"King" of AAS - TEST

[Jasons1985]

Had the best "look" on 300 mg test e a week.

 

[Kaladryn]

there is no such thing as desensitization.
the amount of androgen receptors actually INCREASE the MORE steroids you use.

if youre talking about homeostasis measures of your body (increasing myostatin, SHBG, cortisol etc) then yes, this happens.

but not desensitization regarding receptors or whatever

I don't think you fully understand receptor upregulation, more AR means you need more hormone to fill them all, just to get the same effect. If one person has 50 receptors, and the other guy has 100 receptors, the guy with more needs twice as much hormone to get the same effect.

There isn't some kind of "increased effect" from receptor upregulation, it in itself is a form of "desensitization."

 

[Cerberus777]

I don't think you fully understand receptor upregulation, more AR means you need more hormone to fill them all, just to get the same effect. If one person has 50 receptors, and the other guy has 100 receptors, the guy with more needs twice as much hormone to get the same effect.

There isn't some kind of "increased effect" from receptor upregulation, it in itself is a form of "desensitization."

Most don't get upregulation. it's like cocaine, cause upregulation and increased dopamine receptors to meet the demand. Long term use leaves most apathetic to normal happy stimulus.

 

[tweeder]

The new generation on PM is to involved with high doses. I look at the avatars and then see people talking about 1 gram 1.5 gram and its like really bro?

Its not like it use to be. People don't understand or know what there doing.

I would have to agree with you on this. My first cycle 9 years ago ran at 400mg/week, wonderful results with little side effects. The biggest mistake I made since than was listening to other misinformed people, and going for a cycle that included 1250mg of Testosterone. Results were ok, no better than my previous max dosage of 750mg (and that even was probably too high for me at the time). The issues came with trouble keeping up with the side effects. Even with steady use for proper aromatase inhibitors, I continually had to keep changing dosages of the AIs to keep sex drive up and minimize estrogen related side effects. I always run blood vitals after every steroid cycle, and the dosage at 1250mg was the only one that ever raised major concern from my doctor.

 

[little slice]

I don't think you fully understand receptor upregulation, more AR means you need more hormone to fill them all, just to get the same effect. If one person has 50 receptors, and the other guy has 100 receptors, the guy with more needs twice as much hormone to get the same effect.

There isn't some kind of "increased effect" from receptor upregulation, it in itself is a form of "desensitization."

it sure would be nice if the more you took, the more sensitive you got.. lol

 

[Millineum Man]

*FIST BUMP* BOOM! *FIZZLE*

here is some food for thought on the functionality and increased effectiveness on our androgen receptors... even though I will still maintain the opinion the more muscle tissue you have the more receptors you... still looking for studies etc to prove as fact but anyways here ya go...

Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. - PubMed - NCBI

The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. - PubMed - NCBI

and as options for carnitine if price is an issue... let your body manufacture it from a cheaper amino lysine...

Lysine-carnitine conversion in normal and undernourished adult men-suggestion of a nonpeptidyl pathway. - PubMed - NCBI

I have some of this sitting on the shelf on my closet. I read the research a few years ago and decided to give it a try. I used 1.5g before and 1.5g after my workout. I felt much stronger during my workouts and recovered easily between. GREAT stuff! I highly recommend it!!!

 

[ManoftheWorld]

it sure would be nice if the more you took, the more sensitive you got.. lol

Thats my friend is what estrogen is LOL

 

[ManoftheWorld]

I think there is a big difference if some guy is running 1500/wk of test over another guy who is taking just 500/wk test but is throwing in 4-600/wk of deca/EQ, 30-50/day of dbol or 100+/day drols or as newer generations, 50-100mg/day of var? a lot of times the stacked doses of drugs if not equal far exceed the amount of test and opens doors to more possible complications..

IMO orals are way more taxing on the body in every way than say just test or test with a second moderate dosed drug like deca at 300-500/wk,.. of course nowadays with UGL being questionable, there can be a guy who claims he is running 1.5/wk test he may be running only 500-1000/wk, with out labs there is no way to tell.. unless say one has had HG at some point and knows first hand how much they really are taking

For the genuine guys who've worked up their doses of legit test, myself included, IMO the majority usually keep it simple and dont bother with orals or many other drugs in the mix and generally have less issues than most do who are mixing their cycles etc with orals and other drugs... like the guys who suffer the prevalent appetite suppression of orals after taking them for a while, for example, I for sure never have that issue at any point when running 1.5/wk of just test..

What I find disturbing personally is the guys who run all the other non-test drugs at crazy doses.. 1g/wk of tren, or 50-100mg/day of var... that to me is just mind boggling and asking for serious health problems...

 

[Jizzmo]

I don't think you fully understand receptor upregulation, more AR means you need more hormone to fill them all, just to get the same effect. If one person has 50 receptors, and the other guy has 100 receptors, the guy with more needs twice as much hormone to get the same effect.

There isn't some kind of "increased effect" from receptor upregulation, it in itself is a form of "desensitization."

Most don't get upregulation. it's like cocaine, cause upregulation and increased dopamine receptors to meet the demand. Long term use leaves most apathetic to normal happy stimulus.

androgen receptors have half lives of a FEW HOURS.
your body BUILDS androgen receptors to meet the demand of the high amount of testosterone that you inject.
inject more testosterone = your body builds more receptors.

its not like dropping the dosage causes you to be off with LESS activated receptors for more than like a day.
comparing testosterone to cocaine
inject less testosterone = your body builds less receptors.

more AAS = more receptors
less AAS = less receptors

 

[ManoftheWorld]

androgen receptors have half lives of a FEW HOURS.
your body BUILDS androgen receptors to meet the demand of the high amount of testosterone that you inject.
inject more testosterone = your body builds more receptors.

its not like dropping the dosage causes you to be off with LESS activated receptors for more than like a day.
comparing testosterone to cocaine
inject less testosterone = your body builds less receptors.

more AAS = more receptors
less AAS = less receptors

I dont find this very accurate.. i think you need to have the actual muscle and meat on your bones to support more receptors... i know when around 260 1g or 1250 max was my limit... used adex or letro frequent to keep things managed etc.. now present day i avg 290+, havent trained close to year now cuz of baby being on way but i can push 1.5g/wk and need minimal AI.. my strength endurance recovery etc is olympic level lol now i still occasionally push slin since i have my carb binge moments and wifes craving didnt help cuz not like she wants to binge alone... but dont want to feel like bloated fat shit the next day but other wise ive acquired enough mass to safely use the high test... and if ur wondering wtf 1.5g/wk with no training etc. Well my wife was high risk, my sleep was shit and i still had responsibilties to tend to around house etc so some everyday performanve enhancement with anti catabolic assistance is what i elected... and in case there is question on why not lower dose etc for same benefit. the alpha edge of get ur ass up and out and handle business was much more prevalent at the 1.5g/wk and with my circumstances genuinely required such since i sure as fuck wasnt going to let my wife and family down... ive been in game over 15yrs.. tried majortity of all PEDs just to be curious, which for my body helped me learn what works and i suggest everyone just man up and do since no ther way to find out... but again cant stress enough if over time i didnt accustom my body to the increased dosing i would most likely be in a heap of shit with an out break of ravishing side effects... especially the one all fears and thats gyno.. you can bloat you can spike ur bp but once you develop gyno its a whole dif ball game plain amd simple...and very very few options besides just plain surgery depending on your fate...

 

[Jizzmo]

i dont disagree with you, however this doesnt go against what i say at all regarding receptors.
of course i agree with you on the fact that in the beginning you can use less to gain and over time you need more.

however in my opinion you should ALWAYS use an AI with test dosages upwards of 500mg, no matter how big or heavy you are - chances are if youre on the heavier side youre on the fattier side aswell (in general, not towards you) and therefore you have more aromatase.

the body doesnt get used to high dosages of testosterone over time by means of aromatizing less...
time is not a factor regarding estrogen conversion, bodyfat is.

 

[Damios]

You Guys mean that while bulking ( clean/dirty, never mind which one cuz it's all about diet ) You prefer run higher dose and while cutting lower dose. So what's are Your doses when You want to add muscle mass and when You want to stay in great shape?

What was Your highest Test dose when You were shredded?

 

[Kaladryn]

androgen receptors have half lives of a FEW HOURS.
your body BUILDS androgen receptors to meet the demand of the high amount of testosterone that you inject.
inject more testosterone = your body builds more receptors.

its not like dropping the dosage causes you to be off with LESS activated receptors for more than like a day.
comparing testosterone to cocaine
inject less testosterone = your body builds less receptors.

more AAS = more receptors
less AAS = less receptors

This isn't accurate, the halflife of the AR is completely moot. You are just arguing now, you are way in over your head knowledge wise. It takes many, many years of AAS use to build up receptor density to handle higher doses. We don't even fully understand the limiting role things like cobinding factors may cause also.

I have been researching and debating this subject for several decades with the likes of Duchaine and PA, but maybe you know more.

 

[Kaladryn]

the body doesnt get used to high dosages of testosterone over time by means of aromatizing less...
time is not a factor regarding estrogen conversion, bodyfat is.

Also inaccurate, almost every AAS user suffers from some degree of hyperactive aromatase. Bodyfat doesn't come into play as much as you might think, aromatase is contained inside of fat cells, fat cells never change in number, only in size. Sure you can pull studies on obese people with high E2, but that doesn't apply to the average bodybuilder.

 

[Jizzmo]

This isn't accurate, the halflife of the AR is completely moot. You are just arguing now, you are way in over your head knowledge wise. It takes many, many years of AAS use to build up receptor density to handle higher doses. We don't even fully understand the limiting role things like cobinding factors may cause also.

I have been researching and debating this subject for several decades with the likes of Duchaine and PA, but maybe you know more.

No need to be condescending. there are plenty of studies on androgen receptors and the influence of androgens. especially with R1881 (methyltrienolone).

Mechanism of androgen-receptor augmentation. Analysis of receptor synthesis and degradation by the density-shift technique. - PubMed - NCBI (also see the full article)
Regulation of the androgen receptor by androgen in normal and androgen-resistant genital skin fibroblasts. - PubMed - NCBI

androgen receptors are extremely short lived.

what i agree on is that there definitely are longer lasting effects, but these are NOT connected to the androgen receptor, but to the makeup of myonuclei / satellite cells.
see Testosterone propionate can have permanent effect on muscles, says animal study

 

[Kaladryn]

however in my opinion you should ALWAYS use an AI with test dosages upwards of 500mg, no matter how big or heavy you are

You should always use an AI with test, it doesn't matter the amount. The only exception would be people trying to do absolute minimum daily dosing. Anything over 100mg/week and almost everyone will need an AI, especially AAS users that all have some degree of hyperactive aromatase.

Remember estradiol level alone is meaningless, E2 and T compete at the receptor due to cobinding factors, it is the RELATIVE level of E2 and T that matters.

 

[Jizzmo]

Also inaccurate, almost every AAS user suffers from some degree of hyperactive aromatase. Bodyfat doesn't come into play as much as you might think, aromatase is contained inside of fat cells, fat cells never change in number, only in size. Sure you can pull studies on obese people with high E2, but that doesn't apply to the average bodybuilder.

youre completely missing my point. what im saying is that after 3 weeks of running 2 grams of test your body WILL NOT aromatize more than after 10 years of running 2 grams of test. there is no accustomization.

OF COURSE high doses of test will INEVITABLY lead to high aromatization for almost everyone. i never disagreed on that.

You should always use an AI with test, it doesn't matter the amount. The only exception would be people trying to do absolute minimum daily dosing. Anything over 100mg/week and almost everyone will need an AI, especially AAS users that all have some degree of hyperactive aromatase.

Remember estradiol level alone is meaningless, E2 and T compete at the receptor due to cobinding factors, it is the RELATIVE level of E2 and T that matters.

i completely agree.
i also think that T/E2 RATIO is much much more important than most think, and also much more important than estrogen/e2 levels per se

 

[MonkeyBoy]

I have always ran Test C/P as my base for all my cycles. Love it.

Highest I ever went up was 1G but I felt there was not much of a difference at 750mg so that is my sweet spot.

 

[nothuman]

about 2gms of test.
using higher doses during cutting seems most logical. from what I have read this is also what Bboy and Mountaindog and countless other pros and top guys do as well.
F2S

You remained shredded on 2g of test? No water retention?

 

[SANDMAN1986]

1500 Test E a week is the most I can take, any more and I feel like shit, made great gains thats for sure