Insulin Year Round

[VakarianSK]

It doesn't make sense to me

Vigorous Steve can explain it better than me. I pulled this from his insulin e book. Which is a really good read.

"Lowering blood glucose levels during cardio increases Glucagon secretion to
liberate glycogen stores from the liver & fatty acids (including glycerol) from
the fat reserves. Ideally, perform low-intensity steady-state cardio on a
recumbent bike while blood glucose drops to moderately dizzying
concentrations. Your initial response will be to slam a Gatorade, Pedialyte, or
coconut water. Instead, you continue to ride out this uncomfortable feeling,
given your blood glucose is still over 60mg/dL or 3.3mmol/L, until Glucagon
raises blood glucose levels again by releasing stored glycogen or by converting
the glycerol backbone from liberated body fat reserves through
gluconeogenesis."

 

[luki7788]

Vigorous Steve can explain it better than me. I pulled this from his insulin e book. Which is a really good read.

"Lowering blood glucose levels during cardio increases Glucagon secretion to
liberate glycogen stores from the liver & fatty acids (including glycerol) from
the fat reserves. Ideally, perform low-intensity steady-state cardio on a
recumbent bike while blood glucose drops to moderately dizzying
concentrations. Your initial response will be to slam a Gatorade, Pedialyte, or
coconut water. Instead, you continue to ride out this uncomfortable feeling,
given your blood glucose is still over 60mg/dL or 3.3mmol/L, until Glucagon
raises blood glucose levels again by releasing stored glycogen or by converting
the glycerol backbone from liberated body fat reserves through
gluconeogenesis."

but I know what the theory is behind it - but I say that it makes no sense to me and is unnecessary

 

[VakarianSK]

but I know what the theory is behind it - but I say that it makes no sense to me and is unnecessary

Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood what you meant, my apologies.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

Oh yeah I fully agree with you and @Gunsmith I only do this because I just like the way I feel and look with the insulin. But I just wanted to make sure it would not cause long term damage and lead to a diabetic diagnosis in the future if I only did insulin pre workout without ever taking a break?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't want to come off like I'm speaking from a high horse here. I am one of those guys that spends a lot of time researching every little minitua regarding to PEDs, Training, Nutrition etc, sometimes forgetting the big picture for the details, thinking that there is still this secret out there that will finally make me big and shredded like Ronnie .

It is just such a fascinating topic you can lose yourself into. That's why it is nice we have so many experienced guys here on PM, that can chime in with the proven stuff - which is mostly just the boring basics we all pretty much know already.

 

[VakarianSK]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't want to come off like I'm speaking from a high horse here. I am one of those guys that spends a lot of time researching every little minitua regarding to PEDs, Training, Nutrition etc, sometimes forgetting the big picture for the details, thinking that there is still this secret out there that will finally make me big and shredded like Ronnie .

It is just such a fascinating topic you can lose yourself into. That's why it is nice we have so many experienced guys here on PM, that can chime in with the proven stuff - which is mostly just the boring basics we all pretty much know already.

Yeah I'm the same way . Even if I don't find any kind of secret or anything (and I doubt I will) I just genuinely love trying different things and researching as much as I can because it's just so fascinating to me lol.

 

[jaxino]

Vigorous Steve can explain it better than me. I pulled this from his insulin e book. Which is a really good read.

"Lowering blood glucose levels during cardio increases Glucagon secretion to
liberate glycogen stores from the liver & fatty acids (including glycerol) from
the fat reserves. Ideally, perform low-intensity steady-state cardio on a
recumbent bike while blood glucose drops to moderately dizzying
concentrations. Your initial response will be to slam a Gatorade, Pedialyte, or
coconut water. Instead, you continue to ride out this uncomfortable feeling,
given your blood glucose is still over 60mg/dL or 3.3mmol/L, until Glucagon
raises blood glucose levels again by releasing stored glycogen or by converting
the glycerol backbone from liberated body fat reserves through
gluconeogenesis."

You shouldn't take Vigorous Steve so seriously.
He speaks like he knows a lot about bb and drugs but most of his knowledge is not to build freaks like for example for @luki7788 .
You have also to add that Steve is very conservative and stubborn on many ideas.


Insulin before fasted cardio it's completely useless, your body just needs activity not a secret insulin protocol to drop body fat.... Because your fasted blood glucose will be lower.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I have been taking insulin continuously at least twice a day for about 9 years - my insulin sensitivity is great and this is mainly because I use insulin correctly.

I avoided insulin for most of my bodybuilding existence… but when I used it in 2017, the small amount I used (humalog) only did good things. I didn’t get fat, it actually helped me digest food, and I didn’t become insulin resistant.

I just started experimenting with Lantus and some supplemental humalog. I’m up to 280lbs, leaner than I’ve ever been at this weight, waist didn’t grow, gut didn’t grow, and no issues whatsoever.

People really have to be fucking this up, not paying attention to their body, or using way too much food/insulin to think it’s a bad thing.

 

[VakarianSK]

You shouldn't take Vigorous Steve so seriously.
He speaks like he knows a lot about bb and drugs but most of his knowledge is not to build freaks like for example for @luki7788 .
You have also to add that Steve is very conservative and stubborn on many ideas.


Insulin before fasted cardio it's completely useless, your body just needs activity not a secret insulin protocol to drop body fat.... Because your fasted blood glucose will be lower.

You do raise good points. I don't take his word as gospel. I like to collect information from a variety of sources and maybe try a few different things and then form my own conclusion. For me it's kind of a game of "what can I find works best for me through trial and error".

 

[Palifter]

I avoided insulin for most of my bodybuilding existence… but when I used it in 2017, the small amount I used (humalog) only did good things. I didn’t get fat, it actually helped me digest food, and I didn’t become insulin resistant.

I just started experimenting with Lantus and some supplemental humalog. I’m up to 280lbs, leaner than I’ve ever been at this weight, waist didn’t grow, gut didn’t grow, and no issues whatsoever.

People really have to be fucking this up, not paying attention to their body, or using way too much food/insulin to think it’s a bad thing.

How are you implementing both Lantus and Log?

 

[Wolf79]

I wouldn't take into account the protocols of Steve, Jewett and half of the trainers from the UK. they use small doses of lantus to relieve the pancreas, even if their client eats 400g of carbohydrates a day. what is the burden on the pancreas? . A dose as small as 15-20 IU of lantus will provide us with almost no anabolic benefits.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

How are you implementing both Lantus and Log?

I’ve been doing 20-30iu PM of Lantus, and 1-2 doses of 10iu humalog near training sessions. Humalog is typically PostWO because I don’t like using much preWO (even though my intra is fairly high carb).

I had been holding around 270 prior to this. With no other changes, I’m now in the 277-281 range. Fuller, better digestion, more clear headed, and a little tighter. Pumps are pretty crazy.

My GH dose has been around 4.5-6iu ED (Meditrope).

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I wouldn't take into account the protocols of Steve, Jewett and half of the trainers from the UK. they use small doses of lantus to relieve the pancreas, even if their client eats 400g of carbohydrates a day. what is the burden on the pancreas? . A dose as small as 15-20 IU of lantus will provide us with almost no anabolic benefits.

It’s not intended to be a game changer as a standalone.

 

[Palifter]

I’ve been doing 20-30iu PM of Lantus, and 1-2 doses of 10iu humalog near training sessions. Humalog is typically PostWO because I don’t like using much preWO (even though my intra is fairly high carb).

I had been holding around 270 prior to this. With no other changes, I’m now in the 277-281 range. Fuller, better digestion, more clear headed, and a little tighter. Pumps are pretty crazy.

My GH dose has been around 4.5-6iu ED (Meditrope).

Awesome to hear.

My current protocol for GH and slin is almost identical to yours. I’ve really been liking the addition of Lantus.

 

[mslmn]

I’ve been doing 20-30iu PM of Lantus, and 1-2 doses of 10iu humalog near training sessions. Humalog is typically PostWO because I don’t like using much preWO (even though my intra is fairly high carb).

I had been holding around 270 prior to this. With no other changes, I’m now in the 277-281 range. Fuller, better digestion, more clear headed, and a little tighter. Pumps are pretty crazy.

My GH dose has been around 4.5-6iu ED (Meditrope).

Are you taking Lantus daily or training days? I've only done it on training days(4 x week) in the morning, which I liked, but thought about trying it at night prior to training day.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Are you taking Lantus daily or training days? I've only done it on training days(4 x week) in the morning, which I liked, but thought about trying it at night prior to training day.

5 days a week. I take 1-2 days off GH each week for vanity purposes. My RHR also lowers the 2 days I take off. I just take the Lantus on GH days.

No real science’y reason. Just a feel thing.

When I’m not taking GH and Lantus, my carb intake also goes low.

 

[VakarianSK]

5 days a week. I take 1-2 days off GH each week for vanity purposes. My RHR also lowers the 2 days I take off. I just take the Lantus on GH days.

No real science’y reason. Just a feel thing.

When I’m not taking GH and Lantus, my carb intake also goes low.

Do you also reduce carbs on your off days? That's what I usually do. I'll just for go my intra and post workout carbs on days I don't train.

 

[mslmn]

5 days a week. I take 1-2 days off GH each week for vanity purposes. My RHR also lowers the 2 days I take off. I just take the Lantus on GH days.

No real science’y reason. Just a feel thing.

When I’m not taking GH and Lantus, my carb intake also goes low.

Same here. After years of experience, you can pretty much go by instincts.

 

[juggy38]

To the OP: the bottleneck of fat loss derived from cardio is rarely liberation of fatty acids, but fat the preferential oxidation of those over glucose. It is well established that insulin acutely suppresses fatty acid oxidation.

 

[jaxino]

If our pancreas makes already 1-2iu every hour what's the point of using just 30iu Lantus?

Isn't better to use a Fast Acting insulin around workouts and maybe drop a high dose of Lantus on high carb days (1-2 days a week)?

I’ve been doing 20-30iu PM of Lantus, and 1-2 doses of 10iu humalog near training sessions. Humalog is typically PostWO because I don’t like using much preWO (even though my intra is fairly high carb).

I had been holding around 270 prior to this. With no other changes, I’m now in the 277-281 range. Fuller, better digestion, more clear headed, and a little tighter. Pumps are pretty crazy.

My GH dose has been around 4.5-6iu ED (Meditrope).

Why you inject Lantus PM? Usually i see it used before bed or first thing AM.

I don't know why but every time i inject 10-20iu Lantus before bed my fasted glucose readings raises by 10-15 points, like from 70ish to 85ish. Maybe is that dawn effect?

 

[luki7788]

If our pancreas makes already 1-2iu every hour what's the point of using just 30iu Lantus?

Isn't better to use a Fast Acting insulin around workouts and maybe drop a high dose of Lantus on high carb days (1-2 days a week)?


Why you inject Lantus PM? Usually i see it used before bed or first thing AM.

I don't know why but every time i inject 10-20iu Lantus before bed my fasted glucose readings raises by 10-15 points, like from 70ish to 85ish. Maybe is that dawn effect?

I used 10-15iu lantus before bed during my pancreatitis and it helped me tremendously