LBA's

EDED · Mar 10, 2009

glycerol and water hydrates you alot, your blood volume increases so maybe your heart has to pump alittle more? check your blood pressure next time or something

homonunculus · Mar 10, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
3. Hydrolyzed Beef Collagen is a GREAT protein source.....hospitals are now using it in the burn ward for recovery. Did you not read the latest studies?

Phil, which of these are the most important studies?... (Could you post them?...)

4. Did Shelby Starnes or Lyle Macdonald use it exclusively for their IFBB Pro Card?

WRT to this- I think folks are concerned that hydrolyzed collagen (aka gelatin) is an incomplete protein (lacking tryptophan altogether). (I didn't know either of those guys had earned pro cards... Heck, I didn't know that Lyle has even competed as a BB'er....

)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin

"Although gelatin is 98-99% protein by dry weight, it has less nutritional value than many other protein sources. Gelatin is unusually high in the non-essential amino acids glycine and proline, (i.e., those produced by the human body), while lacking certain essential amino acids (i.e., those not produced by the human body). It contains no tryptophan and is deficient in isoleucine, threonine, and methionine. The approximate amino acid composition of gelatin is: glycine 21%, proline 12%, hydroxyproline 12%, glutamic acid 10%, alanine 9%, arginine 8%, aspartic acid 6%, lysine 4%, serine 4%, leucine 3%, valine 2%, phenylalanine 2%, threonine 2%, isoleucine 1%,hydroxylysine 1%, methionine and histidine <1% and tyrosine <0.5%. These values vary, especially the minor constituents, depending on the source of the raw material and processing technique.[9]

Gelatin is one of the few foods that cause a net loss of protein if eaten exclusively. In the 1970s, several people died of malnutrition while on popular liquid protein diets. [10]

For decades, gelatin has been touted as a good source of protein. It has also been said to strengthen nails and hair. [1] [2] However, there is little scientific evidence to support such an assertion, one which may be traced back to Knox's revolutionary marketing techniques of the 1890s, when it was advertised that gelatin contains protein and that lack of protein causes dry, deformed nails. In fact, the human body itself produces abundant amounts of the proteins found in gelatin. Furthermore, dry nails are usually due to a lack of moisture, not protein."

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Thoughts on the above?...

EDED said:
glycerol and water hydrates you alot, your blood volume increases so maybe your heart has to pump alittle more? check your blood pressure next time or something

I dunno that that would be the case. Increasing blood volume would heart filling and thus stroke volume (Frank-Starling mechanism), which would tend to decrease heart rate... If HR is increasing, though, BP would prob. go up.

-S

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Thoughts

My initial thought just skimming through is that
1. I cant believe you are referencing Wikipedia..........for the wrong product
2. You are refering to Knox gelatin that I can buy in a box at Safeway.
3. Have you ever tried LBAs? As a supplement......not as a SOLE source?
4. Randy, I promote this product because I used it exclusively when I won the USA.........I use it exclusively now.....Maybe check with a company that makes this product and processes it........that would be your best bet because they can tell you what they do/add to it to make it the product that it is today.
5. I understand that as a SOLE source of protein, it would not be ideal......I recommend its use between meals with with a glass of water..........and a good whey or cassein or food protein source for your meals.........but again, it is a great source of protein............not SOLE SOURCE, but a great source. I cahllenge tyou to find something that proves otherwise.

loganb_football · Mar 10, 2009

homonunculus said:
I dunno that that would be the case. Increasing blood volume would heart filling and thus stroke volume (Frank-Starling mechanism), which would tend to decrease heart rate... If HR is increasing, though, BP would prob. go up.

-S

I just read what you put homonunculus, and I'm editing this as it would be reiterating you have already pointed out if I were to keep this up.... Sorry, I misread your comment the first time!

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

A thought

My experience is that it would be unwise to use ANY ONE protein source as your ONLY source of protein............diversity is the key. I also should clarify......When I say exclusively.........I mean BY ITSELF as a protein supplement. I would eat my meals...........then LBAs between each meal......no other protein supplement.....that is what I recommend. When I won the USA..........I used NO OTHER SOURCE OF PROTEIN, just LBAs. Was it right? Well, it worked........would I have been bigger if I had eaten meals ( whey/cassein, food) and used LBAs between meals as I suggest now...........yes, most definately.

tkav1980 · Mar 10, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
My experience is that it would be unwise to use ANY ONE protein source as your ONLY source of protein............diversity is the key. I also should clarify......When I say exclusively.........I mean BY ITSELF as a protein supplement. I would eat my meals...........then LBAs between each meal......no other protein supplement.....that is what I recommend. When I won the USA..........I used NO OTHER SOURCE OF PROTEIN, just LBAs. Was it right? Well, it worked........would I have been bigger if I had eaten meals and used LBAs between meals as I suggest now...........yes, most definately.

Phil would using several protien sources be more beneficial because of a more complete amino profile?

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Well

tkav1980 said:
Phil would using several protien sources be more beneficial because of a more complete amino profile?

Not more complete but different......I feel you need different sources.....not necessarily more complete sources. Remember, the body can make complete from incompletes.........you do not need complete protein sources as long as you mix the right incompletes. I am unsure why so many are hung up on this idea and feel like it is the end all and be all of this sport..........beans and rice.......broccoli and rice.......peanut butter and bread........LBAs and rice...........LBAs and walnuts........LBAs and peanut butter.......LBAs and garlic.........seriously, ahaahahahha.....

tkav1980 · Mar 10, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
Not more complete but different......I feel you need different sources.....not necessarily more complete sources. Remember, the body can make complete from incompletes.........you do not need complete protein sources as long as you mix the right incompletes. I am unsure why so many are hung up on this idea and feel like it is the end all and be all of this sport..........beans and rice.......broccoli and rice.......peanut butter and bread........LBAs and rice...........LBAs and walnuts........LBAs and peanut butter.......LBAs and garlic.........seriously, ahaahahahha

actually i worded it poorly but thats what i was thinking. if you have all the pieces to the puzzle your body can assemble the puzzle from the parts. therefore no one thing is the silver bullet its a combination of the right parts that yeild the proper result.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Yes

tkav1980 said:
actually i worded it poorly but thats what i was thinking. if you have all the pieces to the puzzle your body can assemble the puzzle from the parts. therefore no one thing is the silver bullet its a combination of the right parts that yeild the proper result.

I believe that from experience........get something you can enjoy....thats easy to drink.....somewhat complete unless you are using it with other compatible sources..........something you can live with.

Phlmuscle · Mar 10, 2009

LBS's

I've been on LBA's for two months now, and I have to admit I am now a believer. Being skeptical, I continued to use whey protein powder (100 gms/day) and in addition, took 1 tablespoon of LBA's four times a day. I have never seen results like this before. I gained 10 lbs. of muscle, no water retention, and the definition in my chest and shoulders is like nothing I have ever experienced before. I went to Dante' site to order, but gave up because the site was not responding. I wound up buying All American EFX thru DPS Nutrition. Don't know which would have been better, but this worked for me.

homonunculus · Mar 10, 2009

Phil,

I'm still interested in any studies you can point me in the direction of.

PHIL HERNON said:
My initial thought just skimming through is that
1. I cant believe you are referencing Wikipedia..........for the wrong product.
2. You are refering to Knox gelatin that I can buy in a box at Safeway.

How does the protein source of LBA's differ from gelatin?

3. Have you ever tried LBAs? As a supplement......not as a SOLE source?

No. I haven't seen a reason to (this is just me), as of yet.

4. Randy, I promote this product because I used it exclusively when I won the USA.........I use it exclusively now.....Maybe check with a company that makes this product and processes it........that would be your best bet because they can tell you what they do/add to it to make it the product that it is today.

I can check with Dante on that (assuming you're referring to trueprotein as the product manufacturer). I figured you'd know...

5. I understand that as a SOLE source of protein, it would not be ideal......I recommend its use between meals with with a glass of water..........and a good whey or cassein or food protein source for your meals.........but again, it is a great source of protein............not SOLE SOURCE, but a great source. I cahllenge tyou to find something that proves otherwise.

Ah, I see you address a bit after this post - I understand now what you mean by "exclusively" in your prep for the USA's when you won your card. (I do agree that a supplement that makes increasing your protein intake easier can be useful in the context of a diet containing high quality protein sources.)

-What percentage of you protein was from LBA's back then when you won the USA's (and how many grams of protein from LBA's)? What percentage of your current protein intake is from LBA's?...

-Do you know if the LBA's from then (when you won the USA's) are produced in the same way now (e.g., what sells on trueprotein's site?...)? I.e., are the protein sources and methods of hydrolysis / preparation the same?... Are the LBA's from then the same as those of today?...

-Scott

Dangkolo · Mar 10, 2009

I have been using LBA's officially now for about one year straight. They have helped tremendously and I really don't know what I would do without them. I can say that I like trueprotein lba's best!

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Well

homonunculus said:
Phil,

I'm still interested in any studies you can point me in the direction of. You are good at research I believe......its easy to find...........you found one on gelatin.

How does the protein source of LBA's differ from gelatin? Processing......can you ask the processor.....I own a gym, I compete........I think you can find a more qualified person to ask.

No. I haven't seen a reason to (this is just me), as of yet. Why....not competing anymore?

I can check with Dante on that (assuming you're referring to trueprotein as the product manufacturer). I figured you'd know...I cant answer this......ask Dante please.

Ah, I see you address a bit after this post - I understand now what you mean by "exclusively" in your prep for the USA's when you won your card. (I do agree that a supplement that makes increasing your protein intake easier can be useful in the context of a diet containing high quality protein sources.)

-What percentage of you protein was from LBA's back then when you won the USA's (and how many grams of protein from LBA's)? What percentage of your current protein intake is from LBA's?... 100% then.......50% now.-

Do you know if the LBA's from then (when you won the USA's) are produced in the same way now (e.g., what sells on trueprotein's site?...)? I.e., are the protein sources and methods of hydrolysis / preparation the same?... Are the LBA's from then the same as those of today?...According to DAnte and according to my results yes, most definately.
-Scott

Does that answer?

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Homonunculous

Randy.....I am baffled as to why you would not experiment with these on yourself.....honestly I would think you of all people would be curious after seeing such great real world results...but again, you have no reason to and I accept that answer......to me its just a little odd..........science is about experimenting

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Homonunculus

Randy........just a question.....does it bother you that so many people are getting great results from this product? I am just curious because you seem so skeptical, and I know you have have read about a thousand threads on how effective LBAs are from 10, 000 people......I feel you are asking me questions you can easily find answers to for yourself with a little research........you do converse with Dante dont you? Would not he be better to ask in a PM? Am I missing something here?

joeshow5 · Mar 10, 2009

I think people would get similar results from glycerol and water, and the same or better results with glycerol and a good whey isolate.

I like the LBA's when I tried them, but did not really like the light wallet, so I started looking into the ingredients and realized I could get something better for less money.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Really?

joeshow5 said:
I think people would get similar results from glycerol and water, and the same or better results with glycerol and a good whey isolate.

I like the LBA's when I tried them, but did not really like the light wallet, so I started looking into the ingredients and realized I could get something better for less money.

Hey, give it a shot......you got any pics of yourself?

tkav1980 · Mar 10, 2009

i think everyone is over thinking this alittle. my understanding is that LBA's are a easily accessable, good tasting, fast acting, and convenient source of supplemented protien to be used in addition to a diet that is already set up to achieve your goals. almost like a t3 turbo charger in a car, the engine does all the work and the turbo just tops it off. and for the price i wouldnt see why anyone wouldnt give it a try and see for themselvs. if you try it and dont like it oh well you learned that it wasnt for you, they arent that expensive. if you try it and it works great well you found something that gives you results. the benefit factor out weighs the risk factor.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 10, 2009

Yes but....

tkav1980 said:
i think everyone is over thinking this alittle. my understanding is that LBA's are a easily accessable, good tasting, fast acting, and convenient source of supplemented protien to be used in addition to a diet that is already set up to achieve your goals. almost like a t3 turbo charger in a car, the engine does all the work and the turbo just tops it off. and for the price i wouldnt see why anyone wouldnt give it a try and see for themselvs. if you try it and dont like it oh well you learned that it wasnt for you, they arent that expensive. if you try it and it works great well you found something that gives you results. the benefit factor out weighs the risk factor.

Isnt that just a little too much common sense?

T TOTAL · Mar 10, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
My experience is that it would be unwise to use ANY ONE protein source as your ONLY source of protein............diversity is the key. I also should clarify......When I say exclusively.........I mean BY ITSELF as a protein supplement. I would eat my meals...........then LBAs between each meal......no other protein supplement.....that is what I recommend. When I won the USA..........I used NO OTHER SOURCE OF PROTEIN, just LBAs. Was it right? Well, it worked........would I have been bigger if I had eaten meals ( whey/cassein, food) and used LBAs between meals as I suggest now...........yes, most definately.

Therefore looking back Phil, although you won ( which may make it difficult to answer ) and knowing what you do now, would you of also had eaten food meals too??