reduction in plasma, which automatuically increases hematocrit. If your hematocrit is already high, this can spell trouble.

 

[Stewie]

No it doesn't. Thumb through this What is going on with my Hemo blood levels!!! bloodtest inside. - Professional Muscle (Bulgarian)

interesting... so high iron doesn't automatically mean high HCT?

 

[jack of all]

The point my dr was making was that if your body wants/needs (either naturally or due to aas) to be at a crit level of 50. Your body will go back to a crit level of 50 after you give blood. I have heard this takes two to three weeks. You can only give blood every 8 weeks. So giving blood only helps temporarily.

Is this wrong?

 

[kubes]

The point my dr was making was that if your body wants/needs (either naturally or due to aas) to be at a crit level of 50. Your body will go back to a crit level of 50 after you give blood. I have heard this takes two to three weeks. You can only give blood every 8 weeks. So giving blood only helps temporarily.

Is this wrong?

Your Dr Can prescribe Therapeutic Phlebotomy if it is needed to keep Hematocrit levels down

 

[Stewie]

I would encourage you to read through this thread. Very related to your question.
What is going on with my Hemo blood levels!!! bloodtest inside. - Professional Muscle (Bulgarian)

The point my dr was making was that if your body wants/needs (either naturally or due to aas) to be at a crit level of 50. Your body will go back to a crit level of 50 after you give blood. I have heard this takes two to three weeks. You can only give blood every 8 weeks. So giving blood only helps temporarily.

Is this wrong?

 

[jack of all]

That was a good read. I do have sleep apnea and have been on a cpap now for about 3 months. I was hoping to see my crit levels go lower. I did just compete in a bodybuilding show and this last blood work was only 2 weeks post show. Lipids, liver and RBC's were all elevated. I am going to get some more blood work in a couple months hopefully all will be better.

But that thread proves the point that your body will quickly replace red blood cells when it needs them. Unless you are going to lower your aas dose giving blood every 8 weeks doesnt seem like it will do any good at all.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Actually Mike, that's not the case.

The beginning stages of red blood cell production is controlled by several physiological actions. Starting with the action of hemocytoblast that initiates into becoming a cell called a proerythroblast, then it will develop into a new red blood cell.

The formation of a red blood cell from hemocytoblast takes about 2 days. With an individual that has no known
comorbidity or an induction off AAS, under normal circumstances, the human body makes about 2 million red blood cells every second.

Let me rephrase. It takes time for a given dose of AAS to maximize hematocrit levels. This is not something that happens over night. It can take months. This is why donating blood once every month or two is generally sufficient to keep hematocrit under control. Of course, depending on the type(s) and dosage of AAS administered, hematocrit can rise slower or faster, but it still takes time...much longer than 2 days.

This is what I was referring to when I made that statment--how long it takes AAS to maximize hematocrit readings--not how long it takes the body to make a red blood cell.

Is that a bit more clear?

 

[Mike Arnold]

That was a good read. I do have sleep apnea and have been on a cpap now for about 3 months. I was hoping to see my crit levels go lower. I did just compete in a bodybuilding show and this last blood work was only 2 weeks post show. Lipids, liver and RBC's were all elevated. I am going to get some more blood work in a couple months hopefully all will be better.

But that thread proves the point that your body will quickly replace red blood cells when it needs them. Unless you are going to lower your aas dose giving blood every 8 weeks doesnt seem like it will do any good at all.

See bold above: There is a difference between how long it takes the body to produce a red blood cell and how long it takes for a given dose of AAS to maximize hematocrit levels. The former has to do with the body's ability to produce an RBC, while the latter has to do with how the body responds to a drug. These are two completely different things.

In other words, the body may be able to produce an RBC quickly, but that is irrelevant, as it can take months for a given dose of AAS to maximize hematocrit levels. As an example, when I first began recieving TRT from my Doc, he hd mne come in every 2 freakin' weeks for the first 2 months, in order to check test blood levels and other health markers, including hematocrit. At a dosage if 200 mg weekly, the maximum dosage allowable for TRT according to the PDR, my hematocrit has risen only 2 points in the first 2 weeks of use, but had risen 5 points at 2 months of treatment, after which it remained at that point and did not get any higher. It took 2 full months (or at least 6 weeks, as he did not test my hematocrit at week 6) to maximize hematocrit levels at a set dosage of testosterone.

Donating blood, even if only once every 2 months, would definitely be helpful for someone who struggles with elevated hematocrit, although once monthly may be preferable for those administering larger dosages of AAS.

Still, it is all individual, as not everyone responds to the same to AAS's RBC increasing effects. Some people, even after taking fairly large dosages of AAS, will still remain in the normal range (not that common), even if at the top end of normal, while some others have gone out of the normal range just by taking 200 mg of testosterone weekly. There is significant variance in personal response.

 

[Flex500]

See bold above: There is a difference between how long it takes the body to produce a red blood cell and how long it takes for a given dose of AAS to maximize hematocrit levels. The former has to do with the body's ability to produce an RBC, while the latter has to do with how the body responds to a drug. These are two completely different things.

In other words, the body may be able to produce an RBC quickly, but that is irrelevant, as it can take months for a given dose of AAS to maximize hematocrit levels. As an example, when I first began recieving TRT from my Doc, he hd mne come in every 2 freakin' weeks for the first 2 months, in order to check test blood levels and other health markers, including hematocrit. At a dosage if 200 mg weekly, the maximum dosage allowable for TRT according to the PDR, my hematocrit has risen only 2 points in the first 2 weeks of use, but had risen 5 points at 2 months of treatment, after which it remained at that point and did not get any higher. It took 2 full months (or at least 6 weeks, as he did not test my hematocrit at week 6) to maximize hematocrit levels at a set dosage of testosterone.

Donating blood, even if only once every 2 months, would definitely be helpful for someone who struggles with elevated hematocrit, although once monthly may be preferable for those administering larger dosages of AAS.

Still, it is all individual, as not everyone responds to the same to AAS's RBC increasing effects. Some people, even after taking fairly large dosages of AAS, will still remain in the normal range (not that common), even if at the top end of normal, while some others have gone out of the normal range just by taking 200 mg of testosterone weekly. There is significant variance in personal response.

Good post MIke. I think we are actually all agreeing but wording it in different ways. I agree with you however my point was the group of people who are donating once every 90 days and crusing on 500mgs test and blasting on 1-2 grams may not be sufficiently taking care of the issue.

To that point my overarching theme was checking off blood letting from your list should only be part of the holistic approach. I would solely count on that one thing alone to prevent heart issues and stroke...you and I and some in this thread know that...many do not.


When some get so wrapped up in hematocrit I usually tell them to take a step back. Get bloodwork done and if all of the below are in check I'd bet they are in pretty good shape...

-fasting blood sugar
- blood pressure
-kidney and liver values
- lipid profile

In my years of healthcare and working with physicians if you have those 4 things in check and keep them in check the cards usually fall in place all good.


I am all for donating blood but around the interwebz there is an obsession with crit levels while the individual is walking around with a fasting blood glucose of 150, a bp of 170/98, and liver values in the 300's. I'd bet my next year salary if someone keeps these markers in 100% check they will be g2g.

I know I'm getting into the bigger picture of overall health and I am not diminishing crit

 

[Bio]

This question is for Mike Arnold and Stewie.

Mike, in the past you've suggested Naringin to lower hematocrit, which is backed by actual studies. I noticed you didn't bring that up in this thread and I haven't heard anyone else mention this supplement in any of the other threads regarding hematocrit. Do both of you feel this is still a good supplement to incorporate?

One study with Naringin used 36 individuals with hematocrit ranging from 36.5 to 55.8. Interestingly, those with the higher hematocrit level showed a drop to 49.2, but those with a lower number had an increase to 38.8.

This study can be found here...

Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated... [Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1988] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Stewie]

Hello Bio. Hope all is well.

Here's my opinion 1g boldenone = aspirin? - Professional Muscle (Korean)

This question is for Mike Arnold and Stewie.

Mike, in the past you've suggested Naringin to lower hematocrit, which is backed by actual studies. I noticed you didn't bring that up in this thread and I haven't heard anyone else mention this supplement in any of the other threads regarding hematocrit. Do both of you feel this is still a good supplement to incorporate?

One study with Naringin used 36 individuals with hematocrit ranging from 36.5 to 55.8. Interestingly, those with the higher hematocrit level showed a drop to 49.2, but those with a lower number had an increase to 38.8.

This study can be found here...

Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated... [Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1988] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Bio]

Hello Bio. Hope all is well.

Here's my opinion 1g boldenone = aspirin? - Professional Muscle (Korean)

Thanks Stewie! I want to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that Nagingin and / or grapefruit is the cure for HH. I was just asking if you and Mike Arnold felt is was something worth adding in to the arsenal. As always, I appreciate your advice!

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Great intel folks.

thanks all for your posts, very informative!