Mixed feelings on IGF1 bloodwork #'s

[bigatron_01]

I have 354 on 100mcg GHRP2+cjc dac 3 times a day and im 38.

Something is wrong with your GH imo

 

[Itachi]

what was your serum GH score?

Sorry it took me so long to get the test done.

I just had a serum test done, I scored 54.5 on 10ius IM in the deltoid exactly 3 hours after injection. That is just bizarre. My igf1 numbers do not match the serum numbers.

 

[Dizzle82]

54.5?? damn thats insane!!
did u happen to run another igf test at the same time? just to compare in case of an error in previous test?

Sorry it took me so long to get the test done.

I just had a serum test done, I scored 54.5 on 10ius IM in the deltoid exactly 3 hours after injection. That is just bizarre. My igf1 numbers do not match the serum numbers.

 

[thewizkid]

100mcg GHRP2/100mcg mod grf(1-29) 3x/day, or 2ius pharma hgh per day should bring IGF1 up to 300 after one month.
Your IGF1 should be about 600 on 10ius hgh per day.
There are factors that will keep IGF1 from scoring high.
I need my guru, RamboStallone, to get in here on this discussion.

hey are you sure? i was at high 500's and 600 igf at 6iu PHARM GH a day,
I got the same with 10iu of generics. Everyone responds differently too i guess.

Actually my igf-1 was ALWAYS fairly low until I found out ESTROGEN blockers even at moderate doses are igf-1 conversion killers. How did I find this out? My igf-1 was at 600's during PCT. I was on nova and clomid but no AI's.

When I started the cycle after PCT I barely used AI's and my igf-1 stayed up.
Didn't change the type of GH through the whole year, same batch.

Although this was injecting SUBQ, I experimented with injecting IV, now for some reason my IGF-1 NEVER rises on IV injections of GH but the results are mind blowing, at first no bloat, at second extreme fat loss and staying lean during bulks.
I keep questioning myself if raised IGF-1 levels are really needed to indicate GH is working, I have been told both yes and no by many people so I am confused. I am always second guessing myself using GH IV because even though fat loss is there, I am not sure if hyperplasia is.

Although the extreme fatness actually made me not even care if the hyperplasia was there, I was growing, gaining weight and losing fat. Although an expensive fat burner but being able to grow and stay lean I have never done before without gh.

Then again I know pro's that never used IV gh and it worked for them so no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel. Was a fun time experimenting though

 

[Itachi]

54.5?? damn thats insane!!
did u happen to run another igf test at the same time? just to compare in case of an error in previous test?

I did not re-test IGF-1.

hey are you sure? i was at high 500's and 600 igf at 6iu PHARM GH a day,
I got the same with 10iu of generics. Everyone responds differently too i guess.

Actually my igf-1 was ALWAYS fairly low until I found out ESTROGEN blockers even at moderate doses are igf-1 conversion killers. How did I find this out? My igf-1 was at 600's during PCT. I was on nova and clomid but no AI's.

When I started the cycle after PCT I barely used AI's and my igf-1 stayed up.
Didn't change the type of GH through the whole year, same batch.

Although this was injecting SUBQ, I experimented with injecting IV, now for some reason my IGF-1 NEVER rises on IV injections of GH but the results are mind blowing, at first no bloat, at second extreme fat loss and staying lean during bulks.
I keep questioning myself if raised IGF-1 levels are really needed to indicate GH is working, I have been told both yes and no by many people so I am confused. I am always second guessing myself using GH IV because even though fat loss is there, I am not sure if hyperplasia is.

Although the extreme fatness actually made me not even care if the hyperplasia was there, I was growing, gaining weight and losing fat. Although an expensive fat burner but being able to grow and stay lean I have never done before without gh.

Then again I know pro's that never used IV gh and it worked for them so no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel. Was a fun time experimenting though

So theoretically my IGF *should* be expected to test in the 500's off the 10iu dose.

Could arimidex usage feasibly bring igf from 500 to 334? That's 66.8% less conversion, pretty substantial. Do you have memory of what your IGF was on the 6ius pharm grade before you dropped your AI dose?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

hey are you sure? i was at high 500's and 600 igf at 6iu PHARM GH a day,
I got the same with 10iu of generics. Everyone responds differently too i guess.

Actually my igf-1 was ALWAYS fairly low until I found out ESTROGEN blockers even at moderate doses are igf-1 conversion killers. How did I find this out? My igf-1 was at 600's during PCT. I was on nova and clomid but no AI's.

When I started the cycle after PCT I barely used AI's and my igf-1 stayed up.
Didn't change the type of GH through the whole year, same batch.

Although this was injecting SUBQ, I experimented with injecting IV, now for some reason my IGF-1 NEVER rises on IV injections of GH but the results are mind blowing, at first no bloat, at second extreme fat loss and staying lean during bulks.
I keep questioning myself if raised IGF-1 levels are really needed to indicate GH is working, I have been told both yes and no by many people so I am confused. I am always second guessing myself using GH IV because even though fat loss is there, I am not sure if hyperplasia is.

Although the extreme fatness actually made me not even care if the hyperplasia was there, I was growing, gaining weight and losing fat. Although an expensive fat burner but being able to grow and stay lean I have never done before without gh.

Then again I know pro's that never used IV gh and it worked for them so no sense in trying to reinvent the wheel. Was a fun time experimenting though

Very interesting you noticed that with the AIs. Especially because Nolva is proven to drop IGF scores, nothing I've read has talked about AIs.

Make sure you reconsider running a lower dose of Nolva year round than using AIs at all, that's what John Meadows does.

 

[thewizkid]

I did not re-test IGF-1.



So theoretically my IGF *should* be expected to test in the 500's off the 10iu dose.

Could arimidex usage feasibly bring igf from 500 to 334? That's 66.8% less conversion, pretty substantial. Do you have memory of what your IGF was on the 6ius pharm grade before you dropped your AI dose?

100% sure if you're running ai too high and estrogen is too low then that will be it

MY IGF-1 was hovering in the 200-300 range when i was using ai's to keep water off. (too much)

I tested the GH over and over with GH-serum bloods and it was real gh, fat loss was insane. Only thing that didn't add up was the igf-1 being in the 200-300

fast forward to PCT, I redid bloods to check everything at the end of pct, i.e. liver, test, estrogen etc. and i saw my igf-1 was 500-600, i can't remember off the top of my head but it was 500-600 and i did 2 more bloods after that (one each month after), all in the 500-600 after starting cycle and using barely any AI, (0.5 arimidex twice a week)

once again the brand and batch of gh didn't change, dose didn't change, etc.
only thing that changes is the decrease of AIs'

Very interesting you noticed that with the AIs. Especially because Nolva is proven to drop IGF scores, nothing I've read has talked about AIs.

Make sure you reconsider running a lower dose of Nolva year round than using AIs at all, that's what John Meadows does.

From my own research/ experiments, nolvadex blocks the receptor for estrogen but doesn't decrease it. It's AI's that decrease estrogen and estrogen is 100% NEEDED for gh to igf-1 conversion.

I am 100% certain if you have legit gh, (not underdosed) and are running a decent amount (4-6iu, 6-10iu if underdosed) you WILL have igf-1 elevated SIGNIFICANTLY


next topic

what I don't know is, IF elevated IGF-1 is needed to reap the benefits of gh. I most definitely didn't have IGF-1 elevation for 2 of my cycles with GH but I got absolutely mind blowing results.

That being said, what I noticed when my igf-1 was elevated vs not was nothing significant. I defiantly wouldn't be able to tell by feel if my igf-1 was elevated or not

 

[montecresto]

100% sure if you're running ai too high and estrogen is too low then that will be it

MY IGF-1 was hovering in the 200-300 range when i was using ai's to keep water off. (too much)

I tested the GH over and over with GH-serum bloods and it was real gh, fat loss was insane. Only thing that didn't add up was the igf-1 being in the 200-300

fast forward to PCT, I redid bloods to check everything at the end of pct, i.e. liver, test, estrogen etc. and i saw my igf-1 was 500-600, i can't remember off the top of my head but it was 500-600 and i did 2 more bloods after that (one each month after), all in the 500-600 after starting cycle and using barely any AI, (0.5 arimidex twice a week)

once again the brand and batch of gh didn't change, dose didn't change, etc.
only thing that changes is the decrease of AIs'




From my own research/ experiments, nolvadex blocks the receptor for estrogen but doesn't decrease it. It's AI's that decrease estrogen and estrogen is 100% NEEDED for gh to igf-1 conversion.

I am 100% certain if you have legit gh, (not underdosed) and are running a decent amount (4-6iu, 6-10iu if underdosed) you WILL have igf-1 elevated SIGNIFICANTLY


next topic

what I don't know is, IF elevated IGF-1 is needed to reap the benefits of gh. I most definitely didn't have IGF-1 elevation for 2 of my cycles with GH but I got absolutely mind blowing results.

That being said, what I noticed when my igf-1 was elevated vs not was nothing significant. I defiantly wouldn't be able to tell by feel if my igf-1 was elevated or not

Your a very very smart man. Trust me when i tell you hands on experience. Keep doing what your doing as this is bodybuilding.

IGF numbers are bullshit when it came to GH, how did i know this? i was on orals and blew my liver, there was very little IGF conversion, but i was still on 10-20iu of GH and i fucking looked HUGE.

I was also on insulin 100iu lantus + 40iu humalog, NO CHANGE IN IGF, WHY? because its bullshit.

Up the GH, UP the slin, till we get this we make love then

**broken link removed**

 

[thewizkid]

Your a very very smart man. Trust me when i tell you hands on experience. Keep doing what your doing as this is bodybuilding.

IGF numbers are bullshit when it came to GH, how did i know this? i was on orals and blew my liver, there was very little IGF conversion, but i was still on 10-20iu of GH and i fucking looked HUGE.

I was also on insulin 100iu lantus + 40iu humalog, NO CHANGE IN IGF, WHY? because its bullshit.

Up the GH, UP the slin, till we get this we make love then

ah i was waiting to finally do an experiment to get this answer, although you were big, GH does 1 thing that is worth the big dollar cost which is hyperplasia, it takes time.

did you have a shot liver when you always used gh? it could be that the hyperplasia took place already and you just needed time for new cells to grow, i.e. creating the increased muscle mass

although, i used HGH with IV (intravenous) injections, the results, mind blowing, in terms of size i can't say it was because of the gh, i did get a lot larger however the main effect i saw was staying lean with little to no bf gain while gaining size.

not sure if it's worth the gamble because everyone i know uses subq

 

[thewizkid]

ah i was waiting to finally do an experiment to get this answer, although you were big, GH does 1 thing that is worth the big dollar cost which is hyperplasia, it takes time.

did you have a shot liver when you always used gh? it could be that the hyperplasia took place already and you just needed time for new cells to grow, i.e. creating the increased muscle mass

although, i used HGH with IV (intravenous) injections, the results, mind blowing, in terms of size i can't say it was because of the gh, i did get a lot larger however the main effect i saw was staying lean with little to no bf gain while gaining size.

not sure if it's worth the gamble because everyone i know uses subq

just to add, injecting IGF-1 lr3 doesn't increase igf-1 in blood, but still gives results

 

[kingtung]

ah i was waiting to finally do an experiment to get this answer, although you were big, GH does 1 thing that is worth the big dollar cost which is hyperplasia, it takes time.

did you have a shot liver when you always used gh? it could be that the hyperplasia took place already and you just needed time for new cells to grow, i.e. creating the increased muscle mass

although, i used HGH with IV (intravenous) injections, the results, mind blowing, in terms of size i can't say it was because of the gh, i did get a lot larger however the main effect i saw was staying lean with little to no bf gain while gaining size.

not sure if it's worth the gamble because everyone i know uses subq

Yeh so i blew my liver as i started the GH, but was still looking 3d and so forth.

As for IV if it didnt scare me as much as it did as drugs i would do it, the reason its working for you is because your making massive fake pulses; think ghrp x 1000, lol i love you bro <3.

Btw, you want to blow up even faster? add lantus, trust me 100iu you wont go hypo, works well with HGH for glucose sensitivity. 2 weeks on 2 off. Watch what happens (and 1-2 shot humalog before workout etc for fun).

Goodluck. lol.

 

[kingtung]

just to add, injecting IGF-1 lr3 doesn't increase igf-1 in blood, but still gives results

Thats how i knew they were lieing about it all, if its a longer releasing peptide (think test prop v test-e), it shouldnt matter the half life, IGF readings should be through the roof. The LR3 (Long arginine 3) gets cleaved off and your meant to have HUGE ng/ml igf levels, but how if your injecting 100-200mcg v 4mg Increlex.

Its a sham, maybe good pump, but stick to real thing.

 

[thewizkid]

Yeh so i blew my liver as i started the GH, but was still looking 3d and so forth.

As for IV if it didnt scare me as much as it did as drugs i would do it, the reason its working for you is because your making massive fake pulses; think ghrp x 1000, lol i love you bro <3.

Btw, you want to blow up even faster? add lantus, trust me 100iu you wont go hypo, works well with HGH for glucose sensitivity. 2 weeks on 2 off. Watch what happens (and 1-2 shot humalog before workout etc for fun).

Goodluck. lol.

yes sir i got the 3d look with 200 igf-1 levels

iv i think is only good for fat loss, went from 12-15%bf to 8 pack shredded veins all over in 1 month IV gh, and i was eating non - diet (more than mantenence calories)

i never used lantus, i was always taught humalog by someone i trust very much, infact was very high humalog doses, i won't post it because you have to know what you were doing, lets say it was about your lantus dose in humalog(split ofcourse)

 

[kingtung]

yes sir i got the 3d look with 200 igf-1 levels

iv i think is only good for fat loss, went from 12-15%bf to 8 pack shredded veins all over in 1 month IV gh, and i was eating non - diet (more than mantenence calories)

i never used lantus, i was always taught humalog by someone i trust very much, infact was very high humalog doses, i won't post it because you have to know what you were doing, lets say it was about your lantus dose in humalog(split ofcourse)

With gluco/glyco-genic amino acid in the 20g range . I told you i smell beauty from a mile a way thats why i said your very smart.

Your goal is to counterbalance the glucose level released by GH with insulin, this will make fat loss greater. You also need slin to attach to binding protein 1 2 4 5 6 7, NOT 3. This is why timing is important (unless you want to shuffle alot of glucose in your cell for that ugly fake inflated look). We are trying to work on synergy with these compounds.

IV hgh i think is absolutely beautiful, im assuming not as much lethargy? can you go up to 40-50iu riptropin?

There is synergy 100%, you need to find perfect ratios and its all down to HGH:IGF:IGF-BP3

Watch this vid, itll help out alot in timing them right.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSu77PwvnPI"]Maximizing HGH: What insulin to combine with it- Humalog, Humalin with Growth Hormone - YouTube[/ame]

 

[thewizkid]

With gluco/glyco-genic amino acid in the 20g range . I told you i smell beauty from a mile a way thats why i said your very smart.

Your goal is to counterbalance the glucose level released by GH with insulin, this will make fat loss greater. You also need slin to attach to binding protein 1 2 4 5 6 7, NOT 3. This is why timing is important (unless you want to shuffle alot of glucose in your cell for that ugly fake inflated look). We are trying to work on synergy with these compounds.

IV hgh i think is absolutely beautiful, im assuming not as much lethargy? can you go up to 40-50iu riptropin?

There is synergy 100%, you need to find perfect ratios and its all down to HGH:IGF:IGF-BP3

Watch this vid, itll help out alot in timing them right.

Maximizing HGH: What insulin to combine with it- Humalog, Humalin with Growth Hormone - YouTube

There are virtually no sides with IV gh, just results, i never had cts or anything, n bloat, etc. with IV hgh, highest i went was 25 generics a day, but only for a month. I could eat anything i wanted and not gain a single oz of fat, infact i was losing fat

eh those guys i dont trust, half there information is broken telephone from a guy from ameen ali, makes things too complicated to make it seem like he has some sort of secret

 

[kingtung]

There are virtually no sides with IV gh, just results, i never had cts or anything, n bloat, etc. with IV hgh, highest i went was 25 generics a day, but only for a month. I could eat anything i wanted and not gain a single oz of fat, infact i was losing fat

eh those guys i dont trust, half there information is broken telephone from a guy from ameen ali, makes things too complicated to make it seem like he has some sort of secret

Yes this is what i would of assumed. But i fear more for your veins by the time your done 1000-2000ius for your goals lol.

They speak the truth, im originally from the middle-east im assuming your from East Europe. Ameen was a pioneer (hint: nubain), i dont know about his original past but what ive seen of him recently in his vids (to an unknown newbie, was very truthful and on point).

I dont know what the issue is with IGF, i have not yet seen 1 test (esp sponsors from america etc) with good readings, but i have heard boys that have used gropep IGF (comes in microgram doses), very little was causing huge gains, i wish they did blood test on this to prove increase in IGF levels.

 

[thewizkid]

Yes this is what i would of assumed. But i fear more for your veins by the time your done 1000-2000ius for your goals lol.

They speak the truth, im originally from the middle-east im assuming your from East Europe. Ameen was a pioneer (hint: nubain), i dont know about his original past but what ive seen of him recently in his vids (to an unknown newbie, was very truthful and on point).

I dont know what the issue is with IGF, i have not yet seen 1 test (esp sponsors from america etc) with good readings, but i have heard boys that have used gropep IGF (comes in microgram doses), very little was causing huge gains, i wish they did blood test on this to prove increase in IGF levels.

yeah, i have to switch site although i don't IV anymore unless just for a month to get really lean

chad nichols and milos sarcev both don't agree using HGH and insulin at the same time and I'm sure many more (i only know for sure they dont, by same time i mean injecting them close together)
and then there those that do use HGH and insulin at the same time


I'm actaully from canada lol the gear here is shit, hgh is even worse, blackmarket is all fake and people on canadian forum are all saying
' i get better sleep and a numb hand its legit!!!'

There was one person who was researching hgh/igf and he said that igf-1 readings may be varied because there is local IGF that isn't measured and then the igf in blood stream which shouldn't matter for muscle gain/fatloss.

Ameen might have been what you consider a pioneer , i consider him a pioneer but one that spews bullshit, look at those in kuwait in oxygen gym, guaranteed he has never been able to achieve close to the results they are and i know it was DENNIS JAMES that was paid a lot of money to teach them. and I know who taught dennis james.

Although it's just speculation, i am pretty sure i know the structure of the protocols they use. and it's not anything like ameen says lol

 

[Itachi]

yeah, i have to switch site although i don't IV anymore unless just for a month to get really lean

chad nichols and milos sarcev both don't agree using HGH and insulin at the same time and I'm sure many more (i only know for sure they dont, by same time i mean injecting them close together)
and then there those that do use HGH and insulin at the same time


I'm actaully from canada lol the gear here is shit, hgh is even worse, blackmarket is all fake and people on canadian forum are all saying
' i get better sleep and a numb hand its legit!!!'

There was one person who was researching hgh/igf and he said that igf-1 readings may be varied because there is local IGF that isn't measured and then the igf in blood stream which shouldn't matter for muscle gain/fatloss.

Ameen might have been what you consider a pioneer , i consider him a pioneer but one that spews bullshit, look at those in kuwait in oxygen gym, guaranteed he has never been able to achieve close to the results they are and i know it was DENNIS JAMES that was paid a lot of money to teach them. and I know who taught dennis james.

Although it's just speculation, i am pretty sure i know the structure of the protocols they use. and it's not anything like ameen says lol

This convo has gotten interesting I ran the insulin protocol they suggested in the EA video (1-2iu humilin-r with a few units of hgh and inject 4-5x per day)

I've gotten higher igf readings on half the growth not running that protocol so who knows.

 

[epoxy]

real question, how the heck are you guys getting lantus.....someone PM me

 

[thewizkid]

This convo has gotten interesting I ran the insulin protocol they suggested in the EA video (1-2iu humilin-r with a few units of hgh and inject 4-5x per day)

I've gotten higher igf readings on half the growth not running that protocol so who knows.

just so I'm reading it right, you said you got HIGHER IGF-1 readings WITHOUT their protocol?

i was always taught to never inject gh and insulin at the same time (or eat to cause insulin release) because it will make the gh useless