Enlarged heart and 40% EF. Appreciate any help.

[m87r]

While that’s a lot of usage and years of stress on the body, it’s a good sign that this is a “new” and isolated occurrence.

As well that you truly do have no blockages.

An MRI is the gold standard as others have said as it will be the most accurate at giving your EF rate and finding if any damage has been done within the heart.

It’s not uncommon for people to have had an event and not even be aware of it.

But if this is isolated and recent I would look to the factors around when it began and what triggered or started it.

If you were on tren or MENT I could see this being a factor to push things over the edge. If not then I would really dive in with a good sports cardiologist to get to the root of it and the severity.

There is a difference between a standard cardiologist, interventional cardiologist and a sports cardiologist. You’ll need the last two in this case with a good sports cardiologist managing your health IMO.

This could be something such as athletes heart or more. That’s why a sports cardiologist would be ideal.

https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/blood-heart-circulation/athletes-heart.html#:~:text=Athlete's%20heart%20(AHS)%20is%20an,can%20lead%20to%20sudden%20death.

There’s been a ton of great supplements and things recommended. I’d personally move beta blockers to Nebilivol, but you’re covering all the bases. I’d just look to find the root piece that triggered all this.

The doctors are on that also. They want to know why I have this. A biopsi from the heartmuscle might be done after the MRI.

The cardiologists think that maybe when I had the myocardit back 18 years ago made some damage that they didn´t see at the aftercheck on the echocardiogram. That´s why I now will check my numbers for the P-Troponin once a week for 4 weeks. To see if I have elevated numbers all the time.

Thanks on the advice for sports cardiologist.

 

[m87r]

I´ve been lazy on the cardio for most of my life. It´s mostly when I prep that I do cardio. So to do cardio regulary all the time will be a big difference for my heart.

 

[bbxtreme]

The doctors are on that also. They want to know why I have this. A biopsi from the heartmuscle might be done after the MRI.

The cardiologists think that maybe when I had the myocardit back 18 years ago made some damage that they didn´t see at the aftercheck on the echocardiogram. That´s why I now will check my numbers for the P-Troponin once a week for 4 weeks. To see if I have elevated numbers all the time.

Thanks on the advice for sports cardiologist.

I would take a look at homocysteine and hsCRP as well. Both will tell you a lot about the health of your artery’s.

With an enlarged heart and low EF it is standard procedure to jump to “there is damage”. And maybe there is.

But I would focus on the wins in that you still have an EF of 40, there are no blockages and know that it can be improved and managed.

Regardless it goes without saying I’m sure that I would drop down to TRT at max and keep your cardio up for the foreseeable future. Even if that’s cardiac rehab or walking to your mailbox. The heart is still a muscle.

Stay positive and feel free to DM me if you need anything!

 

[bensif]

You sound like someone that sees this a lot in your profession. How probably is it that this is HCM versus DCM? Isn't DCM more prominent in older unhealthy patients and not in young athletic patients?

I don't work in the field so not at all; I was recently diagnosed with dcm but my father has hcm and a variation of the MYBPC3 gene. Certain variants can 'switch on' either hcm or dcm.

But both can be pathological too.

Prominence is more to do with when a person is tested; an athletic individual may not notice any symptoms with dcm as their overall cv system is efficient. I however noticed intermittent afib at rest due to reduced EJ and unfortunately 'electrical' issues as a result of the athletic remodelling.

With regards to what is more likely, it's impossible to say but HCM is more typical with what is referred to as an enlarged heart. The hcm though, would be thickening of specific portions of the heart coupled with a type of scarring only seen with hcm.

 

[m87r]

I would take a look at homocysteine and hsCRP as well. Both will tell you a lot about the health of your artery’s.

With an enlarged heart and low EF it is standard procedure to jump to “there is damage”. And maybe there is.

But I would focus on the wins in that you still have an EF of 40, there are no blockages and know that it can be improved and managed.

Regardless it goes without saying I’m sure that I would drop down to TRT at max and keep your cardio up for the foreseeable future. Even if that’s cardiac rehab or walking to your mailbox. The heart is still a muscle.

Stay positive and feel free to DM me if you need anything!

CRP under 4. Basically nothing. Don´t know if they did test homocysteine.

I'm mostly positive and that I can make this better. It´s a change in goals to adjust to just.

I will DM you. Thanks! I just got out of the hospital. Breathing is normal now.

 

[m87r]

Homocysteine has been good last 6 years from my normal bloodwork. Did it 2 months ago. Middle of the range.

 

[LK3]

if you really want to get better forget the 200-300mg test. drop down to real trt. 10 no more then 20 mg ed. when i run 20 its only 6x wk.
go for long cardio walks. ppl seem hung up on hit for cardio, liss cardio as in jogging for distance has helped me. loose weight. loose ego. lol
thats the hardest part. you want to make your heart more efficient being able to sustain movement like jogging i think does that more then hit. it will also be much harder for you.

 

[stackdizzy]

Homocysteine has been good last 6 years from my normal bloodwork. Did it 2 months ago. Middle of the range.

They have you on a low sodium diet? If so what's the max they say you can have?

 

[bbxtreme]

Homocysteine has been good last 6 years from my normal bloodwork. Did it 2 months ago. Middle of the range.

That’s your artery health. So that’s good news as well.

What compounds and dosages were you on when this happened?

I honestly am not asking out of judgment. We all know what I use on here. Just seems that there was a catalyst here. It’s an isolated incident so something pushed it over the edge.

 

[Biggerp73]

If you have the money, bump the ubiquinol up to 800mg per day, 400mg morning and night.

I had acute congestive heart failure, my ejection fraction was down to 20%. So my heart is pretty sensitive now and I can feel when something is effecting it. The mega dose of ubiquinol really makes a difference.

The curcumin helps too, especially if you take bloperine with it, but the biggest help in my experience has been the ubiquinol.

 

[Bio]

@m87r Did you monitor you BP?

You need to hear the story of Chris250 who used to be on this forum. Your story has many parallels to his. He competed at the national level. He had an enlarged heart, came off gear and his symptoms improved. This lifestyle and look is addictive!! He wanted to compete again, went back on, albeit less gear, and he died of a heart attack. He was married with a young daughter, possibly two. I hope you take this seriously and see it for what it is!!

Look at his initial post on page 1
Then page 3 post# 59
Then page 6 post# 102 and read from there and take special note of post# 109.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/in-the-hospital-for-the-weekend.58782/


Then look at this thread...

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/rip-chris250.126640/

 

[stackdizzy]

Fuck bro that is pretty intense! That Is too bad and several members on this board could have a very similar story....including myself

 

[bbxtreme]

If you have the money, bump the ubiquinol up to 800mg per day, 400mg morning and night.

I had acute congestive heart failure, my ejection fraction was down to 20%. So my heart is pretty sensitive now and I can feel when something is effecting it. The mega dose of ubiquinol really makes a difference.

The curcumin helps too, especially if you take bloperine with it, but the biggest help in my experience has been the ubiquinol.

What’s your EF rate now? What did you do to bring it back up?

Trying to add a positive as there’s a lot of health stuff on here currently so would love to hear your story.

One thing I will say- I agree on the higher amounts of ubiquinol. However, if someone can’t afford to take 600-800mg or any supplement for that matter then they shouldn’t be running gear IMO.

As much as I am transparent about my dosages I also the same person who takes my BP and BG twice a day (more if needed) and does every proactive and preventive measure and screening that is available.

I would never run high dosages or suggest anyone do them without these items. Even then we must know our limits.

 

[Biggerp73]

What’s your EF rate now? What did you do to bring it back up?

Trying to add a positive as there’s a lot of health stuff on here currently so would love to hear your story.

One thing I will say- I agree on the higher amounts of ubiquinol. However, if someone can’t afford to take 600-800mg or any supplement for that matter then they shouldn’t be running gear IMO.

As much as I am transparent about my dosages I also the same person who takes my BP and BG twice a day (more if needed) and does every proactive and preventive measure and screening that is available.

I would never run high dosages or suggest anyone do them without these items. Even then we must know our limits.

Sure. My CHF was acute, brought about suddenly within a few months, due to extremely high doses of GH and stimulants, along with a very high sodium diet. I was in the hospital twice in one month, for a couple weeks each time. When I got out I came off all the GH and stimulants, went on a very low sodium diet, and dropped down to HRT. The doctor prescribed me carvedilol and losartan, and Dante Trudell recommended apigenin, ubiquinol, curcumin, and another I forget now. Within a few months I felt normal and started increasing my doses and started using GH again. I kept the doses much lower than before and learned to manage my blood pressure and heart by adjusting my meds and supplements with my doses. When I got my ejection fraction tested again a couple years after the original CHF, it was up to 55%. Since then I've had periods of very high doses of AAS, but never any GH anymore (last time I used it was two years ago), and the only stimulant I use is one cup of coffee on Friday mornings. When I up my dose of AAS I up my dose of telmisartan, carvedilol, and ubiquinol, and it seems to work just fine to balance things out.

 

[Golden]

That only tends to work where the enlargement is a result of athletic remodelling and/or androgen mediated remodelling. Detraining and cessation of AAs usually shows a reduction within 6 weeks.

If it is genetic factor, e.g. HCM then it doesn't. An MRI and genetic test is usually faster and safer. That is what I have been through myself.

How has your diagnosis of DCM affected your bodybuilding in regards to gear you take, etc?

 

[m87r]

They have you on a low sodium diet? If so what's the max they say you can have?

No not a low sodium diet for now. My BP is good. With my medication I got now I was down till 110/65 after 2 days. When I got to the hospital it was only around 125/75 something.

 

[m87r]

If you have the money, bump the ubiquinol up to 800mg per day, 400mg morning and night.

I had acute congestive heart failure, my ejection fraction was down to 20%. So my heart is pretty sensitive now and I can feel when something is effecting it. The mega dose of ubiquinol really makes a difference.

The curcumin helps too, especially if you take bloperine with it, but the biggest help in my experience has been the ubiquinol.

I'm on as much as I can right now. I will go up to 800 mg when I get the stuff I ordered yesterday!

Thanks.

 

[m87r]

@m87r Did you monitor you BP?

You need to hear the story of Chris250 who used to be on this forum. Your story has many parallels to his. He competed at the national level. He had an enlarged heart, came off gear and his symptoms improved. This lifestyle and look is addictive!! He wanted to compete again, went back on, albeit less gear, and he died of a heart attack. He was married with a young daughter, possibly two. I hope you take this seriously and see it for what it is!!

Look at his initial post on page 1
Then page 3 post# 59
Then page 6 post# 102 and read from there and take special note of post# 109.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/in-the-hospital-for-the-weekend.58782/


Then look at this thread...

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/rip-chris250.126640/

I didn´t monitor it all the time. But went I checked it was never bad. It was even good when I got to the ER and had breathing problems.

 

[bensif]

How has your diagnosis of DCM affected your bodybuilding in regards to gear you take, etc?

I'd come off anyway in January for fertility reasons. But my cardiologist, following stress tests, told me there was no evidence to suggest I should reduce or stop training.

If anything my heart was more efficient under load.

But I do now have to have annual scans. I am also waiting an ablation for the afib.

That aside, the diagnosis did rock me but I have so many other health issues right now I am not really sure what to do with all the information lol.

I've never been a big user anyway, but I will probably not touch any of the harsher compounds again and keep a much closer high on my bloodwork and how I feel.

 

[Siggy]

The universe is knocking on your door brother. Quit everything immediately. Go down to a TRT dose. Stop kidding yourself.

Stop cycling for good. This might be unrealistic for someone as committed as yourself, but even if you break down and start cycling again in a couple of years, you will have taken a nice break.

The common factor I see in posts similar to yours is that people are indifferent and dismissive about the grave warnings they are experiencing.