Restoring HPTA after years of steroid use

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Interesting thread. I wish I was experienced or expert to put together the perfect PCT. And I'm sure a lot of us will be at some point of our lives in your shoes.

But I agree first that for a real recovery you have to be off every single steroid. Some people say "oh I'm using nothing. Just 10mg of dbol and 100mg of test" well, thats is something. Off is off. No anabolic chemicals at all. Zero. I see that now you've been off for a month and thats a good thing.

Also, I am completely aware that the recovery is slow and painful. It CANNOT be a transition from TRT to normal life just with a PCT. The PCT will speed up things and make them easier for your body. But eventually your own body is the one who has to stabilize everything over a long period of time; 6-10-12 months. And I understand is not easy mentally and physically. But is the only way.

I wish you the best and keep us posted. You are doing the right thing. Juicing feels great, makes you look great, but you know what? natural healthy life is always better. Theres so many other things more important to enjoy in life than looking yourself at the mirror. It's ok when we're young, but the real things that prevail in life have nothing to do with how we look.

Well said eagle, thanks for your support. I'm determined to complete this PCT and get back to normal. You're right though, it sure as hell feels shitty right now.

I'll keep everyone posted, next labs in 1 month.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Added some new stuff to the mix to see if I can get myself recovered quicker, all this is taken every day, split between AM and PM:
4g tribulus terrestris
ZMA (only in the PM)
1.5g Horny goat weed extract
2g Vitamin C
8000iu Vitamin D-3

I also just ordered some Ostarine. Heard good things about it being used during PCT. Hopefully if will get me feeling better while allowing me to continue to recover.

 

[MaineGuy]

Added some new stuff to the mix to see if I can get myself recovered quicker, all this is taken every day, split between AM and PM:
4g tribulus terrestris
ZMA (only in the PM)
1.5g Horny goat weed extract
2g Vitamin C
8000iu Vitamin D-3

I also just ordered some Ostarine. Heard good things about it being used during PCT. Hopefully if will get me feeling better while allowing me to continue to recover.

When I was researching Ostarine, I found some people that had bloods done and some research showing Ostarine can actually shut you down. This may not be true now, have not researched in a while. Does anyone have any info on this?

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

When I was researching Ostarine, I found some people that had bloods done and some research showing Ostarine can actually shut you down. This may not be true now, have not researched in a while. Does anyone have any info on this?

I have also heard it is mildly suppressive. Other studies have said it has little to no effect of LH levels. It would be nice if someone who has used the stuff could chime in. Planning on running 25mg qd for 4 weeks.

On another note, I'm actually starting to feel a bit better. Still no morning wood or sex drive to speak of, hopefully that comes in time. Just more of a feeling of well-being and more motivation to get into the gym. I hope things continue this way.

 

[MaineGuy]

I have also heard it is mildly suppressive. Other studies have said it has little to no effect of LH levels. It would be nice if someone who has used the stuff could chime in. Planning on running 25mg qd for 4 weeks.

On another note, I'm actually starting to feel a bit better. Still no morning wood or sex drive to speak of, hopefully that comes in time. Just more of a feeling of well-being and more motivation to get into the gym. I hope things continue this way.

I hope it treats you well, I don't do good with PCT.

 

[warrenpeace]

Added some new stuff to the mix to see if I can get myself recovered quicker, all this is taken every day, split between AM and PM:
4g tribulus terrestris
ZMA (only in the PM)
1.5g Horny goat weed extract
2g Vitamin C
8000iu Vitamin D-3

I also just ordered some Ostarine. Heard good things about it being used during PCT. Hopefully if will get me feeling better while allowing me to continue to recover.

There isn't much scientific evidence to suggest any of the above does much for restoring HPTA. An "everything but the kitchen sink" approach doesn't generally work. Clean out and rely on your body to work its way out of it with good diet.

 

[Kaladryn]

Hey guys, here's my latest labs.

Lipid panel is still looking alright, although I need to get HDL up a bit and bring LDL and cholesterol down some more.

Hormone panel is looking promising. T is at a decent level, LH & FSH have increased since last month's labs. Exemestane @ 25mg qd seems to be keeping estradiol in check.

These labs were taken on Monday morning. I had not administered any of my PCT drugs prior to the labs. On Sunday I took 20mg tamoxifen, 100mg clomiphene, 25mg exemestane, 1000iu HCG, 7.5iu HMG. My last shot of 100mg Test-E/week was on 10/18, so I'm just now a month steroid-free.

I'm still feeling so-so. Don't have a real drive to go to the gym although I force myself too. Sex drive just isn't there and I haven't been noticing nocturnal erections or morning wood lately. Can't even get very hard watching porno. I can ejaculate though, volume and strength is good. Been pretty lethargic and somewhat depressed feeling at times. It boosted my spirits to see that my labs are moving in the right direction though.

I've changed my HCG/HMG protocol to 1000iu/7.5iu qd, respectively. I should be done with these in a little under a month.

You are completely confused about what you are doing. PCT doesn't work this way, neither do PCT drugs, there is no purpose in trying to achieve "normal" bloodwork with all these compounds. There is NO reason to think it will stay normal after withdrawl of PCT drugs. In fact, you will find you are just that much more out of whack when you stop the PCT drugs.

I mean 25mg/day aromasin when you are on NO aromatizing compounds? It just doesn't make sense, you are going to drive your aromatase activity through the roof, and when you stop the rebound will be worse than before.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

I have currently dropped the tamoxifen and reduced my clomiphene dose to 50mg qd. I plan to taper off all PCT drugs I'm using as to minimize any crash I might experience.

For what it's worth I'm starting to feel a lot better. Drive to get in the gym is coming back, appetite is picking up again. Still pretty low libido and no morning wood.

I know some of you think it's crazy that I'm doing so much. Even still, I'm going to add mucuna pruriens and DAA to the mix.

If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. Should I drop the exemestane? I was planning on running it through next week, which is my last week of HCG/HMG.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

There isn't much scientific evidence to suggest any of the above does much for restoring HPTA. An "everything but the kitchen sink" approach doesn't generally work. Clean out and rely on your body to work its way out of it with good diet.

I understand the sentiment but after reading enough literature about dudes who were shut down for over a year while they tried to "let their body work it out" I'd rather rely on research proven tactics to restore my HPTA as quickly as possible.

Note that in the aforementioned studies the guys were started on clomiphene and/or HCG/HMG and returned to eugonadal within months.

 

[Xenorikki]

In my personal experience I was shutdown for almost 18 months and when I came off completely. I ran clomid at 100/50/50/25/25/25/25/25. And tamox. 20/20/10/10/10/10 then after clomid ran some aromasin at 12.5 a day for a week. I was also running igf-1 lr3 for 6 weeks. After the clomid cleared my system my test levels showed 16.9 (canadian testing is wierd trt levels is 9. Somthing or lower) and my estro was a bit out of wack. But 2 months later I was back down to TRT levels. To be permanently off TRT is tough I know a few ppl who same as me couldn't do it.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

In my personal experience I was shutdown for almost 18 months and when I came off completely. I ran clomid at 100/50/50/25/25/25/25/25. And tamox. 20/20/10/10/10/10 then after clomid ran some aromasin at 12.5 a day for a week. I was also running igf-1 lr3 for 6 weeks. After the clomid cleared my system my test levels showed 16.9 (canadian testing is wierd trt levels is 9. Somthing or lower) and my estro was a bit out of wack. But 2 months later I was back down to TRT levels. To be permanently off TRT is tough I know a few ppl who same as me couldn't do it.

So your PCT got your T levels to 16.9 nmol/L? If these units are correct that's pretty good considering a reference range of 15.2-24.5.

What exactly do you mean you were shut down for 18 months? Was this before you had tried any PCT? Or was this despite your best PCT efforts?

Are you completely off T right now and all hormone levels are in check?

 

[Xenorikki]

The reference levels on my bloodwork was 17 somthing so I was right at the top. No my test slid back down and I'm on hrt now lol. I was shutdown for 18 months blasting and cruising. I had done 2 pcts before that period with no bloodwork

 

[Xenorikki]

Sorry I can't type. I thought my reference level was 27. And this was right at the top of my test level at 16.9 the highest it went. Then I started feeling shitty getting progressively worse haha and got retested and was low out of range

 

[Xenorikki]

Are you paying for all your lab work out of pocket? Do you have access to an endo? Do you have insurance?

Even tho my family doc and endo realllly had no clue how to treat hpta shutdwon due to steroid abuse (endo prescribed me 25 mg clomid every 2 days LOL) it was helpful when the time came to throw in the towel and just go on hrt. In the period I was off tho trying to restarted my hpta and stay at a normal level I got my wife pregnant so it was worth it.

 

[pittsburgh]

Our fertility MD has me on 1000iu HCG twice a week and Clomid 50mg Every other day.

I feel much, much better. Sperm count is above 20 million.

Keep it simple. As long as you using exogenous Testosterone, your natural production will be suppressed.

 

[Xenorikki]

I only had access to an endo and she wouldn't give me enuff clomid so I took research grade clomid at 50 mg a day with igf-1 lr3 and my sperm count was 40 million per whatever. 20 mil is good man. Goodluck with getting the lady prego. Even with clomid hcg and whatever other drugs if you've been shutdown long enough hrt is probably what's going to end up being what you need.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Are you paying for all your lab work out of pocket? Do you have access to an endo? Do you have insurance?

Even tho my family doc and endo realllly had no clue how to treat hpta shutdwon due to steroid abuse (endo prescribed me 25 mg clomid every 2 days LOL) it was helpful when the time came to throw in the towel and just go on hrt. In the period I was off tho trying to restarted my hpta and stay at a normal level I got my wife pregnant so it was worth it.

Yea man I have insurance but have chosen not to consult an endo until I have exhausted all other options. Would rather not have any of this on my medical record.

I really hope life-long HRT isn't where I end up but you never know with how long I've been shut down. Next week is my last week of HCG/HMG and exemestane. After that I'll be on 50mg clomiphene qd and all that herbal shit.

Going to try a 200mcg test of triptorelin after the HCG/HMG clears my system.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Did my final shot of 5000iu HCG & 75iu HMG today.

Going to hit 200mcg triptorelin at the end of next week.

PCT will now consist of 20mg tamoxifen & 50mg clomiphene qd (plus all that herbal shit I listed). Dropped the exemestane.

Also started on 25mg of Ostarine qd, just a 4 week cycle to see if I can get myself feeling a little better. It really sucks having no libido.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Hey guys as promised here are my monthly labs. Obviously not doing so good, FSH & LH are moving in the wrong direction, T & E are through the floor, all around bad shit.

ANY suggestions would be helpful at this point. I'm getting used to feeling like a bitch so that isn't really bothering me anymore (although it's a feeling I'd like to shake ASAP), maintaining my size incredibly well, actually putting weight back on after starting the Shortcut to Size routine. Going to drop all that herbal bullshit as soon as I'm out, obviously not doing shit for me. Still no libido or morning wood, although lately it's really been trying but only manages like a half hard-on in the morning.

Do you think I should do another run of HCG/HMG? That's about the only thing I can think to do at this point. Still on 20mg tamoxifen & 50mg clomiphene qd. Should I adjust those doses any? I also started naltrexone @ 50mg qpm a few days ago and will probably adjust that dose way down to a LDN protocol, like 5mg qpm.

 

[ufcguy]

here is what has worked for me in the past
100mcg of triptorelin
60mg of toremfine for 3 weeks
50mg of clomid 3 weeks.

ran bloods and i had been off all these for over a month. and i was right at 600
i dont stay on all yr. i dont blast and cruise. i do use gh and peps in during and in btw cycles.