Getting more, out of less...

[Zamun]

UPDATE...
Brought things down even further and feel great.

Only 20mg test and 20mg primo daily ... over 6 weeks into this lowered dose... slow steady progress (when training and diet are on point).
Alternating a couple months with GH at 5iu only pre workout MWF with and then a couple months 2iu daily... on most off days 500mcg Tesamorelin/250mcg Ipamorelin first thing in the am.
I wish I had cut back this far 10 years ago! I may try emeric protocol of 10mg/day test for a few months... that seems "too low" but seems many end up at 800-900 total and great free numbers wise... that's fine to cruise on then I can "blast" at 20-25 a day... ordered the Humanofort .. I have some hcg but he says no need.

Supplement wise still the essentials... Berberine, Curcumin, Omegas, beef liver/organs, DIM (finishing what I have, shouldn't need anything at 20mg test especially lean and with primo), Vit C, Vit D3/K2, greens, EAA intra workout, magnesium blend, and a custom made protein with whey, casein and collagen 1/3 each...

Also tried Tirzepatide to lean quickly for a beach vaca... and only did 1mg every 3rd day... and even that low dose helped with hunger while dieting and accelerated fat loss notably.

Does 1:1 primo effect your e2?

 

[hemipower]

Does 1:1 primo effect your e2?

I'd think it reduces it some BUT I have done 300 test and 400-500 primo and been fine several years back... doing the daily pins and much lower amount we shall see, so far it FEELS good but will see what bloodwork says probably by end of month. Earlier this year I did 30 test/30 primo for a couple months and was fine.

 

[Tomgrass]

UPDATE...
Brought things down even further and feel great.

Only 20mg test and 20mg primo daily ... over 6 weeks into this lowered dose... slow steady progress (when training and diet are on point).
Alternating a couple months with GH at 5iu only pre workout MWF with and then a couple months 2iu daily... on most off days 500mcg Tesamorelin/250mcg Ipamorelin first thing in the am.
I wish I had cut back this far 10 years ago! I may try emeric protocol of 10mg/day test for a few months... that seems "too low" but seems many end up at 800-900 total and great free numbers wise... that's fine to cruise on then I can "blast" at 20-25 a day... ordered the Humanofort .. I have some hcg but he says no need.

Supplement wise still the essentials... Berberine, Curcumin, Omegas, beef liver/organs, DIM (finishing what I have, shouldn't need anything at 20mg test especially lean and with primo), Vit C, Vit D3/K2, greens, EAA intra workout, magnesium blend, and a custom made protein with whey, casein and collagen 1/3 each...

Also tried Tirzepatide to lean quickly for a beach vaca... and only did 1mg every 3rd day... and even that low dose helped with hunger while dieting and accelerated fat loss notably.

Have you got a pictures of physique to
compare how you look on those doses? Would be great to see.

 

[Tomgrass]

I will give this topic a bump.
If I only knew how amazing I would feel on 40mg sust a 1iu gh a day I without hesitation would do it long time ago. The mental wellbeing is incredible. If anyone is thinking is it worth it- it is !!

 

[psychor]

I will give this topic a bump.
If I only knew how amazing I would feel on 40mg sust a 1iu gh a day I without hesitation would do it long time ago. The mental wellbeing is incredible. If anyone is thinking is it worth it- it is !!

Thanks for your advice! A couple of ?s if you don't mind. How long have you been on this? Why did you choose Sus?(ie better feeling etc.) What were you doing prior? Thanks again for sharing Bro!!

 

[Tomgrass]

Thanks for your advice! A couple of ?s if you don't mind. How long have you been on this? Why did you choose Sus?(ie better feeling etc.) What were you doing prior? Thanks again for sharing Bro!!

Sus for me gives me nice fullness with minimal water retention , great energy level , great wellbeing , before 500 sust 500 primo with 1iu gh. I cant stand more then 1iu- lethargy is on the level i cant accept.

 

[LK3]

I'd think it reduces it some BUT I have done 300 test and 400-500 primo and been fine several years back... doing the daily pins and much lower amount we shall see, so far it FEELS good but will see what bloodwork says probably by end of month. Earlier this year I did 30 test/30 primo for a couple months and was fine.

i did 20/20 for a while and worked it up to 40/40. crushed my e2 badly. the reading on my blood work was ls then 20. after a while i didnt feel right. reset with clomid, nolva, ana for 2 weeks then went back to test a little higher then trt to generate a little more e.

 

[qbkilla]

Sus for me gives me nice fullness with minimal water retention , great energy level , great wellbeing , before 500 sust 500 primo with 1iu gh. I cant stand more then 1iu- lethargy is on the level i cant accept.

Curious have you ever used prop as a base? If shooting Ed why not use something quick acting.

 

[Tomgrass]

I did used prop. Sust has prop and phenylprop so i do use fast acting. I just feel that sust suit me best.

 

[hemipower]

I will give this topic a bump.
If I only knew how amazing I would feel on 40mg sust a 1iu gh a day I without hesitation would do it long time ago. The mental wellbeing is incredible. If anyone is thinking is it worth it- it is !!

Thanks for the bump. This has been a pursuit of mine in hopes of feeling and looking best... AND maximal health and longevity at the same time. No more of the damaging things of the past... minimal drinking, no more tren, orals etc. Test, gh, peptides only... about half the year on low primo dosing. Simple.

So reading above- basically you cut your test dose in half and went to daily? That's great! Especially with the buildup of sust you may be able to get down to 25-30mg a day and lose zero size. And agreed when we have a hormone overload the effect builds over time... cleaning up to a more sensible dosing has been great for me. Going to daily or at most every other day. I also do a blend of short/long... prop/enanth/cyp. If I were to do single ester I would pick enanthate. As far as GH at the 1-1.5iu per day mark, I would think you'd have a better feel and result from peptides. Ipamorelin and tesamorelin 1-2x a day... I occasionally swap to that for a couple months to hop off of gh.

i did 20/20 for a while and worked it up to 40/40. crushed my e2 badly. the reading on my blood work was ls then 20. after a while i didnt feel right. reset with clomid, nolva, ana for 2 weeks then went back to test a little higher then trt to generate a little more e.

That may have happened to me as well. Joints feel fine so thinking E2 is not crushed but a bit low. I was on DIM as well as low test low primo. I have read through emeric's 10mg a day thread and now that I am around 20mg a day... with libido tanked so I am waiting to see if dropping primo did that or if my E2 slowly got too low from being 1:1 test to primo towards the end or what... I was wanting to try the 10mg a day to regain sensitivity to test... then 20-25mg a day as a blast would be significant result wise while still not overdoing things. I still may at some point but for now hope libido comes back and I can just hold with the 20ish mg a day current dosing.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Curious have you ever used prop as a base? If shooting Ed why not use something quick acting.

Pro is not quick acting. Is quicker out of the circulation. The maximum test levels with prop after injection is 14 hours vs cypionate 10 and 1/2 hours.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Thanks for the bump. This has been a pursuit of mine in hopes of feeling and looking best... AND maximal health and longevity at the same time. No more of the damaging things of the past... minimal drinking, no more tren, orals etc. Test, gh, peptides only... about half the year on low primo dosing. Simple.

So reading above- basically you cut your test dose in half and went to daily? That's great! Especially with the buildup of sust you may be able to get down to 25-30mg a day and lose zero size. And agreed when we have a hormone overload the effect builds over time... cleaning up to a more sensible dosing has been great for me. Going to daily or at most every other day. I also do a blend of short/long... prop/enanth/cyp. If I were to do single ester I would pick enanthate. As far as GH at the 1-1.5iu per day mark, I would think you'd have a better feel and result from peptides. Ipamorelin and tesamorelin 1-2x a day... I occasionally swap to that for a couple months to hop off of gh.



That may have happened to me as well. Joints feel fine so thinking E2 is not crushed but a bit low. I was on DIM as well as low test low primo. I have read through emeric's 10mg a day thread and now that I am around 20mg a day... with libido tanked so I am waiting to see if dropping primo did that or if my E2 slowly got too low from being 1:1 test to primo towards the end or what... I was wanting to try the 10mg a day to regain sensitivity to test... then 20-25mg a day as a blast would be significant result wise while still not overdoing things. I still may at some point but for now hope libido comes back and I can just hold with the 20ish mg a day current dosing.

Are taking the Humanofort with your test?

 

[Tomgrass]

Thanks for the bump. This has been a pursuit of mine in hopes of feeling and looking best... AND maximal health and longevity at the same time. No more of the damaging things of the past... minimal drinking, no more tren, orals etc. Test, gh, peptides only... about half the year on low primo dosing. Simple.

So reading above- basically you cut your test dose in half and went to daily? That's great! Especially with the buildup of sust you may be able to get down to 25-30mg a day and lose zero size. And agreed when we have a hormone overload the effect builds over time... cleaning up to a more sensible dosing has been great for me. Going to daily or at most every other day. I also do a blend of short/long... prop/enanth/cyp. If I were to do single ester I would pick enanthate. As far as GH at the 1-1.5iu per day mark, I would think you'd have a better feel and result from peptides. Ipamorelin and tesamorelin 1-2x a day... I occasionally swap to that for a couple months to hop off of gh.



That may have happened to me as well. Joints feel fine so thinking E2 is not crushed but a bit low. I was on DIM as well as low test low primo. I have read through emeric's 10mg a day thread and now that I am around 20mg a day... with libido tanked so I am waiting to see if dropping primo did that or if my E2 slowly got too low from being 1:1 test to primo towards the end or what... I was wanting to try the 10mg a day to regain sensitivity to test... then 20-25mg a day as a blast would be significant result wise while still not overdoing things. I still may at some point but for now hope libido comes back and I can just hold with the 20ish mg a day current dosing.

I was already doing daily injections for years but you are right no loss in size and it will not happen - as I was for years low dose guy -200 test 200-300 primo was my to go to. There was a time when I was playing for months with 500 test but in majority test was already in low range. Right now even 50 mg zinc lowering my estro- feel it straight away. And my physique looks good as usual as my main driver are not drugs but nutrition and just simply lowered to minimum and this minimum makes me feel amazing. If training and nutrition is on point with no junk food - nothing stop you from looking great and feeling great.

 

[warlock]

I also do a blend of short/long... prop/enanth/cyp. If I were to do single ester I would pick enanthate.

I'm curious, why would you pick enant over cyp if you were to do a single ester?
I've never noticed a difference between the two.

 

[Tomgrass]

I'm curious, why would you pick enant over cyp if you were to do a single ester?
I've never noticed a difference between the two.

As far as I saw on the youtube people say it is closest how enan act in body to natural production. Dont know details about it but this is what people claim.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I'm curious, why would you pick enant over cyp if you were to do a single ester?
I've never noticed a difference between the two.

The deference between enant and cyp is only 30minites, enant reaches maxim levels after 10 hours after injection and with cyp 10 and 1/2 hours , not much difference.

 

[LK3]

Thanks for the bump. This has been a pursuit of mine in hopes of feeling and looking best... AND maximal health and longevity at the same time. No more of the damaging things of the past... minimal drinking, no more tren, orals etc. Test, gh, peptides only... about half the year on low primo dosing. Simple.

So reading above- basically you cut your test dose in half and went to daily? That's great! Especially with the buildup of sust you may be able to get down to 25-30mg a day and lose zero size. And agreed when we have a hormone overload the effect builds over time... cleaning up to a more sensible dosing has been great for me. Going to daily or at most every other day. I also do a blend of short/long... prop/enanth/cyp. If I were to do single ester I would pick enanthate. As far as GH at the 1-1.5iu per day mark, I would think you'd have a better feel and result from peptides. Ipamorelin and tesamorelin 1-2x a day... I occasionally swap to that for a couple months to hop off of gh.



That may have happened to me as well. Joints feel fine so thinking E2 is not crushed but a bit low. I was on DIM as well as low test low primo. I have read through emeric's 10mg a day thread and now that I am around 20mg a day... with libido tanked so I am waiting to see if dropping primo did that or if my E2 slowly got too low from being 1:1 test to primo towards the end or what... I was wanting to try the 10mg a day to regain sensitivity to test... then 20-25mg a day as a blast would be significant result wise while still not overdoing things. I still may at some point but for now hope libido comes back and I can just hold with the 20ish mg a day current dosing.

my joints felt fine the whole time. i lift light and pretty careful a i know they can be an issue.
the biggest thing that got me was no libido. just felt weird. knew it was time to reset.
going to the lowest test possible like you are helps. 2 weeks or so and you should feel better.

 

[marssel]

Where are u injecting with slin pins if u don't mind me asking?

Delts 90% of the time

 

[marssel]

This a good read I have started cutting back some myself recently. I am only 41 but don't want to have no real serious problems.

So how successful have you been the last 12 years with that if you’re still on this forum ?

 

[hemipower]

Are taking the Humanofort with your test?

I just started a few days ago with 200mg at night. I removed DIM the same day so really won't be able to be certain what helps assuming I see improvement here in the next few weeks.

I was already doing daily injections for years but you are right no loss in size and it will not happen - as I was for years low dose guy -200 test 200-300 primo was my to go to. There was a time when I was playing for months with 500 test but in majority test was already in low range. Right now even 50 mg zinc lowering my estro- feel it straight away. And my physique looks good as usual as my main driver are not drugs but nutrition and just simply lowered to minimum and this minimum makes me feel amazing. If training and nutrition is on point with no junk food - nothing stop you from looking great and feeling great.

Agreed... nail the training and diet and use supplements and drugs as an assistant only. I'd think 40mg sust daily is still getting pretty high test levels with the long ester build up... I don't know that it would be ideal for what we are talking about but emeric may have different thoughts. I know it's really common in other countries.

As far as I saw on the youtube people say it is closest how enan act in body to natural production. Dont know details about it but this is what people claim.

I'm curious, why would you pick enant over cyp if you were to do a single ester?
I've never noticed a difference between the two.

Regarding the enanth as my personal opinion on "best" single ester... prop is quick in/out so ideal for what we are discussing but subcutaneous prop shots usually sting then whelp up on me. As far as common esters, readily available from a pharmacy... enanth is next length wise, slightly shorter than cyp.

Also what Tomgrass is saying plays in, as I have read a few things about enanth having a larger 24 hours release than cyp then it somewhat trails off... again makes sense that this would be the best for daily use especially in low doses. I mean if we were getting super granular ... 2 to 3 micro dosed shots a day of test suspension with a tiny bit of test acetate would be a pretty close mimetic of our pulsatile release pattern as men... but no thanks. Test ace isn't something my pharma has nor do I want to add more shots into the day lol.

SO... of the options, enanth makes the most sense to me. Availability and pharmicologically. My first doc that prescribed me TRT told me cyp causes depression for him but he loves enanth... that planted the seed for me to read into it and see what differences there were for him to believe that. Also enanth having a 7 carbon chain vs cyp 8 carbon you get SLIGHTLY higher test yield per weight of total (less ester/more test). Yes I know this is a tiny difference...

my joints felt fine the whole time. i lift light and pretty careful a i know they can be an issue.
the biggest thing that got me was no libido. just felt weird. knew it was time to reset.
going to the lowest test possible like you are helps. 2 weeks or so and you should feel better.

Yeah I will ride it out and just added humanofort mid week...