Metformin year round?

[pupeye]

this is available over the counter?

 

[sma]

with some of the smartest minds ive seen on this board how is everybody not understanding the action of this drug. It makes you sensitive to insulin, hmm what others things do that , low carbs, cardio, yep you figured it out dieting. Which for building mass is counter productive. I get everyone wants to do two things at once believe me if I could I would surf the net while im driving, or get work done while my gf is talking to me but we all know that you will miss some shit. But yea you can still do it lol and if your girl has an attitude like mine you better be hoping you paid attention.

 

[Marvin Martian]

with some of the smartest minds ive seen on this board how is everybody not understanding the action of this drug. It makes you sensitive to insulin, hmm what others things do that , low carbs, cardio, yep you figured it out dieting. Which for building mass is counter productive. I get everyone wants to do two things at once believe me if I could I would surf the net while im driving, or get work done while my gf is talking to me but we all know that you will miss some shit. But yea you can still do it lol and if your girl has an attitude like mine you better be hoping you paid attention.

The last contest I did I grew a little as I dieted... I don't think that you have to "bulk" at all... In fact if you aren't seriously competing I think its pretty silly to have an "off season"... If you know what you are doing you can definitely lose BF while gaining some muscle..

AND - Its scary as hell but I saw a girl the other day surfing the net on her IPhone while driving!!!!

 

[yatyas314]

with some of the smartest minds ive seen on this board how is everybody not understanding the action of this drug. It makes you sensitive to insulin, hmm what others things do that , low carbs, cardio, yep you figured it out dieting. Which for building mass is counter productive. I get everyone wants to do two things at once believe me if I could I would surf the net while im driving, or get work done while my gf is talking to me but we all know that you will miss some shit. But yea you can still do it lol and if your girl has an attitude like mine you better be hoping you paid attention.

I think everyone is understanding the use of the drug and so far I haven't seen one protocol thats the same . So same drug different uses . you could use metformin on a bulking diet and a maintenance diet shit even in a contest diet . I think that making your body more efficient is going to give you benefit no matter what the goal is . Personally im all about human performance, so of course im exploring this option.

 

[heavyhitter]

I've got some metformun that's been in my cabinet over a year. I've tried to run it a couple different times buttn it just destroys my stomach so bad.

 

[FranJ]

Okay guys, so do we know if it inhibits gluconeogenesis completely or only partially? Any more info regarding IGF-1 blunt?

If we could know the answer for these questions I'd say this drug is freakin wonderful year round...

 

[Jizzmo]

metformin decreases carbohydrate absorption to a degree. this could also be the reason for having stomach issues.
i always get the shits and cant stop farting when i use metformin WHILE EATING HIGH CARBS. low carbs = much less problems

this also makes metformin a suboptimal choice for bulking imo.
look into berberine, it has none of the sides but all the benefits and then some.
maybe you could rotate metformin and berberine for dieting/bulking too.

 

[JRBD]

metformin decreases carbohydrate absorption to a degree. this could also be the reason for having stomach issues.
i always get the shits and cant stop farting when i use metformin WHILE EATING HIGH CARBS. low carbs = much less problems

this also makes metformin a suboptimal choice for bulking imo.
look into berberine, it has none of the sides but all the benefits and then some.
maybe you could rotate metformin and berberine for dieting/bulking too.

I'm using 500mg Metformin on my 2nd pwo meal right now on workout days while cruising to get insulin sensitivity back....But TN's MD-GDA are a staple with all carb meals...I was using 2 GDA's with big carb meals but for a while now I've been using 1 GDA and 1 Berberine and its been working great to keep me lean and my sensitivity up...I remember John M. saying to use 1 GDA per 50gr. of carbs....But the Metformin, GDA's and Berberine combo is very powerful and effective

 

[sma]

Okay guys, so do we know if it inhibits gluconeogenesis completely or only partially? Any more info regarding IGF-1 blunt?

If we could know the answer for these questions I'd say this drug is freakin wonderful year round...

they still dont know how it acts on the GLUT-1 so no. But from the studies i have seen on it increasing insulin sensitivity all the test subjects lost weight so i still dont see the potential unless you are using it after a insulin cycle. If i saw one person gaining weight and increasing insulin sensitivity then I would be on it like white on rice.

 

[ryanbCXG]

with some of the smartest minds ive seen on this board how is everybody not understanding the action of this drug. It makes you sensitive to insulin, hmm what others things do that , low carbs, cardio, yep you figured it out dieting. Which for building mass is counter productive. I get everyone wants to do two things at once believe me if I could I would surf the net while im driving, or get work done while my gf is talking to me but we all know that you will miss some shit. But yea you can still do it lol and if your girl has an attitude like mine you better be hoping you paid attention.

Are you saying being sensitive to insulin doesnt help you build muscle ie a gaining phase?

Most gaining phases should end when insulin sensitivity drops. Ie isnulin resistance from high cals and carbs and even high fats since FFA induce insulin resistance.

 

[ryanbCXG]

metformin decreases carbohydrate absorption to a degree. this could also be the reason for having stomach issues.
i always get the shits and cant stop farting when i use metformin WHILE EATING HIGH CARBS. low carbs = much less problems

this also makes metformin a suboptimal choice for bulking imo.
look into berberine, it has none of the sides but all the benefits and then some.
maybe you could rotate metformin and berberine for dieting/bulking too.

If you are using insulin sensitizers during bulking you are using things that are just like metformin.

This goes to SMA as well. Why do people like JM keep saying insulin sensitizing agents are great during bulks? Then why would metformin be a poor choice?
Curious

 

[Chode Logan]

If you are using insulin sensitizers during bulking you are using things that are just like metformin.

This goes to SMA as well. Why do people like JM keep saying insulin sensitizing agents are great during bulks? Then why would metformin be a poor choice?
Curious

Metformin in theory, is great during bulks as that's when insulin sensitivity tends to go out the window. I don't know enough about how it could possibly halt muscle growth though.


It's very beneficial when using insulin, which is usually during offseason.

 

[sma]

If you are using insulin sensitizers during bulking you are using things that are just like metformin.

This goes to SMA as well. Why do people like JM keep saying insulin sensitizing agents are great during bulks? Then why would metformin be a poor choice?
Curious

because they use it to prolong a bulk. Its like when people say do cardio during the offseason but yet your not losing fat but its keeping your heart in shape right. Difference with metformin is its not making you more sensitive to the carbs you eat its making you use less of the carbs you eat so you would have to eat more to get the same result, which in a bulk I would think to be counterproductive putting your digestive system through more stress. I mean there is worse things but I see it as use insulin for 4 weeks use metformin for 4 weeks. The only exception I see is if your using GH I can then its a great addition year round

 

[GreenTLB6]

I believe john and dr Serrano have hypothesized or seen studies where metformin can have a negative impact on mTor and/or igf.

 

[sma]

If you are using insulin sensitizers during bulking you are using things that are just like metformin.

This goes to SMA as well. Why do people like JM keep saying insulin sensitizing agents are great during bulks? Then why would metformin be a poor choice?
Curious

TBH tho although I know my anatomy, physiology i am not very knowledgeable with. here are some cliffs maybe you can cypher some of this.


The molecular mechanism of metformin is incompletely understood: inhibition of the mitochondrial respiratory chain (complex I), activation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), inhibition of glucagon-induced elevation of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP), and consequent activation of protein kinase A (PKA), inhibition of mitochondrial glycerophosphate dehydrogenase, and an effect on gut microbiota have been proposed as potential mechanisms.Activation of AMPK, an enzyme that plays an important role in insulin signaling, whole body energy balance, and the metabolism of glucose and fats,[93] was required for metformin's inhibitory effect on the production of glucose by liver cells.

The mechanism by which biguanides increase the activity of AMPK remains uncertain; however, metformin increases the concentration of cytosolic adenosine monophosphate (AMP) (as opposed to a change in total AMP or total AMP/adenosine triphosphate).[96] Increased cellular AMP has also been proposed to explain the inhibition of glucagon-induced increase in cAMP and activation of PKA.[90] Metformin and other biguanides may antagonize the action of glucagon, thus reducing fasting glucose levels.[97] Metformin also induces a profound shift in the faecal microbial community profile in diabetic mice and this may contribute to its mode of action possibly through an effect on glucagon-like peptide-1 secretion.[91]

In addition to suppressing hepatic glucose production, metformin increases insulin sensitivity, enhances peripheral glucose uptake (by inducing the phosphorylation of GLUT4 enhancer factor), decreases insulin-induced suppression of fatty acid oxidation,[98] and decreases absorption of glucose from the gastrointestinal tract.The increase in insulin binding after metformin treatment has also been demonstrated in patients with NIDDM [100]. AMPK probably also plays a role, as metformin administration increases AMPK activity in skeletal muscle.[101] AMPK is known to cause GLUT4 deployment to the plasma membrane, resulting in insulin-independent glucose uptake.

 

[ryanbCXG]

TBH tho although I know my anatomy, physiology i am not very knowledgeable with. here are some cliffs maybe you can cypher some of this.


The molecular mechanism of metformin is incompletely understood: inhibition of the mitochondrial respiratory chain (complex I), activation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), inhibition of glucagon-induced elevation of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP), and consequent activation of protein kinase A (PKA), inhibition of mitochondrial glycerophosphate dehydrogenase, and an effect on gut microbiota have been proposed as potential mechanisms.Activation of AMPK, an enzyme that plays an important role in insulin signaling, whole body energy balance, and the metabolism of glucose and fats,[93] was required for metformin's inhibitory effect on the production of glucose by liver cells.

The mechanism by which biguanides increase the activity of AMPK remains uncertain; however, metformin increases the concentration of cytosolic adenosine monophosphate (AMP) (as opposed to a change in total AMP or total AMP/adenosine triphosphate).[96] Increased cellular AMP has also been proposed to explain the inhibition of glucagon-induced increase in cAMP and activation of PKA.[90] Metformin and other biguanides may antagonize the action of glucagon, thus reducing fasting glucose levels.[97] Metformin also induces a profound shift in the faecal microbial community profile in diabetic mice and this may contribute to its mode of action possibly through an effect on glucagon-like peptide-1 secretion.[91]

In addition to suppressing hepatic glucose production, metformin increases insulin sensitivity, enhances peripheral glucose uptake (by inducing the phosphorylation of GLUT4 enhancer factor), decreases insulin-induced suppression of fatty acid oxidation,[98] and decreases absorption of glucose from the gastrointestinal tract.The increase in insulin binding after metformin treatment has also been demonstrated in patients with NIDDM [100]. AMPK probably also plays a role, as metformin administration increases AMPK activity in skeletal muscle.[101] AMPK is known to cause GLUT4 deployment to the plasma membrane, resulting in insulin-independent glucose uptake.

Thats also how training works. So again confused as to how this stops being affective or even stupid during a bulk. yes there is some AMPK driven activity but if you have MTOR activated too you have a lot of glut 4 activation and a lot of glucose disposal where you want. Now using metfromin all day everyday on a bulk i could maybe see as not being as beneficial but not never

I appreciate the MOA dump I was much too lazy to go look for its effect on glut 4 to support why it makes sense during a bulk or cut

 

[dragonfire101]

Some more benefits of using Metformin: it reduces cholesterol while raise HDL, also it only increase insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle not adipocytes.

This is great during AAS, GH, Insulin cycle.

I'm gonna keep using it year round, will post results...

It never increased my hdl not sure if it does that well without high doses i seen studies alluding to it but didnt do a thinking for my hdl but it increases insulin sensitivity with gh very good

 

[Jizzmo]

If you are using insulin sensitizers during bulking you are using things that are just like metformin.

This goes to SMA as well. Why do people like JM keep saying insulin sensitizing agents are great during bulks? Then why would metformin be a poor choice?
Curious

no. metformin decreases carbohydrate absorption. other GDAs/insulin sensitizers do not.

i dont think its beneficial to poop away a certain percentage of the carbs you eat on a bulk. while on a cut it is.
that was my point.

btw im not saying insulin sensitizers are good during a bulk. i dont think they can significantly attenuate the effect that 500+g carbs a day have on insulin sensitivity. imo they are better used on a cut. just personal preference.

 

[Knight9]

I swear I have heard Matt Porter mention it can have negative effects on the liver. I've never specifically looked it up...but also NEVER heard that anywhere else.

 

[Cerberus777]

TBH tho although I know my anatomy, physiology i am not very knowledgeable with. here are some cliffs maybe you can cypher some of this.


The molecular mechanism of metformin is incompletely understood: inhibition of the mitochondrial respiratory chain (complex I), activation of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK), inhibition of glucagon-induced elevation of cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP), and consequent activation of protein kinase A (PKA), inhibition of mitochondrial glycerophosphate dehydrogenase, and an effect on gut microbiota have been proposed as potential mechanisms.Activation of AMPK, an enzyme that plays an important role in insulin signaling, whole body energy balance, and the metabolism of glucose and fats,[93] was required for metformin's inhibitory effect on the production of glucose by liver cells.

The mechanism by which biguanides increase the activity of AMPK remains uncertain; however, metformin increases the concentration of cytosolic adenosine monophosphate (AMP) (as opposed to a change in total AMP or total AMP/adenosine triphosphate).[96] Increased cellular AMP has also been proposed to explain the inhibition of glucagon-induced increase in cAMP and activation of PKA.[90] Metformin and other biguanides may antagonize the action of glucagon, thus reducing fasting glucose levels.[97] Metformin also induces a profound shift in the faecal microbial community profile in diabetic mice and this may contribute to its mode of action possibly through an effect on glucagon-like peptide-1 secretion.[91]

In addition to suppressing hepatic glucose production, metformin increases insulin sensitivity, enhances peripheral glucose uptake (by inducing the phosphorylation of GLUT4 enhancer factor), decreases insulin-induced suppression of fatty acid oxidation,[98] and decreases absorption of glucose from the gastrointestinal tract.The increase in insulin binding after metformin treatment has also been demonstrated in patients with NIDDM [100]. AMPK probably also plays a role, as metformin administration increases AMPK activity in skeletal muscle.[101] AMPK is known to cause GLUT4 deployment to the plasma membrane, resulting in insulin-independent glucose uptake.

SMA, is correct in that the ways metformin or may other products that increase insulin sensitivity can in theory, be counter productive in gaining muscle. It can lower IGF, and has shown to increase mystatin.

I haven't seen any studies on weight training humans, nor AAS asisted humans to see if this is a small factor. But you cannot have your cake and muscle too.

Gains will be slower, may require more gear, or we may not be able to use these drugs in high doses or long periods.

Sure people have used them and gained LBM, but what were there dosages?

Im willing to progress slower to stay leaner and healthier....but understand that using insulin sensitivity products.