Milk Thistle versus Liv.52

[Dr.S]

If you have to take 500-1000mg 2x`s Milk thisle per day, that tells me that the Milk thisle is very low grade, if the Milk thisle is pure 100% grade,you will need only 70-100mg per day.

how do you figure?

 

[Dr.S]

This is the only 100% pharmaceutical grade Silmarin (Milkthistle) on the market www.carsil.com

this is a gimmick to jack up the price for an inferior product...not to mention the unhealthy additives (Additives: Lactose, Wheat starch, Sorbite, Glucose, Microcrystaline cellulose, Talk, Magnesium Stearate, Polyvinylpyrolidone, Sodium bicarbonate)

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

Dr.S if someone is NOT doing a heavy cycle,(say just 500mg's of sust a week) can you get away with just Milk Thistle or Liv52??? or both?

 

[Dr.S]

Dr.S if someone is NOT doing a heavy cycle,(say just 500mg's of sust a week) can you get away with just Milk Thistle or Liv52??? or both?

I see no reason not to use both--many folks use both year around cycle or no cycle. On 500mg Sust you probably wouldn't "need" either to keep LFT's in normal range. Milk thistle is so cheap, might as well take a 500mg pill with first and last meal year round

 

[0o0o0o]

I have personal experience with URSO 250mg. My doctor ordered a LFT Panel blood work . I had elevated ALT/AST levels (400 range) and buildup of bilirubin in my body (4.0 range). Prescribed Urso 250MG 3 times a day. Levels drop to (175 ALT/AST range) (bilirubin 1.2 range).

Everyone If you dont know what URSO is please take time and research it!

It is basically cutting out the maybes and probablys and gray areas, and getting to the actual process.

Please start with reading Smiths Post on page one!

 

[emeric delczeg]

this is a gimmick to jack up the price for an inferior product...not to mention the unhealthy additives (Additives: Lactose, Wheat starch, Sorbite, Glucose, Microcrystaline cellulose, Talk, Magnesium Stearate, Polyvinylpyrolidone, Sodium bicarbonate)

How can be inferior a 100% extract to a 80% or 70% extract? did you see the study?

 

[RINO]

This is the only 100% pharmaceutical grade Silmarin (Milkthistle) on the market www.carsil.com

Hi Emeric, Didn't it say at the bottom of the link page to use 5mg/kg of body weight? Seems high. Did I miss understand?

 

[emeric delczeg]

how do you figure?

Well I didn`t, but Wagner and Munster where the first whom isolated a flavonoid complex from the plant in 1968. According to current knowledge the hepatoprotective principle contained in the ripe seeds of the white thorn and referred to as silmarin includes the following compounds: silybin, dehydrosilybin, silydianin and silycrystin. Moreover the fruits of the plant contain a stereoisomer of silybin, as well as various polymeric products of silybin. So if the extract is not from the fruits of the white thorn, than you have the a inferior product. Most of the Milk thitsle products on the market are extracted from the whole plant and not from the fruit.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Hi Emeric, Didn't it say at the bottom of the link page to use 5mg/kg of body weight? Seems high. Did I miss understand?

They did use in the mutagenicity studies on rats dose of 5, 10, 200mg/kg and was no evidence of existence of mutagenic effect.

The advanced liver damege inpatients received 21o mg per day for 3 months. So if you have advanced liver problem than you need to take up to 210mg per day.

For prevention you need only 75 to 100mg per day.
The best way is to start taking the product in the beginig with you cycol, and just take 3 tabs per day.

 

[emeric delczeg]

this is a gimmick to jack up the price for an inferior product...not to mention the unhealthy additives (Additives: Lactose, Wheat starch, Sorbite, Glucose, Microcrystaline cellulose, Talk, Magnesium Stearate, Polyvinylpyrolidone, Sodium bicarbonate)

The additives are part of the Enteric coding of the tablet.

 

[The Booger]

Emeric, I tried searching for the milk thistle you are talking about but cannot locate any. Do you happen to have a favorite brand that is readily available?

Thank you.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Emeric, I tried searching for the milk thistle you are talking about but cannot locate any. Do you happen to have a favorite brand that is readily available?

Thank you.

You have to go to www.carsil.com and you can purchase off from the website.

 

[RINO]

They did use in the mutagenicity studies on rats dose of 5, 10, 200mg/kg and was no evidence of existence of mutagenic effect.

The advanced liver damege inpatients received 21o mg per day for 3 months. So if you have advanced liver problem than you need to take up to 210mg per day.

For prevention you need only 75 to 100mg per day.
The best way is to start taking the product in the beginig with you cycol, and just take 3 tabs per day.

Thanks for clearing that up.Thought that might get expensive.

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

I see no reason not to use both--many folks use both year around cycle or no cycle. On 500mg Sust you probably wouldn't "need" either to keep LFT's in normal range. Milk thistle is so cheap, might as well take a 500mg pill with first and last meal year round

Thank you brother!

 

[bodyfort]

there is another supplement you know......SYNTHERGINE

 

[emeric delczeg]

there is another supplement you know......SYNTHERGINE

Yes, and is very good.

 

[taba]

Can you post a link to this "hospital website" please? Thanks.

You have to be a patient member of the hospital and enter your medical number. The site is connected to your doctor, test results, and advisory.

 

[taba]

Since we are talking about liver protectants can anyone give some feedback on Liver Longer. I copied and pasted some info on it. I tried for my bile flow build up after my doctor told me my liver was at risk from high liver values.

Product Description
Unique Liver Support Targeting Former Steroid Users!

Liver Longer from ThermoLife International is a breakthrough product, specifically targeting steroid toxicity, and is not a run of the mill liver protector. Liver Longer was developed to support the health of your liver. If you have recently taken any oral anabolic steroid, either in an over the counter supplement or pharmaceutical (black market) form, you need Liver Longer to support the health of your liver.

Liver Longer specifically addresses steroid toxicity in several unique ways. While there are other good "liver supporter" products available, they are more for general liver health than anything. What sets this product apart is that it is specifically for promoting healthy liver function in the presence of oral steroids.

So how, specifically, do oral steroids cause cholestasis, and thus toxicity? As the steroid enters the liver, it becomes glucuronidated. This means a glucuronic acid molecule is attached to the 17-hydroxyl group of the steroid. The intended purpose of this is to make the steroid more water soluble so it can be excreted in the urine. That is what is supposed to happen, but these glucuronides tend to accumulate in the liver, where they are believed to act upon orphan receptors to cause a down regulation of bile acid transporters. 1,6 Bile acid transporters are the most important factor for bile flow in the liver, and when these transporters disappear because of the steroid, bile flow stops and trouble starts.

If you had cholestasis and you went to the doctor, you would probably get a prescription for a drug called Ursodiol. This is the brand name for the bile salt ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA). UDCA would not be a bad choice for prevention of toxicity, but there are a few problems. First, it requires a prescription because it’s a drug. Second, even if you found some on the black market, it’s awfully expensive.

Fortunately, there is a better choice. The substance in question is tauroursodeoxycholic acid or TUDCA for short. It is the taurine conjugate of UDCA. TUDCA is an endogenous bile acid accounting for a small percent of the bile found in the human body. It has been used traditionally as well, being found in bear gall bladders, to treat liver disorders for many years.

TAUROURSODEOXYCHOLIC ACID (TUDCA):

There are multiple ways TUDCA aids in normal liver function. First, this bile acid acts to restore bile acid transporters. Doing this allows bile to flow normally via these transporters. Not only that, but it also acts to prevent formation of the toxic steroid glucuronides in the first place. A 2003 study showed that TUDCA noncompetitive inhibitor of steroid glucuronidation in vivo and in vitro.3 This means fewer toxic metabolites will be made in the first place! As if that one-two combination was not good enough, TUDCA may increase the excretion of any glucuronide metabolites that do get formed, so they will not be around long enough in the liver to start down regulating any bile acid transporters.4

So you can see this product is extremely targeted toward steroid toxicity, and is not a run of the mill liver protector. It helps prevent the formation of toxic steroid metabolites, reverses the toxic actions of the metabolites that do get formed, and speeds the elimination of the metabolites from the liver.

While we do not advocate the use of steroids, the reality of it is that many people use these products, often without medical supervision. A product such as Liver Longer would be extremely valuable as a health protective measure to anyone who did choose to use oral steroids, whether they are legal dietary supplement or illicit black market or prescription products.

Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving:

Tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA): 250mg

Other Ingredients: Calcium phosphate, sipernat 22, stearic acid, magnesium stearate, film coating.

Directions: As an adult dietary supplement take one (1) tablet twice daily with meals.

Warnings: Do not exceed recommended dosage. Keep out of reach of children.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

 

[Smith70592]

If you had cholestasis and you went to the doctor, you would probably get a prescript

As you can tell Liver Longer it is the taurine conjugate of URSO 250mg( UDCA available as a research product)

 

[EDED]

I have personal experience with URSO 250mg. My doctor ordered a LFT Panel blood work . I had elevated ALT/AST levels (400 range) and buildup of bilirubin in my body (4.0 range). Prescribed Urso 250MG 3 times a day. Levels drop to (175 ALT/AST range) (bilirubin 1.2 range).

i hope ALT and AST were not in U/L?

also ive read TUDCA shouldnt be used for a long time...only for a brief period, forget the reason for it.

i might try