Estrogen and Contest Prep

[Gunsmith]

What were the doses of Test and Mast at this point?

I'd like to use Mast and / or Primo in lieu of an AI, but I'm already using decent doses of both near the end of a prep and feel like I'd need a boatload to get dry.

Did your friend still have the usual death-like lethargy using Mast to lower e2 enough to be stage-dry?

300 Test E , 300 Tren E , 400 Mast E per week then 350mg week oral Winstrol the last 2 weeks.

He was a little lethargic but probably more from low calories than his estrogen being low as its just the low end of normal. The last week was actually better as we bumped his calories up to fill him out , no terrible sleep , achy joints

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I think the biggest thing guys worry with about getting dry is they simply are not lean enough and they think "drying out" will make the difference then then end up dehydrated or depleted to and look even worse.

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

 

[b-boy]

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

Get a dexa and get your estrogen checked and post both.

 

[Testosteroni]

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

Have you ever tried running DHT derivative alongside test to combat the water retention? I have the same issue where it’s incredibly difficult to gain fat but I can blow up 20-30lbs in water weight easily and lose it all within 2 weeks

 

[Oldwhitedude]

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

Mike really just needs to diet slower and longer, it's not a water issue in his case. He hasn't been in shape due to his dieting technique.

I don't know you, so I'm not judging so don't take offence, but is that the same with you?

 

[danieltx]

Mike really just needs to diet slower and longer, it's not a water issue in his case. He hasn't been in shape due to his dieting technique.

I don't know you, so I'm not judging so don't take offence, but is that the same with you?

Israetel's biggest issue is his shitty IIFYM approach when he diets - constant protein bars, loafs of bread postworkout, all that random shit he eats. If you put him on a traditional bodybuilding diet for a show he'd look a million times better. Having a PhD doesn't mean you know anything and in Israetel's case it even applies to the field he got his PhD in.

 

[luki7788]

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

there is no such option - if you had 5-6% bf even with high e2 you would be bone dry - maybe you would keep some water in your glutes or hamstrings but definitely not 10 or more lbs of water

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Israetel's biggest issue is his shitty IIFYM approach when he diets - constant protein bars, loafs of bread postworkout, all that random shit he eats. If you put him on a traditional bodybuilding diet for a show he'd look a million times better. Having a PhD doesn't mean you know anything and in Israetel's case it even applies to the field he got his PhD in.

Not disagreeing with you on that that's definitely part of it, but I still maintain he has never actually been in shape or even close. So he could eat a traditional bodybuilding diet all he likes but if he doesn't get fat free it's not gonna help.

What I'm angling at here, is that perhaps OP just never got lean enough. Like Mike.

 

[danieltx]

Not disagreeing with you on that that's definitely part of it, but I still maintain he has never actually been in shape or even close. So he could eat a traditional bodybuilding diet all he likes but if he doesn't get fat free it's not gonna help.

What I'm angling at here, is that perhaps OP just never got lean enough. Like Mike.

Absolutely.

OP is a shitty bodybuilder who won't take advantage of the help we've offered. He's never been stage-lean, never been a legit 6%, and will never ever achieve those things.

 

[Testosteroni]

Absolutely.

OP is a shitty bodybuilder who won't take advantage of the help we've offered. He's never been stage-lean, never been a legit 6%, and will never ever achieve those things.

He’s also training for a triathlon for the next few months, dieting to 6% would be detrimental for his performance.

 

[danieltx]

He’s also training for a triathlon for the next few months, dieting to 6% would be detrimental for his performance.

Not sure where you got that as it wasn't stated in this thread and it's an essential detail to a question like this.

But I'm not doubting you - OP is absolutely dumb enough to do something like attempt to prep for a bodybuilding show and train for a triathlon at the same time.

 

[Testosteroni]

Not sure where you got that as it wasn't stated in this thread and it's an essential detail to a question like this.

But I'm not doubting you - OP is absolutely dumb enough to do something like attempt to prep for a bodybuilding show and train for a triathlon at the same time.

He asked me for coaching advice but I have 0 experience with either field. With the 200 mg DNP daily I think that could be his issue contributing water retention.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Absolutely.

OP is a shitty bodybuilder who won't take advantage of the help we've offered. He's never been stage-lean, never been a legit 6%, and will never ever achieve those things.

Literally have Dexa scans proving you wrong. As usual, those of you that are absurdly gifted have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Absolutely.

OP is a shitty bodybuilder who won't take advantage of the help we've offered. He's never been stage-lean, never been a legit 6%, and will never ever achieve those things.

Unless this is your made up fudge factor "ima bodybuilder and 6% looks like this" mentally retarded out.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

He’s also training for a triathlon for the next few months, dieting to 6% would be detrimental for his performance.

You're confused asf as to who I am Newb

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

there is no such option - if you had 5-6% bf even with high e2 you would be bone dry - maybe you would keep some water in your glutes or hamstrings but definitely not 10 or more lbs of water

Science disagrees with you. Aka you're wrong. There is certainly a phenomenon where you simply add more and more water as fat loss accrues, it's documented in literature, deal with real life.

 

[IntenseVolume]

I understand this view, and that MOST people can fall into this. However, I don't fall into the norm...almost ever it seems. My body is of the extreme water buffalo type and I can still look like a load of shit sub 5% bodyfat because of it. This is partly why I wanted someone to do my prep that really, really knows what they're doing, but alas those people seem to be so aloof to security concerns it wasn't going to happen.

The only person I've really seen that I think is like this and keeps trying/pushing is Dr. Mike Isratel. I think most people with the same body type / issue eventually just give up...and to be frank I'm on that verge. I'm going to do a DEXA scan here around 6 weeks out to prove this, but of course I can't share pics here so none of you will ever believe it. *shrug*


*edit* or, alternatively I would have to be on the deaths doorstep of lean (1%) in order to look like many of you with certain genetic advantages look like at 5%, which to me isn't worth it. If it's not possible to get a decent look AND not kill oneself, then that's that I guess.

You’ve never been sub or even close to 5% bf. What you’re saying is literally impossible. There is no extreme water buffalo body type that looks like a load of shit lean, let alone 5%.
Mike has never been in shape. His competition pics he’s still too fat.

Hire a natural coach and don’t discuss drugs with them.
Dexa scans aren’t accurate it won’t prove anything. There’s only one way to accurately measure bodyfat but you won’t be alive and it’s not legal.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Good banter

 

[IntenseVolume]

Science disagrees with you. Aka you're wrong. There is certainly a phenomenon where you simply add more and more water as fat loss accrues, it's documented in literature, deal with real life.

this utter nonsense. Also science isn’t a thing, it doesn’t have the ability to agree or disagree. It’s not a person, study, research paper or institution. There’s no such thing as an uncontested conclusion.
Science is a process.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Dexa scans aren’t accurate it won’t prove anything. There’s only one way to accurately measure bodyfat but you won’t be alive and it’s not legal.

Tell me you don't know anything without telling me.

did I enter the fudd bodybuilding zone? I know some of you guys pretend training science doesn't exist, but this is a bridge too far.