Ab help - should i keep cutting

[Jizzmo]

Yep, totally for real. I should've specifically said weighted ab isolations though. The bigger your abs the bigger your midsection. It's not a problem for most who are building up from a smaller frame, but if you already have a larger midsection (like themav) then you can end up with a skinnyfat look because you're out of proportion. If there's one thing I think is a bad trend in BBing, it's the over proportioned midsections. Need to get back to this:

arnold hat extremely shit abs, looks even worse because of his barrel chest
you can even see his abs in some poses

but thats probably personal preference

neither weighted ab training nor ab isolations in general give you a thick midsection... maybe if you breathe wrong and hold in all the air while doing the movement.

IF ANYTHING gives you a thick midsection then its probably heavy squats and deadlifts, because you NEED to breathe in and keep the air in your lungs for the core stabilization. this expands midsection.

so actually the exact opposite of what you suggest is the case.

many bodybuilders avoid heavy squats and deadlifts because of that.

 

[Scotte0057]

neither weighted ab training nor ab isolations in general give you a thick midsection... maybe if you breathe wrong and hold in all the air while doing the movement.

IF ANYTHING gives you a thick midsection then its probably heavy squats and deadlifts, because you NEED to breathe in and keep the air in your lungs for the core stabilization. this expands midsection.

so actually the exact opposite of what you suggest is the case.

many bodybuilders avoid heavy squats and deadlifts because of that.

So you are saying that muscle hypotrophy from resistance training does not increase mass? This is simply incorrect my friend. Abdominal muscles behave exactly the same as all skeletal muscle tissue when exerted beyond normal core stabilization and maintaining abdominal organ pressure. It is no different than doing curls to get bigger arms.

 

[richiec]

We used to beat the hell out of our abs in college. Our coaches would have us do 15 minutes of ab work 4 times a week. My abs sucked then and suck now. I honestly don't care as I don't compete, but would like them to be a tad "thicker".
Weighted sit ups?
Cable Crunches?

 

[Jizzmo]

So you are saying that muscle hypotrophy from resistance training does not increase mass? This is simply incorrect my friend. Abdominal muscles behave exactly the same as all skeletal muscle tissue when exerted beyond normal core stabilization and maintaining abdominal organ pressure. It is no different than doing curls to get bigger arms.

hahaha. im saying ab training does not give you a thick, unaesthetic looking midsection, but the exact opposite.
entirely different from "not increasing mass".

you probably think that the "roid-gut" of todays IFBB pros is caused by excessive ab training, huh? :banghead:

now tell me how the abdominal muscles, which are lined up IN THE MIDDLE on top of your stomach cause you to have a "thick" midsection. your midsection does NOT grow to the side nor does your waist WIDTH increase. of course they grow a little to the front, but that does NOT give you a "thick" midsection unless youre extremely FAT. your abdominal muscles will NOT bulge out 3 inches like a biceps does, lol. thats just not physically possible.
**broken link removed**

 

[Scotte0057]

I'm sorry Jizzmo, but that's just not correct. Your abdominals include four muscle groups that extend laterally from your thorax (lower rib cage) to your pelvis, and longitudinally between each side of your latissimus dorsi/serratus anterior. I appreciate your taking the time to google an anatomy picture, but you should have read up before you made statements about it.

To finalize my point:
Abdominal muscles cover your entire midsection to your back. When you increase the mass and size of your abdominals you thicken your trunk, this is a fact that can't be debated. If these muscles are overdeveloped, especially with a fitness to average bodyfat (14-24%), the overall aesthetic is out of proportion and can appear bloated. If your abdominal muscles lack definition due to subcutaneous fat/retained water it is typically perceived as fat.

I restate:
If you stay lean enough and do a lot of compound core exercises it (ab work) is completely unnecessary and can end up giving you a bloated midsection.

To themav:
If you are lean enough you do not need to do ab work unless your abs are very underdeveloped. This is rare though as your abdominals are constantly working to stabilize your core. If you do weighted ab work expect your abs to react like any other skeletal muscle in your body and get bigger. If you want a bigger midsection, then go for it, but you may end up with a bad look. However if you want abdominal definition then diet yourself down to a low bodyfat and you will have it.

 

[Jizzmo]

if you consider 14% bodyfat a "fitness level" then we have completely different perceptions and it makes no point to discuss with you to be honest

 

[doitright]

Eat as clean as you possibly can bro and be patient. I am impatient as hell so if I can do it anyone can. Before you put anything in your mouth ask yourself if it will help you achieve your goal or not. That mindset will get you where you want to be.

 

[Scotte0057]

Yes Jizzmo, I do consider 14% bodyfat to be fitness level for a male.

As does the American Council on Exercise (ACE) and the National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM). Anything less is considered athlete level. The American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) considers 10-15% to be lean. These are organizations that focus on fitness standards.

From what I understand there has been no official stance on body fat from the IFBB, NPC or other bodybuilding sanctioning organizations. They simply don't have a need.

You should educate yourself before you start offering advice and your opinions, you're coming off as very uninformed right now and you can have negative repercussions on peoples lives by perpetuating misinformation.

 

[doitright]

This debate is very interesting. I see validity in both arguments. I remember hearing "don't do weighted abs training unless you want them to protrude and be thick" the first time I stepped foot in a gym many years ago. But then there are the guys that say they are muscles so why would you train them any differently. There is also the whole "crunches vs full sit ups" debate. Who the hell knows :banghead:

 

[Johnny Smiles]

Pesty and a few others hit nail on the head pretty much.
I will bluntly add that if you are worried you don't have abs and don't do direct ab work.... do ab work so atleast you will feel better about it. if they grow a bit great. if they don't, its prob not gonna hurt anything.
I personally don't believe weighted ab workouts are necessary.
I train abs when I train back. IF I train abs...
-JS

 

[method2madness]

do you expect to have a huge biceps from just doing rows?
do you expect to have huge delts from just bench pressing?

no direct ab work means you wont have good abs.

you will still have abs if your BF is low enough, but they will not look above average.

and im waiting for the first one to come with the fucking "abs are made in the kitchen"-phrase now. lol.

skinny 100lbs twinks also have visible abs because they have low BF.
they also have a visible biceps peak. on their 10 inch arms.


abs are made in the gym. they are made VISIBLE in the kitchen.

:yeahthat:

 

[themav]

Hi guys,

Just a quick update. I'm still on a cut. Looking to lose another 10lbs.

Im on mt2 at the minute to help with the tanning and other positives it brings.

 

[BIGNFIT]

Some great advice and food for thought deffinately motivated me to hit the abs!

i'm going to ditch the supernoodles and uncle bens ristto for brown rice and wholemeal pasta - cheaper aswell as less sodium as suggested.

Could you check your pm pls?

 

[johnjuanb1]

It's just bodyfat. Lose another ten pounds and your abs will look much better.

X2

 

[johnjuanb1]

Hi guys,

Just a quick update. I'm still on a cut. Looking to lose another 10lbs.

Im on mt2 at the minute to help with the tanning and other positives it brings.

Looking good, brotha! MT2 is the shit!!!

 

[themav]

Hi guys,

Just thought I would drop an update regarding my abs situation and what i have been doing the last 3 months since i posted this thread.

The last pic i posted of my abs on this thread was the best i did on my diet and i pretty much ruined it by going on a bulk. Looking back I was making progress and to start changing my mind and heading in a different direction without a plan was just a waste of the next 6 weeks. I even bought synthol and still haven't used it so you can see how i'm pretty much just scratching around at almost making things interesting for myself.

I didn't even train my abs with weight as i should have done even though i was eating surplus calories. Why didn't I use the extra calories on growing the body parts i needed to bring up. :banghead::banghead:

Anyway things came to a head and decided I need to focus and in the dead lift photo in November i was shocked to see how my gut had expanded and decided to hit it one last time to see if i can get to a lean base that I can use as a platform to then grow from.

After alot of extensive reading I decided to jump on DNP while on 250mg of Test E. DNP was started at the end of November.

I ended up doing 21 days of DNP @ 250mg a day during the week and 500mg at weekends. I took some days off work so i could extend some of the 500mg a day doses but it was a very counter productive dose for me - I just felt like doing nothing. I had all the intentions of doing fasted cardio every morning but out of 21 days I must have hit the weights 6 times and done 3 lots of cardio.

I can totally see why some people just run 250mg for 30 days because at 250 mg you can still function and at least hit the gym. The DNP was most effective for the first 2 weeks and weight loss then slowed down. I lost 20lbs in 21 days on it - photo added. Obviously the tan helps with the visual change in the pics but I felt the DNP was successful. I went form 222 lbs to 202lbs.

Since then I have introduced Winny and Test Hex AP into the cycle and been hitting cardio every other day. My workouts have been consistent and incorporating 12 to 16 rep ranges. Ab work is main priority and i'm hitting the cable crunches, ab wheel and even bought ab slings to get better at hanging leg raises.

I'm currently eating at 200 calories under maintenance and weigh 197 lbs. The last 2 photos were taken last night.

I have some liquid clen and evomuse eviscerate coming tomorrow which i will mix up and use on my abs to hopefully tighten me up (don't think it will but no harm in trying). I'm moisturising 4 times a day because of the rapid weight loss it feels like some skin is sagging around my belly button.

I still have to tense pretty hard to get my abs showing as per the last 2 pics but i feel like i'm making progress.

Would you say i'm about 13-14% body fat at the minute?

 

[nobull]

very good job. looks like you did alot of hard work (diet). congratulations

 

[ikite103]

Good work? He just took a shit load of DNP. Ab work does nothing. DNP is a fucking miracle drug.

 

[Mortalcombat]

I think your bf is 10-11% right now. Looking good!

 

[themav]

I think your bf is 10-11% right now. Looking good!

Great, I am encouraged by that.