Thia life is fragile. Had Bilateral pulmonary embolism

[packing_it_on]

I'm glad to hear you are doing okay now, brother.

It's a good reminder to us all, that we aren't unbreakable.

All the best mate, and I'm glad you're still with us.

-Pack

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

TEXT:

About 85% of air travel thrombosis victims are athletic, usually endurance-type athletes like marathoners. People with slower resting blood flow are at greater risk of stasis, stagnant blood subject to clotting. Also, they are more likely to have bruises and sore muscles that can trigger clotting.

Athletes should flex their legs at fifteen minute intervals during air travel.

Medical journals report that, during air travel, blood flow slows down, especially in the lower legs, and coagulability rises hour by hour. Blood clots form in the calves of about 5% of air travelers. Clots can cause pain and swelling. If a blood clot reaches the lungs, it can cause pain, fainting, and death. Athletic people are at greater risk because, with lower resting blood flow to the large muscles, they are more prone to stasis, stagnant blood subject to clotting. A large majority of air travel thrombosis victims contacting Airhealth.org are athletic, usually endurance-type athletes like marathoners. No other risk factor comes close. Age is supposed to be a risk factor for DVT, but 83% of these victims are under age 60.

Interesting stuff:
Deep Vein Thrombosis in Air Travellers

https://www.caremark.com/wps/portal/HEALTH_RESOURCES?topic=dvt

Is it of value to drink large amounts of water?

There appears to be no evidence that it is. In fact a study in Japan by Hamada et al, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that subjects who drank one cup of water per hour during a nine- hour flight experienced increased blood viscosity. Interestingly the study found that those who drank an electrolyte fluid (similar to a good quality sports drink) in the same manner, had no increase in blood viscosity and no increase in urinary output. Hamada used an electrolyte drink containing 110 mg (per 8 oz cup) of sodium and 30 mg of potassium (JAMA, February 20, 2002, pp. 844-45).

 

[wasp]

Hopefully Im sure they did a CBC. WHat was your hemoglobin/hematocrit? AAS will raise those quite a bit and can be a danger even at low doses. My hemoglobin is now 19 just from being on HRT with 120 mg/wk. Im now getting phlebotomies.

THat coumadin, Warfarin, isnt bad at all man! Im on it for life now. Yeah, ill be taking it till the day I die. I have not suffered as much as a bruise while on it and dont bleed that bad at all. YOull not even know youre on it. I take 6mg/day and my INR is to be between 2 and 3.

You truly are lucky that you escaped with your life. I agree that it was your being proactive about how you felt that saved you. Good thing you didnt try to "tough it out".

PS, as you probably know, it was a blood clot that nearly killed me 2 years ago with a heart attack.

mal, whats a safe globin? thats what they check when you donate, mine was 16.7 and that puts me about a 50 crit b4 i gave...............giving dropped me to a 46 crit


you can figure your crit by glob x 3..................is your crit 57?

 

[animal eater]

TEXT:

About 85% of air travel thrombosis victims are athletic, usually endurance-type athletes like marathoners. People with slower resting blood flow are at greater risk of stasis, stagnant blood subject to clotting. Also, they are more likely to have bruises and sore muscles that can trigger clotting.

Athletes should flex their legs at fifteen minute intervals during air travel.

Medical journals report that, during air travel, blood flow slows down, especially in the lower legs, and coagulability rises hour by hour. Blood clots form in the calves of about 5% of air travelers. Clots can cause pain and swelling. If a blood clot reaches the lungs, it can cause pain, fainting, and death. Athletic people are at greater risk because, with lower resting blood flow to the large muscles, they are more prone to stasis, stagnant blood subject to clotting. A large majority of air travel thrombosis victims contacting Airhealth.org are athletic, usually endurance-type athletes like marathoners. No other risk factor comes close. Age is supposed to be a risk factor for DVT, but 83% of these victims are under age 60.

Interesting stuff:
Deep Vein Thrombosis in Air Travellers

https://www.caremark.com/wps/portal/HEALTH_RESOURCES?topic=dvt

Is it of value to drink large amounts of water?

There appears to be no evidence that it is. In fact a study in Japan by Hamada et al, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that subjects who drank one cup of water per hour during a nine- hour flight experienced increased blood viscosity. Interestingly the study found that those who drank an electrolyte fluid (similar to a good quality sports drink) in the same manner, had no increase in blood viscosity and no increase in urinary output. Hamada used an electrolyte drink containing 110 mg (per 8 oz cup) of sodium and 30 mg of potassium (JAMA, February 20, 2002, pp. 844-45).

DC, The odd one here is that they are inclined to think that it was more from the pelvis as opposed to calve area. That and I can promise that marathons and animal eater do not co exists. They did say however that my increased muscle mass in this case saved me because the veins are larger and even if experiencing blockage could still function better. Off to see my Australia doctor for further testing.

 

[chris250]

Hey bro, im glad everything is ok with ya now..Im sure that was a scary situation...I wish you the best, and be safe...take it easy for a bit, and im sure you will be able to hit it hard again...

 

[SecondAct]

The pelvis is strange, but given your daughter was lying on you, probably understandable. The combination of this being common in air travel and her slung across your lap, it seems highly likely that that combo is the culprit. I had a co-worker pass from a post-flight DVT about 15 years ago. He was like 35 and otherwise healthy. Best of luck to you.

 

[maldorf]

mal, whats a safe globin? thats what they check when you donate, mine was 16.7 and that puts me about a 50 crit b4 i gave...............giving dropped me to a 46 crit


you can figure your crit by glob x 3..................is your crit 57?

My hemoglobin was at 19 a week ago and I got a phlebotomy of 500 ml. Im going in this week to have my hemoglobin checked and if its over 16, they will do another phlebotomy. The doc wants it at around 16, and yeah usually figure that hematocrit is about 3x the HGB. Its not exact, and can be off. My hematoloigst goes by the hemoglobin number and doesnt really ever mention hematocrit. I asked him and he says he goes by hemoglobin, but I dont know why.

 

[animal eater]

Many thanks to all the positive wishes. After a good night sleep I am feeling pretty much good as new. A few test scheduled in the days to come to rule out any abnormalities.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Boy Maldorf that seems a little bit excessive.....

The range for athletes is usually

12.5 to 18.0 (tops) on hemoglobin and
36 to (52-54 tops) on hematocrit......

But I suppose your doctor is doing that due to your blood clotting disorder

Swale--leading HRT doc pretty much out there.

Originally Posted by SWALE
I have never seen hard and fast incidences from a study, but know that the (unncecessarily high) acceleration from bi-weekly dosing is more likely to raise H&H (Hemoglobin and Hematocrit) to dangerous levels.

The ceiling for me is a Hemoglobin of 18.0 and a Hematocrit of 55.0. Then they are on their way down to the Red Cross to donate a wonderfully healthy (as my patients are all going to the gym, eating right, and taking their supplements--well, they TELL me they are at least!) pint of the good stuff.

For those who would be deferred due to a prexisting condition or, perhaps, use of finasteride (another reason I am not fond of it) then a therapeutic phlebotomy can be arranged at the local hospital.

I must admit the TheKing's strategy WOULD work. I also notice that he has a particular talent for figuring out how to get around the rules (LOL). However, as a physician, and Board Member at my local Red Cross, I must say that doing as he advises is an unethical--and potentially dangerous--waste of scant Red Cross resources.

There is no given time duration for witholding TRT from a polycythemic patient. Every case is different.

I am happy to note that usually when the H&H is too high, it is becasue the patient forgot to drink water while they were fasting for their labwork. That is why I always grab a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel along with their CBC (Complete Blood Count). If the BUN/creatinine ratio is greater than 20.0, I know that they are dehydrated. This concentrates the blood, and falsely elevates the H&H.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I would venture to guess virtually every juicer in this forum and particularly the ones that are post 28 years old and juice year round have hematocrits 48-54 and hemoglobins 16,17 and upward......if they took bloodwork right smack in the middle of their cycle and not the "once every 3 years" when they get off.

And I would also venture to say there are a few guys who are walking around with hemoglobins at plus 19 and hematocrits at plus 57 who get no bloodwork done (out of sight out of mind) and think they are perfectly healthy because they "dont feel anything is wrong".....and they are truly a blood clot waiting to happen.

 

[ScottMcD1]

I would venture to guess virtually every juicer in this forum and particularly the ones that are post 28 years old and juice year round have hematocrits 48-54 and hemoglobins 16,17 and upward......if they took bloodwork right smack in the middle of their cycle and not the "once every 3 years" when they get off

I'm going to qualify this so nobody gets upset... since I have virtually no experience on that side of things(just reading).

But it's chilling when I see guys that are on 100-200 mg of test weekly for HRT who report having to donate regularly and tweak dosage downward to keep things in check. Many of them claiming to do cardio regularly(course they could be fibbing on that) and eat good diets(again maybe chicken+veggies is really chicken tenders and french fries). I can only imagine what some of the much "more than HRT" dosages are doing to people both short and long term.

To the OP, glad you are in good health again and were proactive when things felt amiss... these messages are VERY important for people like myself. Thank you for sharing truly

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm going to qualify this so nobody gets upset... since I have virtually no experience on that side of things(just reading).

But it's chilling when I see guys that are on 100-200 mg of test weekly for HRT who report having to donate regularly and tweak dosage downward to keep things in check. Many of them claiming to do cardio regularly(course they could be fibbing on that) and eat good diets(again maybe chicken+veggies is really chicken tenders and french fries). I can only imagine what some of the much "more than HRT" dosages are doing to people both short and long term.

To the OP, glad you are in good health again and were proactive when things felt amiss... these messages are VERY important for people like myself. Thank you for sharing truly

You aint kidding....and thats on 100 to 300mg of test a week they are getting high hematocrit and hemaglobin. Now you see why guys using

1500 test
600 deca
50mg dball a day

dont dare get bloodwork done smack dab in the middle of their cycles.....it would truly be some scary stuff.....but on the other hand testosterone is extremely cardio protective and makes the endothelial lining extremely smooth....so testosterone could very well also be whats protecting people from dying.....

 

[animal eater]

You aint kidding....and thats on 100 to 300mg of test a week they are getting high hematocrit and hemaglobin. Now you see why guys using

1500 test
600 deca
50mg dball a day

dont dare get bloodwork done smack dab in the middle of their cycles.....it would truly be some scary stuff.....but on the other hand testosterone is extremely cardio protective and makes the endothelial lining extremely smooth....so testosterone could very well also be whats protecting people from dying.....

Again, the million dollar question. On one hand staying strong and fit can save your life. It MAY have with me, on the other hand for a lot of people there is definately too much of a good thing that can finish you.

Question? If you are not a world class competitor, then why take gear like one? There is always going to be some sort of reaction to every action. Could I take massive doses and maybe one day hit the scales 20 pounds heavier? Probably but at what cost.

This whole incident has reinforced the notion that at 205 and relatively lean that that is good enough and big enough. Will I ever be confused as Mr Olympia? Not a chance, but to the great percentage of the population I look pretty fit and strong. For now that is going to be fine with me.

 

[Shelby]

If you are not a world class competitor, then why take gear like one? .

What's the reasoning behind this argument? I see it all the time but it never makes sense to me.
If you have good genetics for bodybuilding, then it's okay to risk your health in pursuit of it?
But if you don't have good genetics (but just love bodybuilding) then it's NOT okay to risk your health in pursuit of it?

 

[animal eater]

What's the reasoning behind this argument? I see it all the time but it never makes sense to me.
If you have good genetics for bodybuilding, then it's okay to risk your health in pursuit of it?
But if you don't have good genetics (but just love bodybuilding) then it's NOT okay to risk your health in pursuit of it?

I think you missed my point a bit. Personally I think a healthy and productive life is forever more important and what even top level, top tier genetic specimens take is beyond me. What's even more head scratchingly curious is someone with average or below average genetics who take a boat load of gear for what? Destructive beyond belief.

 

[maldorf]

You aint kidding....and thats on 100 to 300mg of test a week they are getting high hematocrit and hemaglobin. Now you see why guys using

1500 test
600 deca
50mg dball a day

dont dare get bloodwork done smack dab in the middle of their cycles.....it would truly be some scary stuff..

Yep. Most guys wont believe that being on 100-300 mg/wk of test can do that to your blood. What they dont realize is that when youre on something long term the levels slowly build up. So you have these guys that cycle on say 1-2 grams/wk total AAS and then cruise on 200-300 mg/wk and think that while they are cruinsg that their blood is going to have a chance to go back to normal. It just doesnt work that way. This is one of the reason I think cruising is so dangerous. I didnt have my heart attack until I started cruising. I cruised for over 1 year in between my cycles, so i never got off. Guys think 200 mg/wk is a HRT dose, LOL.

 

[maldorf]

I think you missed my point a bit. Personally I think a healthy and productive life is forever more important and what even top level, top tier genetic specimens take is beyond me. What's even more head scratchingly curious is someone with average or below average genetics who take a boat load of gear for what? Destructive beyond belief.

How I look at it now too.

 

[KillerStack]

What's even more head scratchingly curious is someone with average or below average genetics who take a boat load of gear for what? Destructive beyond belief.

For what? What shelby said, for LOVE!

It's a philosophical issue. There's many top level bodybuilders who in many ways hate what they're doing, do not truly enjoy it. On the other hand there may be some comparatively shitty recreational bodybuilder who gets meaning and happiness from juicing (if getting happiness through drugs is sane is another topic). Many people seem to feel money, success and fame are things for which it's worth it to sacrifice your health. It's a very strange mindset to me. What are you going to do with money and fame in the grave? And was it even worth it while you lived if you didn't even truly enjoy it? And let's not even get into the issue of money in bodybuilding. There's little to no money in bb for anyone - the worst reason to take bb drugs, to be sure. The eventual is fame is very minor, perhaps in some homo schmoe circles you'll become somewhat famous, I don't know.

Every person should decide for themselves what anything is worth to them. However, just because you're successful in bb doesn't necessarily make it "worth it", in my mind.

 

[taslajrisi]

I would venture to guess virtually every juicer in this forum and particularly the ones that are post 28 years old and juice year round have hematocrits 48-54 and hemoglobins 16,17 and upward......if they took bloodwork right smack in the middle of their cycle and not the "once every 3 years" when they get off.

And I would also venture to say there are a few guys who are walking around with hemoglobins at plus 19 and hematocrits at plus 57 who get no bloodwork done (out of sight out of mind) and think they are perfectly healthy because they "dont feel anything is wrong".....and they are truly a blood clot waiting to happen.

doggcrapp
i am on hrt and am experiencing this exact type issue w HH creaping up over time and i give blood etc. to keep them in check. I noticed that looking over my last several blood tests that when my HH is high, my platelet count is low almost at the bottom edge of the range. Platelets are what makes blood clot so less platelets is less change of clotting? could this be a way of the body adjusting to the higher HH? what about all the people who live at high altitudes? they have off the charts crits for their whole life?

 

[animal eater]

For what? What shelby said, for LOVE!

It's a philosophical issue. There's many top level bodybuilders who in many ways hate what they're doing, do not truly enjoy it. On the other hand there may be some comparatively shitty recreational bodybuilder who gets meaning and happiness from juicing (if getting happiness through drugs is sane is another topic). Many people seem to feel money, success and fame are things for which it's worth it to sacrifice your health. It's a very strange mindset to me. What are you going to do with money and fame in the grave? And was it even worth it while you lived if you didn't even truly enjoy it? And let's not even get into the issue of money in bodybuilding. There's little to no money in bb for anyone - the worst reason to take bb drugs, to be sure. The eventual is fame is very minor, perhaps in some homo schmoe circles you'll become somewhat famous, I don't know.

Every person should decide for themselves what anything is worth to them. However, just because you're successful in bb doesn't necessarily make it "worth it", in my mind.[/QUote}

I am all for leading a happy and even more important fufilling life. My point is often youth overlooks the future. Athletes of every nature fight with this one. The shelf life is short but the fame and ability to find their way into the history books exists. Where as the average NBA basketball player has a salary of 5.9 million bodybuilders as a whole don't make shit.

Does that mean they shouldn't follow their dreams? I would never say that. What I would say is that goals of a 25 year old shouldn't put you totally behind the eight ball for the rest of your life. Only a very few gifted people will ever make a living in this game and be anything beyond a small foot note in history, and still I love the game. But a long time ago I figured out I would make a far superior living teaching, training and owning fitness centers than I ever could competing. I mean think about it for a second, how many Olympia's did Ronnie win before he could retire being a cop?