47% hematocrit 15.9 hemoglobin

[Massive G]

Almost been 2 years now of no phlebotomy.
56 19.0 were my standards. HRT and sub q cycling and God forbid if I blasted at 600 mg a week would jump to 59.
Every 3 months I would get the needle sitting in between cancer patients at the hematology oncology center.
I recently bumped to the heaviest cycle I have done in a decade 600 mg Test blend 300 mg deca and the numbers still dropped again.
Nattokinase has been bumped to 8000 a day. I can't tell my doc what I am doing because he told me years ago if I did steroids he wouldn't treat me since it was self inflicted and he had real patients to treat not ones wanting to harm themselves but yet outside the building there are cancer patients on oxygen chain smoking.

I know Natto doesn't help everyone that tries it but worth a shot. I went over 2 decades micro managing blood donations and worried my self to death.
It's one of the main reasons other than age that I dropped the heavy cycling ten years ago. Now at 50 really no reason to jump back on the beans.
The higher dosed cycle was nice but really had to be careful in the gym as a few times I got close to straining and tearing a few muscles.
I am in it for the long run and one less thing to worry about.

 

[Keefs]

Almost been 2 years now of no phlebotomy.
56 19.0 were my standards. HRT and sub q cycling and God forbid if I blasted at 600 mg a week would jump to 59.
Every 3 months I would get the needle sitting in between cancer patients at the hematology oncology center.
I recently bumped to the heaviest cycle I have done in a decade 600 mg Test blend 300 mg deca and the numbers still dropped again.
Nattokinase has been bumped to 8000 a day. I can't tell my doc what I am doing because he told me years ago if I did steroids he wouldn't treat me since it was self inflicted and he had real patients to treat not ones wanting to harm themselves but yet outside the building there are cancer patients on oxygen chain smoking.

I know Natto doesn't help everyone that tries it but worth a shot. I went over 2 decades micro managing blood donations and worried my self to death.
It's one of the main reasons other than age that I dropped the heavy cycling ten years ago. Now at 50 really no reason to jump back on the beans.
The higher dosed cycle was nice but really had to be careful in the gym as a few times I got close to straining and tearing a few muscles.
I am in it for the long run and one less thing to worry about.

Never heard of nattokinase, but I’ll have to check that one out. I read somewhere that donating blood regularly can help lower blood pressure. I’ve been thinking of starting to donate blood again just for that reason. Do you think donating lowered your BP at all? Congrats on keeping that crit in check brother! I’m glad you found something that works for you.

 

[lestatgear]

I take it and have for years. Can’t say for sure if it helps, if it’s in my regimen.

 

[Massive G]

Never heard of nattokinase, but I’ll have to check that one out. I read somewhere that donating blood regularly can help lower blood pressure. I’ve been thinking of starting to donate blood again just for that reason. Do you think donating lowered your BP at all? Congrats on keeping that crit in check brother! I’m glad you found something that works for you.

Hey thanks. Donate blood even if you aren't high hemo. It gets rid of bound iron and old rbcs. High iron levels are the main reason men have higher heart attack rates than women. Every 56 days if you can.

 

[Massive G]

I take it and have for years. Can’t say for sure if it helps, if it’s in my regimen.

I started taking it after the covid shots and really was surprised to see it continue to drop overtime. It's the only thing I added in.

 

[totalrecomp]

Almost been 2 years now of no phlebotomy.
56 19.0 were my standards. HRT and sub q cycling and God forbid if I blasted at 600 mg a week would jump to 59.
Every 3 months I would get the needle sitting in between cancer patients at the hematology oncology center.
I recently bumped to the heaviest cycle I have done in a decade 600 mg Test blend 300 mg deca and the numbers still dropped again.
Nattokinase has been bumped to 8000 a day. I can't tell my doc what I am doing because he told me years ago if I did steroids he wouldn't treat me since it was self inflicted and he had real patients to treat not ones wanting to harm themselves but yet outside the building there are cancer patients on oxygen chain smoking.

I know Natto doesn't help everyone that tries it but worth a shot. I went over 2 decades micro managing blood donations and worried my self to death.
It's one of the main reasons other than age that I dropped the heavy cycling ten years ago. Now at 50 really no reason to jump back on the beans.
The higher dosed cycle was nice but really had to be careful in the gym as a few times I got close to straining and tearing a few muscles.
I am in it for the long run and one less thing to worry about.

I am glad to here it is working for you. Your dr. sounds like a judgmental, hypocritical cunt, IMO.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

Donate blood even if you aren't high hemo.

I would not recommend this. Plenty of people who donate frequently end up with low iron and ferretin and struggle greatly to get it back up.

 

[KillerStack]

I don't know but we have had some, to me, good sounding arguments about NOT doing phlebotomies even if you are "high." I spoke to an extremely experienced HRT doc that said, "you're right, there's no evidence it reduces potential harm from steroids but we just don't like to see those high numbers on paper, you know what I mean?" Someone said we never do phlebotomies on people who live at high altitude - why would it be different if it's due to steroids? But I don't know what to believe.

A few friends just found a nurse who will do phlebotomies "off the record" and several signed up for it immediately. None of them have even checked their numbers.

 

[Massive G]

I would not recommend this. Plenty of people who donate frequently end up with low iron and ferretin and struggle greatly to get it back up.

I am talking normal blood donation 3 to 4 times a year. Not the crazy shit people do like every month because of secondary polycythemic steroid induced hypochondriac.

 

[Massive G]

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/benefits-of-giving-blood.12664/

 

[Mufasa123]

I would not recommend this. Plenty of people who donate frequently end up with low iron and ferretin and struggle greatly to get it back up.

While this sounds good I've asked again and again what are the issues of having low ferritin/iron and upper end RBC. No one has ever answered that has this concern.

When speaking to doctors and just googling low iron/ferritin has the main issue of resulting in anemia and low RBC (and associated symptoms). If you have sky high rbc/crit you by definition don't have that issue. A doctor explained to me that total iron stores include blood cells so not a concern as these get broken down with time and return iron.

I'm not saying low iron can't be an issue but every person on these boards I've asked appears to be shooting for a number and I've yet to find one who understands this issue. I'm not saying I do but every doctor has an answer and it's at least logical. Also it matches my experience as I've been in exactly this situation which is why I've asked a lot.

 

[KillerStack]

"

Phlebotomy is never indicated for secondary polycythemia in the absence of genetic thrombotic factors. So it is not a matter of a number but a cause. So T/AAS, altitude, smoking/COPD, renal cell carcinoma, hepatocellular carcinoma, adrenal adenoma, von Hippel-Lindau disease, Cushing’s syndrome, etc all cause secondary polycythemia. The only people we phlebotomize with secondary polycythemia are people on T/AAS and that's simply because of foolish quack TRT doctors and GPs adopting treatment of polycythemia vera/primary polycythemia in a healthy population because they really don't know any better and no other reason.

Rex."

More here:

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/another-blood-donation-thread.162922/

I don't know enough to be confident whether donation is warranted or not but Rex has an aggressive and convincing style in my opinion Lol.

[/QUOTE]

Again, if there is risk, phlebotomy won't help. If increased HCT bothers you, quit androgens or get over it.

Rex.

LOL

 

[specter]

While this sounds good I've asked again and again what are the issues of having low ferritin/iron and upper end RBC. No one has ever answered that has this concern.

When speaking to doctors and just googling low iron/ferritin has the main issue of resulting in anemia and low RBC (and associated symptoms). If you have sky high rbc/crit you by definition don't have that issue. A doctor explained to me that total iron stores include blood cells so not a concern as these get broken down with time and return iron.

I'm not saying low iron can't be an issue but every person on these boards I've asked appears to be shooting for a number and I've yet to find one who understands this issue. I'm not saying I do but every doctor has an answer and it's at least logical. Also it matches my experience as I've been in exactly this situation which is why I've asked a lot.

I had low iron after donating couple times and it was an absolute shit run, no energy, tired all the time, puls got high, had trouble walkin far without loosing my breath etc it was no fun, all other numbers where fine after donating but iron was tanked and it took me over a month of supplemental iron to get it back cloose to normal.

 

[Mufasa123]

I had low iron after donating couple times and it was an absolute shit run, no energy, tired all the time, puls got high, had trouble walkin far without loosing my breath etc it was no fun, all other numbers where fine after donating but iron was tanked and it took me over a month of supplemental iron to get it back cloose to normal.

Different for me but appreciate the info. I've had super low iron (I forget how low but substantially lower than range) but crit around 48 and noticed nothing. Wouldn't have known except I got an expanded panel.

 

[Gizmo]

While this sounds good I've asked again and again what are the issues of having low ferritin/iron and upper end RBC. No one has ever answered that has this concern.

When speaking to doctors and just googling low iron/ferritin has the main issue of resulting in anemia and low RBC (and associated symptoms). If you have sky high rbc/crit you by definition don't have that issue. A doctor explained to me that total iron stores include blood cells so not a concern as these get broken down with time and return iron.

I'm not saying low iron can't be an issue but every person on these boards I've asked appears to be shooting for a number and I've yet to find one who understands this issue. I'm not saying I do but every doctor has an answer and it's at least logical. Also it matches my experience as I've been in exactly this situation which is why I've asked a lot.

I might be remembering wrong, but I think @nothuman had issues with low ferritin too.

 

[whoremoan]

can someone answer this, if someone without sleep apnea, used a cpap , would their hemoglobin and hct still drop ?

 

[Mufasa123]

can someone answer this, if someone without sleep apnea, used a cpap , would their hemoglobin and hct still drop ?

Probably not. High rbc/crit is the body's response to insufficient oxygen at night from sleep apnea. All a cpap does is basically inflate you for unobstructed breathing and better O2. If you don't have sleep apnea there's nothing to drive more 02 need.

Note that I have horrendous sleep apnea (over 2x severe threshold) and been on a cpap for years. That said, I sit at top of range in rbc/crit and have my whole life. It's easier to control with the cpap but I still drift up just not as much. Basically I can't get crit under 48 (maybe 47) even with months of weekly blood draws. This is how I know what low iron/ferritin in me is like as somehow my body just converts every bit of iron I eat into rbc and doesn't worry about serum or storage.

 

[pickapeck]

Probably not. High rbc/crit is the body's response to insufficient oxygen at night from sleep apnea. All a cpap does is basically inflate you for unobstructed breathing and better O2. If you don't have sleep apnea there's nothing to drive more 02 need.

Note that I have horrendous sleep apnea (over 2x severe threshold) and been on a cpap for years. That said, I sit at top of range in rbc/crit and have my whole life. It's easier to control with the cpap but I still drift up just not as much. Basically I can't get crit under 48 (maybe 47) even with months of weekly blood draws. This is how I know what low iron/ferritin in me is like as somehow my body just converts every bit of iron I eat into rbc and doesn't worry about serum or storage.

Have you at any points just gone completely off AAS including test for 8 weeks? I do that ~once a year adn another two times go off for 3-4 weeks. That gets my hematocrit down from as high as 56% to 46-47%.

 

[nothuman]

I am glad to here it is working for you. Your dr. sounds like a judgmental, hypocritical cunt, IMO.

I dropped a urologist before because I was on TRT but my testosterone level still tested high (go figure) and he told me he wasn’t sure if he could keep treating me anymore because he assumed I was intentionally taking a high dose to build muscle.

I asked him if he told his patients who smoked cigarettes or ate a lot of highly processed foods the same thing.

He couldn’t help but tell me that was kind of a good point

 

[nothuman]

Almost been 2 years now of no phlebotomy.
56 19.0 were my standards. HRT and sub q cycling and God forbid if I blasted at 600 mg a week would jump to 59.
Every 3 months I would get the needle sitting in between cancer patients at the hematology oncology center.
I recently bumped to the heaviest cycle I have done in a decade 600 mg Test blend 300 mg deca and the numbers still dropped again.
Nattokinase has been bumped to 8000 a day. I can't tell my doc what I am doing because he told me years ago if I did steroids he wouldn't treat me since it was self inflicted and he had real patients to treat not ones wanting to harm themselves but yet outside the building there are cancer patients on oxygen chain smoking.

I know Natto doesn't help everyone that tries it but worth a shot. I went over 2 decades micro managing blood donations and worried my self to death.
It's one of the main reasons other than age that I dropped the heavy cycling ten years ago. Now at 50 really no reason to jump back on the beans.
The higher dosed cycle was nice but really had to be careful in the gym as a few times I got close to straining and tearing a few muscles.
I am in it for the long run and one less thing to worry about.

This is pretty incredible. I have been taking the same dose of nattokinase as of late but haven’t checked my numbers since. I’m also eating some natto on top of that.

Can’t remember if you’ve ever mentioned this but do you use a cpap?

I’m also starting to notice a weird trend where sometimes, higher dosages raise hematocrit more than TRT level dosages. I never had an issue with hematocrit until I lowered from blasting doses to TRT. It’s so weird.

You must have been extremely lethargic when you were donating all the time. One of the worst things bodybuilders do is donate all the time and trust me, I was the worst offender of that error. There is absolutely zero reason a bodybuilder should donate more than an average man.