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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2017, 01:32 PM
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Alright gents,

Starting stats 196lbs, 22.2% bf, 5'8 30 years old

I'm on a Keto diet at 600 below maintenanc while I'm on the DNP and I find doing low carb makes the carb cravings AND heat MUCH more bearable.

Depending on fatloss I plan to do 19 more days on DNP at 600mg. I may up the DNP dosage depending on how I'm feeling as well as the progress I'm making.
GH @ 10iu/day split into four 2.5 iu doses
Synthetine 1ml before fasted cardio and 1ml pretraining which I'll be upping to 2ml before each training time.
ECA stack 25mg eph, 1 large cut black coffee, 81mg asprin 3xday
400mg Primo e/wk
250 mg Test e/wk

I'm doing fasted cardio in the AM as well as training around 4 to 5 hours later. My 2nd workout of the day is weight training but I'm not going crazy with weight since I know I'm not going to grow. I may add another cardio visit later in the evening.
I'm hoping to cut 5 to 10% bodyfat in the next 19 days which I think will be a breeze. Then doing a very clean bulk from there.

At the end of the day today I feel great I'm just sweating my ass off which is expected. I've taken DNP with and without GH and as of now I think w/GH is a game changer as far as general well-being and energy but I'll be able to give a more educated opinion in a week or two.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 07:41 AM
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I'm getting a little down on myself but I know I shouldn't be.

Day 4 198 which was 2 lbs ABOVE my starting weight
Day 5 196 Same as starting weight
Day 6 196 Same as starting weight

I didn't account for the bloat I'd get from the GH and I think that's what's keeping the scale from moving. I know I was fat starting but I look like crap now. I've always had nicer traps and wide shoulders and have held my weight well but when I look in the mirror now I have NO muscle definition and my belly bloat is insane. I'm totally disgusted looking at myself and on top of that I'm still at my starting weight. I have faith though, and don't plan to change a whole lot.

My diet is 1200 calories staying to damn near a keto diet. I did decide that 600mg DNP was a bit much for me so I toned it down just a bit to 500mg and that allows me to sleep and keeps me from labored breathing. I wake up about 4 times per night to change the blanket I'm sleeping on and drink 700ml water each time.

I've decided (after seeing the scale) to add another 45min of incline treadmill cardio. 7-10% incline walking at 2.5 to 2.8 MPH

I'm still doing light workouts, high volume but light weights and I've been getting my lift in about 4 hours after my first cardio for the day.

Still keeping to 250 test e 400 primo e/wk (I've considered adding in Var or Ace but I think I'm going to keep things going as they are)

Still doing my ECA stack 3x a day

Still using Synthetine 2x per day at 1ml for each shot. I think I'll up that to 3x per day since I've added in PM cardio.

GH still at 10iu per day split into four 2.5iu shots

Even thought I don't see the scale moving I believe that I'm losing fat. I'll get another bodyfat reading in the next 48 hours.

Last edited by Colorado; 11-17-2017 at 07:43 AM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado View Post
I'm getting a little down on myself but I know I shouldn't be.

Day 4 198 which was 2 lbs ABOVE my starting weight
Day 5 196 Same as starting weight
Day 6 196 Same as starting weight

I didn't account for the bloat I'd get from the GH and I think that's what's keeping the scale from moving. I know I was fat starting but I look like crap now. I've always had nicer traps and wide shoulders and have held my weight well but when I look in the mirror now I have NO muscle definition and my belly bloat is insane. I'm totally disgusted looking at myself and on top of that I'm still at my starting weight. I have faith though, and don't plan to change a whole lot.

My diet is 1200 calories staying to damn near a keto diet. I did decide that 600mg DNP was a bit much for me so I toned it down just a bit to 500mg and that allows me to sleep and keeps me from labored breathing. I wake up about 4 times per night to change the blanket I'm sleeping on and drink 700ml water each time.

I've decided (after seeing the scale) to add another 45min of incline treadmill cardio. 7-10% incline walking at 2.5 to 2.8 MPH

I'm still doing light workouts, high volume but light weights and I've been getting my lift in about 4 hours after my first cardio for the day.

Still keeping to 250 test e 400 primo e/wk (I've considered adding in Var or Ace but I think I'm going to keep things going as they are)

Still doing my ECA stack 3x a day

Still using Synthetine 2x per day at 1ml for each shot. I think I'll up that to 3x per day since I've added in PM cardio.

GH still at 10iu per day split into four 2.5iu shots

Even thought I don't see the scale moving I believe that I'm losing fat. I'll get another bodyfat reading in the next 48 hours.
Why are your calories so low? You are training and doing cardio every day and taking dnp on 1200 cals. It's far too low. Yes you want to lose fat but where do you go after 1200 cals... 1000? You are going about this the wrong way.

Another thing regardless of bodyfat when someone starts dieting they usually go through a pharse of looking like crap. Less calories and more cardio is common so they start that at their higher bodyfat so you lose muscle fullness and may go flatter but haven't lost bodyfat so look and feel like crap. Even guys who start at 12% bodyfat when dieting go through exactly the same. It's about the long term results and that's why 1200 cals is far too low. It will give short term results but not long term going too extreme too soon when you don't know how to effectively diet.

The HGH and DNP can both put on water retention so it's no surprise you are the same weight either. I wouldn't use hgh with dnp personally as for me hgh zaps my energy so added on to dnp it would be bad. If hgh doesn't do that to you then great carry on but just understand it's water and you will be losing fat. Definitely up your cals though especially if doing all that training. You will still lose loads of fat on dnp.

Synthetine you don't have to dose it 3 times per day and twice is plenty just move up in dose. It should help with your energy levels too.
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Last edited by Elvia1023; 11-17-2017 at 09:30 AM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado View Post
I'm getting a little down on myself but I know I shouldn't be.



Day 4 198 which was 2 lbs ABOVE my starting weight

Day 5 196 Same as starting weight

Day 6 196 Same as starting weight



I didn't account for the bloat I'd get from the GH and I think that's what's keeping the scale from moving. I know I was fat starting but I look like crap now. I've always had nicer traps and wide shoulders and have held my weight well but when I look in the mirror now I have NO muscle definition and my belly bloat is insane. I'm totally disgusted looking at myself and on top of that I'm still at my starting weight. I have faith though, and don't plan to change a whole lot.



My diet is 1200 calories staying to damn near a keto diet. I did decide that 600mg DNP was a bit much for me so I toned it down just a bit to 500mg and that allows me to sleep and keeps me from labored breathing. I wake up about 4 times per night to change the blanket I'm sleeping on and drink 700ml water each time.



I've decided (after seeing the scale) to add another 45min of incline treadmill cardio. 7-10% incline walking at 2.5 to 2.8 MPH



I'm still doing light workouts, high volume but light weights and I've been getting my lift in about 4 hours after my first cardio for the day.



Still keeping to 250 test e 400 primo e/wk (I've considered adding in Var or Ace but I think I'm going to keep things going as they are)



Still doing my ECA stack 3x a day



Still using Synthetine 2x per day at 1ml for each shot. I think I'll up that to 3x per day since I've added in PM cardio.



GH still at 10iu per day split into four 2.5iu shots



Even thought I don't see the scale moving I believe that I'm losing fat. I'll get another bodyfat reading in the next 48 hours.


I am going to echo Elvia: your calls are too low. You’re eating 1200 cals and doing cardio...which will put you down around 900\1000 a day. That’s starvation mode and it doesn’t matter if you’re running gear or not. You’re body still thinks it starving.

And DNP and gh make you hold water and look like shit. I have used dnp three times and looked like a huge fat ass on it (instead of a medium fat ass)

Also you’re using everything to lose weight: cardio, low cal diet, gear, dnp, gh, and etc. My question is what happens when you stall? You’ve used your entire toolbox and have nothing to kick fat loss back into gear.

I know you probably won’t...but I would drop the dnp and gh. And up the cals.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by lcsulla View Post
I am going to echo Elvia: your calls are too low. You’re eating 1200 cals and doing cardio...which will put you down around 900\1000 a day. That’s starvation mode and it doesn’t matter if you’re running gear or not. You’re body still thinks it starving.

And DNP and gh make you hold water and look like shit. I have used dnp three times and looked like a huge fat ass on it (instead of a medium fat ass)

Also you’re using everything to lose weight: cardio, low cal diet, gear, dnp, gh, and etc. My question is what happens when you stall? You’ve used your entire toolbox and have nothing to kick fat loss back into gear.

I know you probably won’t...but I would drop the dnp and gh. And up the cals.
Exactly. Drop some cals and lose some bodyfat. Add in small doses of aas and build some muscle and lose more bodyfat. Drop some cals and lose more weight. If you need add in dnp on the same cals and drop loads of fat. After the dnp see how you are and cruise on diet etc and then again drop more cals and get shredded. By the end of this I would expect someone to be on at least 1500 cals and that is if they are really pushing it and want to get super low bodyfat. I diet on approx 3000 calories and can get very lean on that amount because I started at about 5000.

You hear about those massively fat people on tv going on those starvation diets and a gain super effective short term but not long term. Things need to be done gradually. One change at a time and monitor progress. If you use everything all at once then you have nowhere to go and Colorado I promise you will stall even on those low calories. Very often when cals are so low and you are training so much the body goes into starvation mode and holds onto everything. It almost doesn't make sense but it will hold onto everything it can to protect itself. You almost have to trick the body to get extremely lean. Plus you don't even need to get really lean just about 12% bf would be a good goal and this is not the way to get there. What happens when you lose weight on next to no calories then you eat a normal persons calories... you gain weight back and fast.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
Exactly. Drop some cals and lose some bodyfat. Add in small doses of aas and build some muscle and lose more bodyfat. Drop some cals and lose more weight. If you need add in dnp on the same cals and drop loads of fat. After the dnp see how you are and cruise on diet etc and then again drop more cals and get shredded. By the end of this I would expect someone to be on at least 1500 cals and that is if they are really pushing it and want to get super low bodyfat. I diet on approx 3000 calories and can get very lean on that amount because I started at about 5000.

You hear about those massively fat people on tv going on those starvation diets and a gain super effective short term but not long term. Things need to be done gradually. One change at a time and monitor progress. If you use everything all at once then you have nowhere to go and Colorado I promise you will stall even on those low calories. Very often when cals are so low and you are training so much the body goes into starvation mode and holds onto everything. It almost doesn't make sense but it will hold onto everything it can to protect itself. You almost have to trick the body to get extremely lean. Plus you don't even need to get really lean just about 12% bf would be a good goal and this is not the way to get there. What happens when you lose weight on next to no calories then you eat a normal persons calories... you gain weight back and fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcsulla View Post
I am going to echo Elvia: your calls are too low. You’re eating 1200 cals and doing cardio...which will put you down around 900\1000 a day. That’s starvation mode and it doesn’t matter if you’re running gear or not. You’re body still thinks it starving.

And DNP and gh make you hold water and look like shit. I have used dnp three times and looked like a huge fat ass on it (instead of a medium fat ass)

Also you’re using everything to lose weight: cardio, low cal diet, gear, dnp, gh, and etc. My question is what happens when you stall? You’ve used your entire toolbox and have nothing to kick fat loss back into gear.

I know you probably won’t...but I would drop the dnp and gh. And up the cals.
Thanks a ton for the responses guys, I really am an open book. You're both right I have no idea how to diet as I've never done it before. I spoke to Tenny about training but we couldn't make anything happen due to me contacting him close to the start of the contest (my fault).

Icuslla, you might be right maybe I should have stayed off the DNP and GH but I'm pretty balls deep in it now so I'm going to continue using DNP for the next 2(ish) weeks and GH for the next 4(ish) weeks. As this is a 9 week transition contest by the time I come off DNP and GH and figure out where I'm at I don't think I'd have the time to jump back on if I needed to, but I will take your advice for sure and up my calories.

Elvia (and Icuslla), my thought process here was
1) Drop calories hard in the beginning in an attempt to shed weight while I let the DNP and supporting compounds do their thing.
2)The last 10 days of DNP I would start to increase my calories to around 2500 and go into my short term lean bulk
3) Introduce more hardcore building compunds (drol, dbol, ace, high dose var, mast p, possibly slin, whatever it may be) as I'm coming off the DNP.
4) drop gh and any aromatizing compounds 10 days out, but continue on mast p and primo e (possibly light test)
5) 5 days out start the water cut that's been suggested to me.

Once again I've never cut for my purpose, other than "damn these jeans are getting a bit tight." In which case I let off the fat foods for a couple months then went on about my way.

This all like a basic common sense way to go about things but I have zero experience and I may be completely off base. You guys are probably looking at me like an infant in water this this made sense to me, however, bodybuilding isn't my speciality which is why I'm here.

Last edited by Colorado; 11-17-2017 at 01:42 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado View Post
Thanks a ton for the responses guys, I really am an open book. You're both right I have no idea how to diet as I've never done it before. I spoke to Tenny about training but we couldn't make anything happen due to me contacting him close to the start of the contest (my fault).

Icuslla, you might be right maybe I should have stayed off the DNP and GH but I'm pretty balls deep in it now so I'm going to continue using DNP for the next 2(ish) weeks and GH for the next 4(ish) weeks. As this is a 9 week transition contest by the time I come off DNP and GH and figure out where I'm at I don't think I'd have the time to jump back on if I needed to, but I will take your advice for sure and up my calories.

Elvia (and Icuslla), my thought process here was
1) Drop calories hard in the beginning in an attempt to shed weight while I let the DNP and supporting compounds do their thing.
2)The last 10 days of DNP I would start to increase my calories to around 2500 and go into my short term lean bulk
3) Introduce more hardcore building compunds (drol, dbol, ace, high dose var, mast p, possibly slin, whatever it may be) as I'm coming off the DNP.
4) drop gh and any aromatizing compounds 10 days out, but continue on mast p and primo e (possibly light test)
5) 5 days out start the water cut that's been suggested to me.

Once again I've never cut for my purpose, other than "damn these jeans are getting a bit tight." In which case I let off the fat foods for a couple months then went on about my way.

This all like a basic common sense way to go about things but I have zero experience and I may be completely off base.
I forgot about your contest but no you have it backwards imo. You should start at higher cals and if anything drop them later. What is this about a lean bulk... no chance at your bf% even after dnp. If it's a contest about transforming getting as lean as possible will have the best outcome. Getting a little leaner and growing muscle I guarantee won't look as impressive as you will still be quite fat. Many guys will assume you had the muscle under the fat. to begin with so you basically didn't cut as good as you could have. Plus muscle takes time to build. Cutting fat can be done very quickly and you can look like a different person in 8 weeks. When does your contest end?

You don't need all of those drugs but who am I to tell you what to do. Although I will say sometimes adding in various drugs can actually go against you. Now a decent dose of avar to finish in the last few weeks is not a bad idea though for ultimate changes. Your goal now should be lose as much fat as possible but still listen to the calorie advice as it's far too low. You were what 22% or so at the start. Adding dnp to the same diet would drop lot's of fat. Now eating all clean food and just under the calories you were eating and dnp will work wonders. Then after the dnp you can lower cals a little more but keep everything clean. Get off these super low calories.

Who told you to drop water for 5 days? I would drink lot's of water starting now. I would drink water throughout the entire day as it will help with results. I would up the water in the final 2 weeks gradually until you are drinking loads. Then I would drop it the day before your pics. You can trick your body in 1 day but start trying to trick it over multiple days and it starts regulating things and fights you back. If you drop it the last day or 2 it will keep flushing out and you will look drier and drier. But that should be the least of your concerns right now you need to get lean enough for water to make a difference. If you are fat that water thing won't look good at all. Muscle is mainly water so it's not a bad thing. Make sure you drink lot's of it. Not sure how long you have but I know it is a decent amount of time so you can get really lean if you do things properly.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
I forgot about your contest but no you have it backwards imo. You should start at higher cals and if anything drop them later. What is this about a lean bulk... no chance at your bf% even after dnp. If it's a contest about transforming getting as lean as possible will have the best outcome. Getting a little leaner and growing muscle I guarantee won't look as impressive as you will still be quite fat. Many guys will assume you had the muscle under the fat. to begin with so you basically didn't cut as good as you could have. Plus muscle takes time to build. Cutting fat can be done very quickly and you can look like a different person in 8 weeks. When does your contest end?

You don't need all of those drugs but who am I to tell you what to do. Although I will say sometimes adding in various drugs can actually go against you. Now a decent dose of avar to finish in the last few weeks is not a bad idea though for ultimate changes. Your goal now should be lose as much fat as possible but still listen to the calorie advice as it's far too low. You were what 22% or so at the start. Adding dnp to the same diet would drop lot's of fat. Now eating all clean food and just under the calories you were eating and dnp will work wonders. Then after the dnp you can lower cals a little more but keep everything clean. Get off these super low calories.

Who told you to drop water for 5 days? I would drink lot's of water starting now. I would drink water throughout the entire day as it will help with results. I would up the water in the final 2 weeks gradually until you are drinking loads. Then I would drop it the day before your pics. You can trick your body in 1 day but start trying to trick it over multiple days and it starts regulating things and fights you back. If you drop it the last day or 2 it will keep flushing out and you will look drier and drier. But that should be the least of your concerns right now you need to get lean enough for water to make a difference. If you are fat that water thing won't look good at all. Muscle is mainly water so it's not a bad thing. Make sure you drink lot's of it. Not sure how long you have but I know it is a decent amount of time so you can get really lean if you do things properly.
The contest is over January 9th and I didn't think about guys assuming that I had the muscle under the fat, you're probably right, good call. I'm not planning on using all of the drugs I mentioned, I knew I was going to do this challenge so and I was on the road so I just ordered a crap ton of stuff so I had all the tools available to me to use if needed. I didn't want to be scrambling to find gear. I have all the tools to use I just don't have the plan/knowledge/experience to put it all together.

My idea on the lean bulk was that after the DNP I'd be at a low enough bodyfat to try to gain a little while on a strict diet but I can see how that might have been misguided.

The five day water drop [plan] was something that was brought up to me by a friend of a friend. It was briefly explained to me but I don't know it off the top of my head and I haven't looked into water cuts at all. It's quite far down the road. It had something to do with a water load for 3 days then a cut for 2 days. I'm drinking a ton of water now, around 2ish gallons a day and have been since well before the start of this.

Bottom line is my focus is as you said, get as lean as possible now. I'll access things after I'm done with this DNP but I'll up my calories now.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:44 PM
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The contest is over January 9th and I didn't think about guys assuming that I had the muscle under the fat, you're probably right, good call. I'm not planning on using all of the drugs I mentioned, I knew I was going to do this challenge so and I was on the road so I just ordered a crap ton of stuff so I had all the tools available to me to use if needed. I didn't want to be scrambling to find gear. I have all the tools to use I just don't have the plan/knowledge/experience to put it all together.

My idea on the lean bulk was that after the DNP I'd be at a low enough bodyfat to try to gain a little while on a strict diet but I can see how that might have been misguided.

The five day water drop [plan] was something that was brought up to me by a friend of a friend. It was briefly explained to me but I don't know it off the top of my head and I haven't looked into water cuts at all. It's quite far down the road. It had something to do with a water load for 3 days then a cut for 2 days. I'm drinking a ton of water now, around 2ish gallons a day and have been since well before the start of this.

Bottom line is my focus is as you said, get as lean as possible now. I'll access things after I'm done with this DNP but I'll up my calories now.
I thought you meant drop water for 5 days but 2 days is fine but keep doing what you do and increase your water intake at the end. I have seen some guys who were quite fat lose lot's of fat and fast and they had a surprising amount of muscle underneath. Much more than you would think when they started. Some guys can also build muscle and lose fat at the same time if they are doing everything correctly and especially if they are new to all of this. For you don't be thinking about bulking just solely concentrate on getting your bodyfat as low as possible.. trust me on that. You have enough time to make big changes but you have to be 100% all the way through.

So up your cals and train hard and carry on with what you are using and just get as lean as possible. That should be your own thought for the next month. Keep us updated.
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