IGF levels on 4iu serostim (bloodwork inside)

[muscle96ss]

This might be a dumb question..but how do you know the generics are not 192 amino acid, but being sold as 191? It costs millions of dollars to get a lab rolling to create gh. It seems to be a double sided coin..pharma companies were having their profits fucked by the black market so they dubbed gh as a steroid..thus improving their sales in the states, right..? Yet, if it costs so much to get a lab rolling for 191 how can they sell it for an extremely low price or is it that the pharma price is just that high?

Irrational fear my friend. I was going to say that nobody uses 192 anymore but I believe there is on plant that uses it, maybe Ansomme, not sure. The plants that are producing the legit generic GH are legit plants and people have visited them before. Ronny T from Juiced Muscle has a good 4-part article that I posted a link to a while ago that has more details on some of this. In regards to price, as I have mentioned before, the price that pharm companies charge for their products have nothing to do with the actual price of the contents. Just look at how much they charge for HCG or Test Cyp without insurance.

 

[nfernoo]

I remember back in the day when UGL's and raw powders were new to the game. People would swear that legit Upjohn test cyp would blow you up but that the UGL stuff just wasn't the same. They also used to talk about the legit Europe pharm grade AAS and how they were something special. I think we all now know that 250mg of test cyp pharm grade and dosed correctly is equivalent to 250mg of test cyp UGL dosed correctly. The same goes for GH. I have used Serostim a shitload of times over the past 20 years or so and not only is there no difference in my blood work, but there is very little difference in the results as well. The reason that you here people say different is that they have bought into others agenda and what they are selling. For instance look at some of the claims that were made about Kigtropin and its cult following or look at what people like Trinity were saying about MG's GH(and others still are). In fact, most of the generic GH out there is created from the same technology used to create Jintropin. Yet people will tell you how great Jintropin is and then knock the Chinese generic.

Quoted:

"GH has a 3 dimensional structure to it. Generic GH isn't even close to the 3D structure of HGH produced in the body. That 3D structure is a key that fits into a lock(receptor). The generic doesn't fit the lock. A chemistry grad who works in the pharmaceutical industry explained it that way to me."


Muscle96, you'd be the first legit person to say
there's no difference. Sorry buddy but only generic source boosters say that stuff.
You won't here that from any other big builder unless they're on the take of some source.

 

[muscle96ss]

Quoted:

"GH has a 3 dimensional structure to it. Generic GH isn't even close to the 3D structure of HGH produced in the body. That 3D structure is a key that fits into a lock(receptor). The generic doesn't fit the lock. A chemistry grad who works in the pharmaceutical industry explained it that way to me."


Muscle96, you'd be the first legit person to say
there's no difference. Sorry buddy but only generic source boosters say that stuff.
You won't here that from any other big builder unless they're on the take of some source.

Last time I looked Jintropin was pharma GH. The generic GH coming out of China uses the same technology as Jintropin. In fact Hygetropin was owned by one of the founders of Jintropin. So please explain to me how Jintropin has some special 3D structure that other legit Chinese GH doesn't.

By the way, I am not the only person that says this. There have been plenty others. Just do some searches and you will see.

Lastly, I myself have taken Serostim, Humatrope, Norditropin, Genotropin, HYgetropin, Jintropin, Riptropin, Elitropin, THanktropin, and many many other generics. My 2 favorite have been Genotropin and Thanktropin(which is not made anymore); but there are only minor differences between each brand. If there was something magical in the pharma GH I would be using it right now.

 

[muscle96ss]

One more thing, if the generic does not have the 3D structure and the receptor therefore does not recognize it; then you would not get an increase in IGF-1 levels. So basically what you are saying is that people are not taking real GH but they are somehow getting good serum scores, increased IGF-1 levels, and good results. I know, I know, the Chinese have some special secret peptide that is cheap to produce and does everything that GH does; I have heard that story a million times already.

 

[nfernoo]

One more thing, if the generic does not have the 3D structure and the receptor therefore does not recognize it; then you would not get an increase in IGF-1 levels. So basically what you are saying is that people are not taking real GH but they are somehow getting good serum scores, increased IGF-1 levels, and good results. I know, I know, the Chinese have some special secret peptide that is cheap to produce and does everything that GH does; I have heard that story a million times already.

I'll believe people involved in the pharmaceutical business.
Jin is long gone buddy, and unless you're there manufacturering the gh in china yourself, please save the "process" talk for someone who believes the online stories.

and yeah, there are many guys that will say its the same.
The funny thing is they're on boards with sponsors that carry a shit ton of generic.

Also, in this example pinks body looks better and he gained more . Yet lower igf?
That's because it's not all about the igf.
There's something else going on with pharmacy gh.

Idk what to believe. I saw an ansomne test (a guy that tests many things) and it had 9.5 iu or something hgh in a 10 iu vial.
so I'm not saying things aren't gh.
But something is going on different in the body.
It's almost as if generic it's bovine somatotropin.

And there's a reason people have to take breaks from generic hgh vs pharmacy.

 

[Massive G]

as far as cost goes - just think about this - insulin is manufactured pretty much using the same technology -ecoli recombinant genes- except one is freeze dried and the other is suspended in sterile liquid.

You can get Relion Humulin R (Walmart Branded Humulin R) for about $25 a bottle. Walmart makes a deal with Lily to put their label on it ordering like a million units to keep cost down. Still the insulin probably costs lily out the door packaged $2.50 a vial for 1000 iu. And that cost includes all the materials labor marketing etc etc. I think Humulin R is like $80 at walgreens under the normal label.

I used seros and Jins back in the day.
Then a few years ago legit RIPS and HYGES and they were on par with seros, for bloat size etc. The only difference was a strong sometimes irregular heart beat.
Lost track of all the generics, sources and cap colors anyway - but back then a lot of the stuff was coming out the same factory - got shipped RIPS with HYGE labels stuck in the packs as well as HYGEs with RIP labels stuck in there -only difference was cap color. LOL

 

[muscle96ss]

I'll believe people involved in the pharmaceutical business.
Jin is long gone buddy, and unless you're there manufacturering the gh in china yourself, please save the "process" talk for someone who believes the online stories.

and yeah, there are many guys that will say its the same.
The funny thing is they're on boards with sponsors that carry a shit ton of generic.

Also, in this example pinks body looks better and he gained more . Yet lower igf?
That's because it's not all about the igf.
There's something else going on with pharmacy gh.

Idk what to believe. I saw an ansomne test (a guy that tests many things) and it had 9.5 iu or something hgh in a 10 iu vial.
so I'm not saying things aren't gh.
But something is going on different in the body.
It's almost as if generic it's bovine somatotropin.

And there's a reason people have to take breaks from generic hgh vs pharmacy.

First of all, Jin is not long gone; its being produced, just very tightly controlled.

Secondly, you are saying that there is a different mechanism of action with pharma GH. Perhaps you can explain how this is possible.

Lastly, you state that maybe generic GH is bovine somatotropin. Yeah, thats it, we are all taking bovine somatotropin. MOOOO!!!

 

[rAJJIN]

First of all, Jin is not long gone; its being produced, just very tightly controlled.



Secondly, you are saying that there is a different mechanism of action with pharma GH. Perhaps you can explain how this is possible.



Lastly, you state that maybe generic GH is bovine somatotropin. Yeah, thats it, we are all taking bovine somatotropin. MOOOO!!!

Paragraph # 2 is what I would like to see.
I keep hearing of this special 3d structure, and the conversation stops there.
Let's get some
More facts and information on this 3D specialized formula. Maybe it is then one that makes bodybuilders LOOK 3d lol

Guys hear something and then pass it on as the truth because so and so says it.
Well explain it?

 

[nfernoo]

Then let's see some explanations why
you need to stop generic hgh after a certain period, vs pharma.
it's hgh, it's made with the same process a d yada yada. Right?

Let's explain why pinks results are better despite igf levels.

 

[rAJJIN]

Of course it's better.
I am not doubting that. It's pharmacy grade and it's 97% pure or higher.
But $ per $ there is no doubt china rules the hgh market for bodybuilders. For the last decade.

 

[nfernoo]

Of course it's better.
I am not doubting that. It's pharmacy grade and it's 97% pure or higher.
But $ per $ there is no doubt china rules the hgh market for bodybuilders. For the last decade.

Agreed.

 

[muscle96ss]

Then let's see some explanations why
you need to stop generic hgh after a certain period, vs pharma.
it's hgh, it's made with the same process a d yada yada. Right?

Let's explain why pinks results are better despite igf levels.

Who says you need stop taking generic GH after a certain period versus pharma? You are stating a lot of things in your posts as if they are given facts as opposed to just something you have read or heard.

You remind of the the guys when I was younger who would read the muscle magazines every month and then swear that they knew the workout routine of Ronnie Coleman because it was printed in the magazine. And would swear about how great Muscletech products were because of all the science behind them.

I don't mean this as a negative as it is great that you are reading and learning. But as you get older you will learn that a lot of what you read is complete bullshit and you will learn how to recognize what is real and what is bullshit better.

 

[nfernoo]

Who says you need stop taking generic GH after a certain period versus pharma? You are stating a lot of things in your posts as if they are given facts as opposed to just something you have read or heard.

You remind of the the guys when I was younger who would read the muscle magazines every month and then swear that they knew the workout routine of Ronnie Coleman because it was printed in the magazine. And would swear about how great Muscletech products were because of all the science behind them.

I don't mean this as a negative as it is great that you are reading and learning. But as you get older you will learn that a lot of what you read is complete bullshit and you will learn how to recognize what is real and what is bullshit better.

I see your point but I base this off bodybuilder experience.
And i don't wanna say too much on purpose.

 

[tay]

I have always thought it was possible that these generic gh manufacterers could be spiking their gh with igf....perhaps a serum on both the pharma and generic should be done as well for comparison.

Bingo ^... Not going to give out names but I know some " companies " did this on purpose because they knew people are going to test their kits out so they made sure to use peptides to spike specific things on the serum to make the client be "OK" with it...

 

[muscle96ss]

Bingo ^... Not going to give out names but I know some " companies " did this on purpose because they knew people are going to test their kits out so they made sure to use peptides to spike specific things on the serum to make the client be "OK" with it...

Yeah, I suppose that the Chinese GH manufacturers have been reading up here on Professional Muscle and realized that us amercicans are doing serum tests. So they decided to purposely spike the GH with peptides. Only problem was that those Chinese can't keep their mouths shut and told their american friends about it, and now they are onto them.

The funny thing is that there aren't any peptides that will make enough of a difference on a serum test taken roughly 3 hours after injection. I wish people would look at things more logically and not sit and believe every BS rumour out there.

 

[nfernoo]

Yeah, I suppose that the Chinese GH manufacturers have been reading up here on Professional Muscle and realized that us amercicans are doing serum tests. So they decided to purposely spike the GH with peptides. Only problem was that those Chinese can't keep their mouths shut and told their american friends about it, and now they are onto them.

The funny thing is that there aren't any peptides that will make enough of a difference on a serum test taken roughly 3 hours after injection. I wish people would look at things more logically and not sit and believe every BS rumour out there.

And what youre saying isnt rumor?

 

[muscle96ss]

And what youre saying isnt rumor?

Well then post up some facts!!! Why is it so hard for everyone to believe that China has the technology to produce GH. I mean seriously, I don't get it. Guys there are LEGIT GH manufacturing facilities in China. And guess what they produce, you got it, they produce GH. You guys act like China is some 3rd world country incapable of manufacturing things when in reality everything is made in China(and much cheaper than in the US). I don't disagree with the lack of trust of some of the things that come from China, but just because there are some bad apples doesn't mean the whole tree is bad.

Now you are suggesting that a LEGIT factory in China that is capable of producing GH is actually putting peptides in their GH to fool our serum tests. Now lets look at this a little closer. You have a company that is most likely selling a 100iu kit wholesale for roughly $90, which is $9 per 10iu vial(and that is the wholesale selling price). I don't know what the actual cost is to the manufacturer, but as you can see it is very little for a simple 10iu vial. So then why would this factory whose main function is to produce GH, then spend money to put a different peptide in the vial instead. If someone were to attempt to do this, it would be a vendor who doesn't have the capability of manufacturing GH that is trying to cash in on the GH market. But no legit GH manufacturing facility is going to do this, it just doesn't make sense.

By the way nfernoo, please show me what peptide will cause a substantial increase on a serum GH test 3 hours post injection. People keep talking about this conspiracy theory, but NOBODY has yet to produce any evidence that a peptide like this even exists!!!

So I am calling you out nfernoo so to speak, you say it isn't rumour; well lets see some facts. Because until someone can substantiate a claim with facts, its nothing but rumour. And please don't insinuate that you are privy to some special information that you cannot post, as you referenced earlier.

 

[ricky23]

until we can mass spec and test the structure of generics we're all just going on speculation either way.

what i will say though is someone i know had a large order of rips seized about a year ago and customs wrote to him confirming they tested the product due to concerns over it and results showed 191aa somatropin so they seized it.
don't know what they're testing process was but thats what they said.

also about it being laced with igf-1? that still doesn't explain the high gh serums and we can test for IGFBP3 which will show free IGF-1 and how much roughly is inactive due to protein binding.

cheap poorly synthesized igf-1 afaik will be inactive despite increasing serum numbers.

also Ronnie T from juicedmuscle (has no apparent affiliation to anyone) SDS tested some generics and pharma for band structure of the gh and compared them.
grey tops tested good, accurately dosed 191 not dissimilar to pharma.

i can post the link but not sure if its allowed.

anyway, i think most generics are shit. but the select few (from TP and HK rips but now grey's) are properly made 191aa gh.
...i do suspect though that purity is much lower than where it should be though but thats just a guess and shouldn't effect gh efficacy.
i remember datbtrue confirming this back in the day too.

 

[ricky23]

i still cant explain though why pharma is superior to generic!

6ius seros of geno's over 10ius of rips, hyges, etc.
somastims were great but still not pharma level of fullness or skin benefits.

rips were the closest in terms of fullness and actual tissue growth but had to wait for the water to come off to even see the results of fat loss etc.
and i would still prefer 5-6ius pharma over 10-12ius old rips.

that doesn't mean generics are not 191aa gh, maybe purity does play a bigger part than we thought after all?

really difficult to find a straight answer for this.
but all i know is that price-benefit ratio definitely puts generic in the lead (good quality generic though, not some random blue top shit)

 

[vegas83]

Well then post up some facts!!! Why is it so hard for everyone to believe that China has the technology to produce GH. I mean seriously, I don't get it. Guys there are LEGIT GH manufacturing facilities in China. And guess what they produce, you got it, they produce GH. You guys act like China is some 3rd world country incapable of manufacturing things when in reality everything is made in China(and much cheaper than in the US). I don't disagree with the lack of trust of some of the things that come from China, but just because there are some bad apples doesn't mean the whole tree is bad.

Now you are suggesting that a LEGIT factory in China that is capable of producing GH is actually putting peptides in their GH to fool our serum tests. Now lets look at this a little closer. You have a company that is most likely selling a 100iu kit wholesale for roughly $90, which is $9 per 10iu vial(and that is the wholesale selling price). I don't know what the actual cost is to the manufacturer, but as you can see it is very little for a simple 10iu vial. So then why would this factory whose main function is to produce GH, then spend money to put a different peptide in the vial instead. If someone were to attempt to do this, it would be a vendor who doesn't have the capability of manufacturing GH that is trying to cash in on the GH market. But no legit GH manufacturing facility is going to do this, it just doesn't make sense.

By the way nfernoo, please show me what peptide will cause a substantial increase on a serum GH test 3 hours post injection. People keep talking about this conspiracy theory, but NOBODY has yet to produce any evidence that a peptide like this even exists!!!

So I am calling you out nfernoo so to speak, you say it isn't rumour; well lets see some facts. Because until someone can substantiate a claim with facts, its nothing but rumour. And please don't insinuate that you are privy to some special information that you cannot post, as you referenced earlier.

China is a 3rd world country. Just sayin'. And I agree with you on the peptide rumor...thats BS. But one thing you are lacking in your arguments is actual experience. Go to China. Do business in China. Make friends with The Party. Then you will start to realize that the Chinese will do ANYTHING to get over on people. Everything is a smoke screen and nothing is what it seems. And you are right, they have the means to produce whatever they want. Its a pretty scary thought, especially when introducing a substance from a shitty Chinese economic standard into the human body. My 2 cents.