Short Cycles: Cycle For Pennies/SHIC

[Yousef12O2]

@DOGGCRAPP spoke for himself on this one. But he brought up a good point that I have discussed with many in DM’s as there is so much focus on gear here and the “magical cycle”.

What far too many guys forget is that serious guys train their ass off and don’t miss a meal no matter what the gear dosage is- 5g or 2g.

Does gear dosage play a role? You bet your ass it does. But food, diet, training and recovery make a bodybuilder. Just because you drop your dosages doesn’t mean you drop your training, diet and recovery. Comes down to discipline.

There are no “off days” and “cruises” in this sport for those who are serious.

I don't know brother but Mr Olympia Dexter Jacskon was known for cruising and down sizing just like Kevin Levrone. I believe Shawn Rhoden used to do it too(not sure though) because in the offseason he was smaller and softer. Same deal with Phil Heath.

Drugs play a major role no doubt about it but when you have cbum saying he does 500 test in the offseason I dkn't think he's lying, he doesnt have the full drugged up look and can't get bigger because of weight cap.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Absolutely honoured to get a reply from you Dante. I don't care if I sound like a schoolgirl, I'm a big fan of yours and have been for many years.

The short cycles is mostly what I was interested in discussing, the conversation did get sidetracked a bit by the doses etc but that was not my concern. So getting it back on track I did also see your recommendation to match the training with the hormones to give the body a rest, and I think you may have even encouraged some complete time off the gym for the few days prior to restarting. That was really my main interest, not the dosages.

I'm happy with your answer, like @b-boy said that approach worked decades ago and there's no reason why it would have stopped working now (to me 2003 is like yesterday anyway lol) so I've just found it interesting that we got such different responses in that same thread 20 years ago.

You mentioned you might do somethings differently, could you elabourate please?



I do remember, as well as Rea and there used to be a lot of talks about SHIC cycles back in the day. Not something I ever did but tbh when something is presented as very different to what the crowds are doing and you get people like Borresen and Trudel promoting them it does make you listen.

To the bold up above. I would go longer with the blast and let the individual himself decide when he feels its time to cruise. I would never use clomid again (only enclomiphene). I think cruises can be 7-10 days. Probably best to just use TRT dosage test during cruise (please everyone its not a science here...its just a time period where you are training lighter, letting your joints rest, and gathering yourself to make another push with food, training, dosages etc...i want to destress every part of that system for a guy to make a new push) <---sometimes people overthink this to the ultimate degree....I pushed food and heavy weights for lower to high reps with people in training, that was the emphasis to put muscle mass on them. You cannot do that year round non stop without burning a guy out on food and training. So I would let him go until he says he needs to take that 7-10 days of maintenance....I make cruises fun. You try to go in an discover a new exercise or two for every single bodypart that you can use in the future when you are bombed out on an exercise for said bodypart. Cruises you go in and use about 50-70% of your usual poundages for higher reps (like 20 rep sets)....you lose absolutely no muscle mass. Its all a setup to make a new push. AT the end of those 7-10 days guys are usually chomping at the bit to get back at it eating and training wise.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

I think and I could be wrong the “off/cruise” here is what we now have the term deload for as it seems to relate more to training than anything else

 

[Tomgrass]

You’re an old git like me so you no doubt remember Paul Borreson advocating high dose, short duration cycles with short off periods. Ian Harrison used to speak openly about this protocol as well.
A typical cycle was:
1g test and 1g deca for 4 weeks.
100mg prop and 100mg winstrol for 3 weeks.
Hcg, clomid, nolva for 3 weeks.
Repeat.

We are talking blitz cycles right where he said that growth was accomplished via different pathways.

 

[juggy38]

If a guy is running 1000mg for say 6 weeks then takes 14 days off down to day 150mg a week , how much do you think his levels will come down in 2 weeks , say 50% , 75%??
I would think that unless you were running short ester like Prop , Suspension or base that you probably really wouldn't feel a huge difference in 2 weeks.
Also , do you program these short breaks with something like a deload in training just to give the CNS a break while the dose.is reduced as well.??

You can do math and easily figure that question out. Steady state blood levels/2 at the first half life, then that number/2 at the next half life….continued on until you hit 14 days.

Theoretically…..obviously other variables will somewhat skew actual levels

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

@DOGGCRAPP spoke for himself on this one. But he brought up a good point that I have discussed with many in DM’s as there is so much focus on gear here and the “magical cycle”.

What far too many guys forget is that serious guys train their ass off and don’t miss a meal no matter what the gear dosage is- 5g or 2g.

Does gear dosage play a role? You bet your ass it does. But food, diet, training and recovery make a bodybuilder. Just because you drop your dosages doesn’t mean you drop your training, diet and recovery. Comes down to discipline.

There are no “off days” and “cruises” in this sport for those who are serious.

To the bold up above. I used to have guys do widowmakers especially for legs and sometimes crazy stuff for deadlifts too. Getting under a bar and squatting rock bottom deep with 250-405lbs on your back for 20 reps year round is a one way trip (in my opinion) to burn a guy full out. Ive never known a guy who could do it year round. There is no doubt that way of doing things with heavy weight high reps pours on the size but I had to kind of feel my way thru with guys mindsets to get them recovered to attack it again.

 

[juggy38]

Dusty H the DC disciple…always said he usually grew on 750-1g test and 400-600mg of EQ or deca….IIRC.

I’m pretty sure EQ is his favorite.

Aligns with @DOGGCRAPP dosing…

 

[Yousef12O2]

To the bold up above. I would go longer with the blast and let the individual himself decide when he feels its time to cruise. I would never use clomid again (only enclomiphene). I think cruises can be 7-10 days. Probably best to just use TRT dosage test during cruise (please everyone its not a science here...its just a time period where you are training lighter, letting your joints rest, and gathering yourself to make another push with food, training, dosages etc...i want to destress every part of that system for a guy to make a new push) <---sometimes people overthink this to the ultimate degree....I pushed food and heavy weights for lower to high reps with people in training, that was the emphasis to put muscle mass on them. You cannot do that year round non stop without burning a guy out on food and training. So I would let him go until he says he needs to take that 7-10 days of maintenance....I make cruises fun. You try to go in an discover a new exercise or two for every single bodypart that you can use in the future when you are bombed out on an exercise for said bodypart. Cruises you go in and use about 50-70% of your usual poundages for higher reps (like 20 rep sets)....you lose absolutely no muscle mass. Its all a setup to make a new push. AT the end of those 7-10 days guys are usually chomping at the bit to get back at it eating and training wise.

Why would you cruise for 10 days brother? The ester takes much more time to get out of your system.

 

[bbxtreme]

To the bold up above. I used to have guys do widowmakers especially for legs and sometimes crazy stuff for deadlifts too. Getting under a bar and squatting rock bottom deep with 250-405lbs on your back for 20 reps year round is a one way trip (in my opinion) to burn a guy full out. Ive never known a guy who could do it year round. There is no doubt that way of doing things with heavy weight high reps pours on the size but I had to kind of feel my way thru with guys mindsets to get them recovered to attack it again.

AJ has thrown a lot of your work in our new training program. It is humbling to say the least. Your DC Quad stretches at the end of quads will make you cry. Widow maker dips for triceps. There’s no substitute for your methods.

This could be a whole separate thread, but I and others on here I’m sure would love to hear your evolved thoughts on training (if any) since creating all your movements.

 

[bbxtreme]

I think and I could be wrong the “off/cruise” here is what we now have the term deload for as it seems to relate more to training than anything else

A de-load is a week or two of training with less intensity. Do a Meadow’s or DC program and you’ll need one.

Cruising is people pretending they’re off cycle when they really aren’t.

 

[bbxtreme]

I don't know brother but Mr Olympia Dexter Jacskon was known for cruising and down sizing just like Kevin Levrone. I believe Shawn Rhoden used to do it too(not sure though) because in the offseason he was smaller and softer. Same deal with Phil Heath.

Drugs play a major role no doubt about it but when you have cbum saying he does 500 test in the offseason I dkn't think he's lying, he doesnt have the full drugged up look and can't get bigger because of weight cap.

I think we get more into body recomposition at that level. I know I do and most other guys. It’s say 1500-2g gear vs 3 and different compounds. But the food and training do not change.

 

[Deleted member 226465]

A de-load is a week or two of training with less intensity. Do a Meadow’s or DC program and you’ll need one.

Cruising is people pretending they’re off cycle when they really aren’t.

this is true. Of course they could be telling the truth as there’s a lot of variables but I’m always skeptical when people say they made their biggest improvements on a cruise/trt (added 20lbs this year and was just on 300mg test)

Think it’s a badge of honour to be low dose but in reality no one really cares when it comes to stepping on stage your dosages don’t detract from your points

 

[Jefe]

this is true. Of course they could be telling the truth as there’s a lot of variables but I’m always skeptical when people say they made their biggest improvements on a cruise/trt (added 20lbs this year and was just on 300mg test)

Think it’s a badge of honour to be low dose but in reality no one really cares when it comes to stepping on stage your dosages don’t detract from your points

Maybe their training/recovery is better than years prior? Getting older and metabolism slowing! Not overtraining?

Could be a lot of things. Getting smarter.

Dosages don’t detract from points I snorted

 

[RandomMachine]

Why would you cruise for 10 days brother? The ester takes much more time to get out of your system.

He says why in the quote you replied to...most of his reply is dedicated to saying why.

I think cruises can be 7-10 days. Probably best to just use TRT dosage test during cruise (please everyone its not a science here...its just a time period where you are training lighter, letting your joints rest, and gathering yourself to make another push with food, training, dosages etc...i want to destress every part of that system for a guy to make a new push) <---sometimes people overthink this to the ultimate degree....

 

[Golden]

You’re an old git like me so you no doubt remember Paul Borreson advocating high dose, short duration cycles with short off periods. Ian Harrison used to speak openly about this protocol as well.
A typical cycle was:
1g test and 1g deca for 4 weeks.
100mg prop and 100mg winstrol for 3 weeks.
Hcg, clomid, nolva for 3 weeks.
Repeat.

I remember Paul. I remember watching the seminar he did with Ian.

I had all the copies of his magazine, 'battle news' (can't remember if that's the name) and also had his books. I was a teenager then but remember when he was with chemical and kerry before he went it alone.

 

[okko]

I think i read on some DC explanation of short cycle that they would be a few weeks long esters then switch to short ones and ending last 2 weeks with suspension so basically the dose in your system keeps raising over the cycle then get rock bottom at the end as long short and no ester will be synchronized
Never tried this
But 3 way split DC 2 times a week for 4 to 6 weeks has been the best mass builder for me in all my 12y of training by far
My joints were screaming at thr end and CNS was dead (used excelsior prewo back then first batches that had amphétamine in it...

 

[MR. BMJ]

Not sure how I missed this thread Thanks!

 

[Biggerp73]

Starting back about 9 months ago I began experimenting with shorter cycles and time off in between. After a few months of "blasting" I always seem to plateau. And increasing the dose only works so much. Taking a few weeks off to let everything "desensitize" was the idea. I've noticed that the first two weeks I am off (I just use HCG, no trt when off), I just look better and dryer. After about three weeks off I slowly start to lose some size and get softer. So for me in my experience it seems like 3 weeks off after every couple of months blasting seems to work best.

 

[Biggerp73]

*resensitize