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37 days on MK-677, blood work results.

From my understanding of peps and MK, the pituitary gland doesn't fatigue more with one than the other, MK will pulse GH for 25 hours and HEX + CJC or whatever other GHRPS don't pulse GH for that long hence the multiple daily injects required, to get GH to pulse throughout the day.

Hope my simple explanation makes sense lol. Some of the pep reps are much more scientific and can explain it much better than I :eek:

It's a different action

Mk makes the "stock" natural pulses more intense it does not add pulses.

The peps cause extra pulses so in theory (of some....maybe even many) this stresses and over works the pituitary and that's why there are reports of down regulation and basically becoming immune to the drug over extended use.
 
Really?

Why?

are you saying the studies are wrong and that it cannot and won't do that or???


Because the person thst started this thread has igf levels of about 25% above his baseline currently with only 37 days of use. You don't think his levels could continue to rise?


You seem to have the answers so post up and I will read your vast knowledge in the subject instead of the other studies.

I've mentioned it before on this forum. I don't have a high lost count here please don't confuse thst with lack of knowledge or activity in this community. As you can see I've been a member here since 07 been in this community for 15 years give or take. Talk to me with the respect and depth you would a peer not a peeon. It goes a lot farther when you want people to listen to you.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant the part about pituitary fatigue, I thought I put it in bold but looks like I didn't. It is not true, if anything one could argue MK-677 causes fatigue from the constant pulsing but that's not true either. This was said about CJC1295 DAC some time ago (gh bleed they called it), and as Mike Arnold mentioned this was debunked when igf levels continued to rise.

Didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. I definitely believe the igf levels will keep rising brother. I'm a big advocate of MK-677 and gh secretagogues in general. They have done wonders for me. I don't discriminate by post count lol, I actually can't see any of that from tapatalk on my phone anyway and that's where I post from 99% of the time. You're good with me brother. [emoji4]
 
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant the part about pituitary fatigue, I thought I put it in bold but looks like I didn't. It is not true, if anything one could argue MK-677 causes fatigue from the constant pulsing but that's not true either. This was said about CJC1295 DAC some time ago (gh bleed they called it), and as Mike Arnold mentioned this was debunked when igf levels continued to rise.

Didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. I definitely believe the igf levels will keep rising brother. I'm a big advocate of MK-677 and gh secretagogues in general. They have done wonders for me. I don't discriminate by post count lol, I actually can't see any of that from tapatalk on my phone anyway and that's where I post from 99% of the time. You're good with me brother. [emoji4]

I feel that's up for debate though. My post before this one of yours has the reasoning.

And there's lots of talk chatter posts assumptions whatever pointing to the idea of the peps stressing more by forcing pulses vs mk intensified natural pulses.

Hard to really know with mk use being short term so far for the most part.
 
Mk has its own benefits but I don't think people should compare it to GH as far as igf levels go. For example if x amount of mk puts your igf levels higher than x amount of GH that does not mean mk is going to give you better overall body comp results. They both do their own thing. That would be like comparing igf increases from tren and let's say ghrp. Ghrp will increase igf levels say higher than tren but for overall body comp changes tren has far superior benefits in many other categories. So really it's best to just use everything lol
 
Oh I agree with that lol.

I go with the idea that one should take exo hgh upon waking and the MK pre bed. Get the best of both.
 
nice liver value numbers.

how do you keep yours so low?

did you take off lifting for a week or so?

last bloodwork a week or so ago
alkaline phosphate 37 (what is this?)
ast -62
alt 72

Mine liver values have been slightly high for like six years now just about every test. When I took a week off and went in for bloodwork they went down last time.

I dont use orals much, been months since I last did, like last time I did it , did a dose on training days only (pulsing) for a month and take supports on orals

I read training esp intense training always causes a raise in liver enzymes due to muscle tearing down?
 
Mk has its own benefits but I don't think people should compare it to GH as far as igf levels go. For example if x amount of mk puts your igf levels higher than x amount of GH that does not mean mk is going to give you better overall body comp results. They both do their own thing. That would be like comparing igf increases from tren and let's say ghrp. Ghrp will increase igf levels say higher than tren but for overall body comp changes tren has far superior benefits in many other categories. So really it's best to just use everything lol

Oh I agree with that lol.

I go with the idea that one should take exo hgh upon waking and the MK pre bed. Get the best of both.
Yes, I agree 100%. Take both, take everything. They are all different peptides/compounds. Even though both increase gh/igf serum levels the process, effects, results are different.

I like the idea of a ghrp in the AM followed by GH. Same preworkout and igf1-lr3 and MK-677 prebed. That was the most effective stack I ran. Add slin preworkout for some real fun!! [emoji11]
 
I think your looking at my vldl, which is 10, but it says that's in the normal range. My HDL came back at 53. Just 1 point lower than my previous. Freaked me out there lol

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Yep, you're right--never mind.
 
It's a different action

Mk makes the "stock" natural pulses more intense it does not add pulses.

The peps cause extra pulses so in theory (of some....maybe even many) this stresses and over works the pituitary and that's why there are reports of down regulation and basically becoming immune to the drug over extended use.

Yes, I understand the differences between the two drugs, but if you don't mind me asking, how long did it takes for that to happen...and to what degree? Also, how many people (with blood work to prove it) do you know of that this has happened to?

I ask because I have seen literally dozens of labs from clients who have run CJC long-term, and IGF-1 levels never fell, even after 5-6 months.
 
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant the part about pituitary fatigue, I thought I put it in bold but looks like I didn't. It is not true, if anything one could argue MK-677 causes fatigue from the constant pulsing but that's not true either. This was said about CJC1295 DAC some time ago (gh bleed they called it), and as Mike Arnold mentioned this was debunked when igf levels continued to rise.

Didn't mean it in a disrespectful way. I definitely believe the igf levels will keep rising brother. I'm a big advocate of MK-677 and gh secretagogues in general. They have done wonders for me. I don't discriminate by post count lol, I actually can't see any of that from tapatalk on my phone anyway and that's where I post from 99% of the time. You're good with me brother. [emoji4]

That's been my experience as well. Labs show elevated IGF-1 levels are maintained long-term, and it seems odd to me that it would take over 6 months for the pituitary to fatigue.
 
As far as I am aware, CJC does not "fatigue" the pituitary. I have seen 2 guys now with IGF-1 levels in the low 600's from high-dose DAC and MK-677. One of these readings was taken about a month after starting and the other about 3 months in. If IGF-1 levels were still at that level after 3 months, there is no fatigue. The pituitary has enormous GH producing potential. Hence, diseases like gigantism exist. The pituitary only releases a small amount of the GH is makes. It contains large stores of GH at all times, and can produce it rapidly if need be.

What dose of Dac would you consider high? as well as MK-677? and what doses do you recommend?
 
What dose of Dac would you consider high? as well as MK-677? and what doses do you recommend?

I guess that is a matter of perspective, but I consider anything over 5 mg of CJC/week to be a large dose.

With MK-677, we are still not 100% positive regarding the point at which IGF-1 levels stop rising. I have only seen a few labs of people running 50 mg/day. IGF-1 levels were higher than when they were running 25 mg/day, but not a lot higher. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think they were around 20-25% higher. I am sure some of the guys around here have used both doses and can tell you their results, as well.

I know one person who ran 75 mg/day and his levels were no higher than the few guys whop used 50 mg, but this is such a small number of people for comparison that it isn't really reliable. From what I gather, 25 mg appears to be ideal for most, especially when finances are a consideration. When finances don't matter, I could see using 50 mg/day, but I wouldn't recommend more than that (unless the person was doing research to compare the two doses) simply because I haven't seen any evidence to show that it provides a big enough increase in IGF-1 levels to justify the increased cost. I would guess it probably increases IGF-1 to some degree, but probably not enough to justify the increased expense.

To more directly answer your question, I almost always recommend 25-33 mg/day. I say 33 mg because one of the companies I know of that does lab work at US labs on every batch, makes their MK-677 at a concentration of 33 mg/ml. Otherwise, I wouldn't choose an odd number like that.
 
Yes, I understand the differences between the two drugs, but if you don't mind me asking, how long did it takes for that to happen...and to what degree? Also, how many people (with blood work to prove it) do you know of that this has happened to?

I ask because I have seen literally dozens of labs from clients who have run CJC long-term, and IGF-1 levels never fell, even after 5-6 months.

I don't know how long it takes. I don't KNOW if it even happens and also I don't have a search library full of copy and paste links from members posts and reads across the interweb.

Let me be clear. I'm not downing any method of raising igf levels. As mentioned use them all. I'm not stuck in one more so than the other. And personally I feel and am implicating the use of both exo hgh and mk. Kicked around the idea of adding cjc dac in as well

I like the idea of intensifying the natural pulses at the natural times over increasing pulses and I also like the fact you can take the mk orally vs another pinning. This is convient for many reasons for most people.
 
nice liver value numbers.

how do you keep yours so low?

did you take off lifting for a week or so?

last bloodwork a week or so ago
alkaline phosphate 37 (what is this?)
ast -62
alt 72

Mine liver values have been slightly high for like six years now just about every test. When I took a week off and went in for bloodwork they went down last time.

I dont use orals much, been months since I last did, like last time I did it , did a dose on training days only (pulsing) for a month and take supports on orals

I read training esp intense training always causes a raise in liver enzymes due to muscle tearing down?

Hey man, sorry I dont know what phosphate is or does without some research. But to have high liver values for 6 years straight is not good. Might want to follow up with your Doc and see what he/she thinks. I don't do anything crazy for my liver.. milk thistle daily, no orals AAS in years. I cant even tell you the last time I took an entire week off lol. But you are correct, training intensely then getting liver checked will cause high numbers, I forgot which one rises tho... ALT or AST.
 
I think a great, simple and convenient cycle would be 5mg cjc-dac per week (split 2-5 times) and MK-677 dosed at 25mg pre bed. You could go higher but I don't think it is needed for most people. That is a fairly cost effective protocol to run and should give great results.

You could also swop the cjc-dac for 5IU HGH in the morning to go with your MK-677 pre bed. Some may even want to use all 3 but to me it's unneeded and there would be better things to add in to that mix.
 
I jumped back on board and started running 12.5mg of MK prebed I jumped off previously because the bloat was too bad for me to handle mentally. I'm hoping not to gain too much water weight this time, but we will see. Almost feels like a waste only running 12.5... So I may bump it up to 25. Though last time I ran 25 I was so lethargic during the day. Decisions decisions lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Did anyone experience joint discomfort with doses of 25mg or higher with MK677? Thinking about lowering my MK dose and adding CJC DAC for awhile.
 
Did anyone experience joint discomfort with doses of 25mg or higher with MK677? Thinking about lowering my MK dose and adding CJC DAC for awhile.

Been on 30mg/night since Sep 1 and have had no problems with that at all.
 
Did anyone experience joint discomfort with doses of 25mg or higher with MK677? Thinking about lowering my MK dose and adding CJC DAC for awhile.

My joints feels much better on mk677. I've run doses up to 75mg per day but feel 25mg provided maximum benefits for me.
 
This abstract shows that chronic MK677 does NOT lead to desensitization of the pituitary. Lowered HGH output is created via a negative feedback loop mediated by elevated IGF1. Alternate day use of MK677 did NOT lead to elevated IGF1. Therefore, in theory, HGH output from MK677, if used EOD should remain high just as on Day#1.

Repeat administration of the GH secretagogue MK-0677 increases and maintains elevated IGF-I levels in beagles.

Hickey GJ, et al. J Endocrinol. 1997.

Abstract

We have reported that MK-0677 is a novel, orally active GH secretagogue that stimulates an immediate and long-lasting increase in serum GH levels in dogs. Significant elevations in IGF-I levels were associated with the increased GH secretion. Cortisol secretion was also increased following MK-0677 administration. In the current study, we determined the effect of repeat oral administration of MK-0677 on GH, IGF-I and cortisol levels; we also investigated if the GH and cortisol responses to MK-0677 are influenced by circulating IGF-I concentrations. Following the initial oral administration of MK-0677, GH secretion (area under the time-response curve (AUC) ng/ml per h) was increased 7.9- to 9.8-fold (1.0 mg/kg), 5.6-fold (0.5 mg/kg) or 3.9-fold (0.25 mg/kg). With repeat MK-0677 administration, the GH response was decreased by 41-77%; GH concentrations remained significantly above control in the 0.5 mg/kg and 1.0 mg/kg groups. Individual beagle GH profiles indicated that the increased GH concentration was associated with an amplified GH pulsatile profile. Serum IGF-I levels were significantly increased over control levels at all dosage levels by 480 min on the first day of MK-0677 administration. With repeated administration, IGF-I levels were increased up to 126% and remained elevated through 14 days, the longest treatment period evaluated. While daily MK-0677 administration appeared to increase IGF-I levels over 24 h, as evidenced by significant increases in the pretreatment IGF-I levels on days 4-14, no such increase was noted with alternate day MK-0677 administration; thus the dosage regimen modulated circulating IGF-I levels. MK-0677 stimulated increases in cortisol secretion (AUC microgram/dl per h) on the first day of treatment. A decreased cortisol response was observed following repeated daily treatment with MK-0677; in contrast, with alternate day treatment, no decrease in cortisol response to MK-0677 occurred. A marked increase in circulating IGF-I concentrations following administration of exogenous GH resulted in a significant decrease in both the GH and cortisol response to MK-0677 compared with control animals. Our findings suggested, therefore, that circulating IGF-I concentrations regulate GH and cortisol response to MK-0677. In summary, chronic oral administration of MK-0677 was associated with significant increases in GH and IGF-I levels that were maintained for the duration of the treatment. The GH profile following MK-0677 administration consisted of episodic increases above control. Compared with day 1, repeated daily treatment with MK-0677 resulted in an attenuated GH response that was associated with an increase in circulating IGF-I levels. The cortisol response was similarly reduced during chronic MK-0677 treatment, suggesting that IGF-I mediated negative feedback on both the GH and cortisol axes. The fact that similar attenuation of the GH and cortisol responses to MK-0677 on day 1 was observed if IGF-I levels were increased by treating animals with exogenous GH suggested that the attenuated response to MK-0677 that occurred during chronic treatment was mediated by increases in IGF-I rather than desensitization to MK-0677. Thus, a regulatory feedback loop apparently prevents hyperstimulation of the GH axis by MK-0677. We conclude that MK-0677 offers the potential of an orally active GH secretagogue that can maintain elevated IGF-I levels when administered chronically.
 

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