Thyroid blood test results on 10IU GH

[trenned]

I've read through tons of posts about GH and thyroid. Most believed it's necessary to take T4 with high dosed HGH while some didn't (type II I believe). So I thought it would be worth to post my bloods here. My results are on 10-12IUs of optis daily. I've never used thyroid meds.

TSH 4.73 mIU/l (0.40-4.00 mIU/l
fT3 4.57 pmol/l (2.40-6.00 pmol/l)
fT4 9.6 pmol/l (9.0-19.0 pmol/l)

Other labs:
Insulin 5.5 mIU/l (2.0-20.0 mIU/l)
Potassium 5.6 mmol/l (3.5-5.1 mmol/l) - shit. I had to hop on ramipril 10mg a month ago to get my bp in order on a higher test cycle (already was on 80mg telmisartan and 10mg nebivolol).

TSH is high meaning there's not enough thyroid hormone. T4 is almost out of the bottom range. It seems like I need to get on some T4 asap? 200mcg? Thoughts? Would doing GH EOD let my thyroid bounce back while I'm waiting for the T4 to arrive?

 

[luki7788]

yes you must add t4 because because this is the beginning of hypothyroidism

 

[PhillD]

the good thing is your tsh is high.
tsh is inversely proportional to t4.
being t4 low, the tsh is high.
your body is reacting well at the moment...for the moment, but if you carry on like this...who knows!?

200 mcg seems too much to me, even though I don't know anything about you and don't know how much you weigh.


Doctors often use weight as a guideline for determining dosage.
Some clinicians use the formula of 1.6 micrograms of T4 for every 1 kilogram (or 2.2 pounds) of body weight for a starting dosage.

 

[nothuman]

Yea your TSH is too high. I would get on 100mcg T4. It's important to take on an empty stomach. I take in the middle of the night when I wake up to use the bathroom.

 

[Sully1234]

Yea your TSH is too high. I would get on 100mcg T4. It's important to take on an empty stomach. I take in the middle of the night when I wake up to use the bathroom.

No coffee either. Effects absorption.

 

[he-man100]

I've read through tons of posts about GH and thyroid. Most believed it's necessary to take T4 with high dosed HGH while some didn't (type II I believe). So I thought it would be worth to post my bloods here. My results are on 10-12IUs of optis daily. I've never used thyroid meds.

TSH 4.73 mIU/l (0.40-4.00 mIU/l
fT3 4.57 pmol/l (2.40-6.00 pmol/l)
fT4 9.6 pmol/l (9.0-19.0 pmol/l)

Other labs:
Insulin 5.5 mIU/l (2.0-20.0 mIU/l)
Potassium 5.6 mmol/l (3.5-5.1 mmol/l) - shit. I had to hop on ramipril 10mg a month ago to get my bp in order on a higher test cycle (already was on 80mg telmisartan and 10mg nebivolol).

TSH is high meaning there's not enough thyroid hormone. T4 is almost out of the bottom range. It seems like I need to get on some T4 asap? 200mcg? Thoughts? Would doing GH EOD let my thyroid bounce back while I'm waiting for the T4 to arrive?

How long have you been on GH before bloodwork?

 

[trenned]

How long have you been on GH before bloodwork?

Few months on higher doses. 3-4iu for more than a year before that.



I've got access to 200mcg tabs which don't have a splitting line. If you take too much t4 won't your body just not use it unlike t3? I'm around 114kg. I already have a resting heart rate that is too high so if too much t4 can also make you hyper and increase it further I'd rather go with the lowest dose.

Thanks for the tips. I already take nattokinase, ALA etc in the middle of the night so i can add the t4 to that stack

 

[luki7788]

Few months on higher doses. 3-4iu for more than a year before that.



I've got access to 200mcg tabs which don't have a splitting line. If you take too much t4 won't your body just not use it unlike t3? I'm around 114kg. I already have a resting heart rate that is too high so if too much t4 can also make you hyper and increase it further I'd rather go with the lowest dose.

Thanks for the tips. I already take nattokinase, ALA etc in the middle of the night so i can add the t4 to that stack

https://www.amazon.com/Ezy-Dose-Pill-Cutter-Dispenser/dp/B001KYVO78/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=tablet+cutter&qid=1692902762&sr=8-5

just use google...

 

[CorgisOnTren]

Few months on higher doses. 3-4iu for more than a year before that.



I've got access to 200mcg tabs which don't have a splitting line. If you take too much t4 won't your body just not use it unlike t3? I'm around 114kg. I already have a resting heart rate that is too high so if too much t4 can also make you hyper and increase it further I'd rather go with the lowest dose.

Thanks for the tips. I already take nattokinase, ALA etc in the middle of the night so i can add the t4 to that stack

Synthetic T4 has a longer half life unlike T3. If you’re not splitting it perfectly down the middle it doesn’t really matter at all as long as you eventually get it all in your system. Doctors even recommend doubling up the next day if you forgot it one morning.

 

[nothuman]

Few months on higher doses. 3-4iu for more than a year before that.



I've got access to 200mcg tabs which don't have a splitting line. If you take too much t4 won't your body just not use it unlike t3? I'm around 114kg. I already have a resting heart rate that is too high so if too much t4 can also make you hyper and increase it further I'd rather go with the lowest dose.

Thanks for the tips. I already take nattokinase, ALA etc in the middle of the night so i can add the t4 to that stack

200mcg will be too much for almost anyone if you're just looking to optimize your thyroid. If you take that much, then chances are you're taking it for fat loss/bodybuilding purposes at that point, which is fine if you're ok with that.

 

[trenned]

https://www.amazon.com/Ezy-Dose-Pill-Cutter-Dispenser/dp/B001KYVO78/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=tablet+cutter&qid=1692902762&sr=8-5

just use google...

Without the line even if you split it exactly in the middle it's not guaranteed you get exactly half of the compound. I've got several pill splitters. They wont work for tiny hard pills like pharma arimidex. T4 is even smaller.



But since you guys pointed out it has got a long half life it wouldn't really matter or you could even take it every other day I assume.

 

[CorgisOnTren]

Without the line even if you split it exactly in the middle it's not guaranteed you get exactly half of the compound. I've got several pill splitters. They wont work for tiny hard pills like pharma arimidex. T4 is even smaller.



But since you guys pointed out it has got a long half life it wouldn't really matter or you could even take it every other day I assume.

I split plenty of pills without a line… just push it up to the top of a splitter so it’s right down the middle.

If it’s not perfectly split it’s not the end of the world, especially since you’ll take both pieces of the tablet eventually. Even less of importance with T4 where, as I said, the half life is so long.

 

[bbxtreme]

50 to 75mcg is plenty in this instance. Do tablets over liquid so the dosage is consistent. There are multiple sponsors on here who have T4 in these dosages.

 

[Type-IIx]

I've read through tons of posts about GH and thyroid. Most believed it's necessary to take T4 with high dosed HGH while some didn't (type II I believe). So I thought it would be worth to post my bloods here. My results are on 10-12IUs of optis daily. I've never used thyroid meds.

TSH 4.73 mIU/l (0.40-4.00 mIU/l
fT3 4.57 pmol/l (2.40-6.00 pmol/l)
fT4 9.6 pmol/l (9.0-19.0 pmol/l)

Other labs:
Insulin 5.5 mIU/l (2.0-20.0 mIU/l)
Potassium 5.6 mmol/l (3.5-5.1 mmol/l) - shit. I had to hop on ramipril 10mg a month ago to get my bp in order on a higher test cycle (already was on 80mg telmisartan and 10mg nebivolol).

TSH is high meaning there's not enough thyroid hormone. T4 is almost out of the bottom range. It seems like I need to get on some T4 asap? 200mcg? Thoughts? Would doing GH EOD let my thyroid bounce back while I'm waiting for the T4 to arrive?

This is exactly what is expected, only reductions into the subnormal (<9.0 pmol/L) range indicate pre-existing but previously undetected central hypothyroidism.

The reason for the reduced blood fT4 is increased peripheral conversion of T4 to T3, reflecting enhanced thyroid metabolism. That is to say, the T4 that was floating around in the blood & mostly unused, since T4 is basically inactive by acting as a prohormone to T3, is now being converted to its active form in cells and tissues where it exerts its effects.

 

[trenned]

This is exactly what is expected, only reductions into the subnormal (<9.0 pmol/L) range indicate pre-existing but previously undetected central hypothyroidism.

The reason for the reduced blood fT4 is increased peripheral conversion of T4 to T3, reflecting enhanced thyroid metabolism. That is to say, the T4 that was floating around in the blood & mostly unused, since T4 is basically inactive by acting as a prohormone to T3, is now being converted to its active form in cells and tissues where it exerts its effects.

I think I get it. What was argued in other threads was that T3 would eventually drop down as well since T4 "runs out"? Doesn't seem to be the case (yet).

I received more results today and would really appreciate your input. I have experienced a scary increase in Cystatin C and therefore a drop in eGFR in just 45 which seem to match the increase in HGH dosage. From googling around a bit I was able to find some info on hypothyroidism, high TSH and T4 treatment all affecting cystatin c and creatinine making them possibly unreliable markers in people with thyroid disorders or people who possibly use HGH.

eGFR went from 88 to 64 in 45 days.... Am I running into trouble here? I believe I see a downwards trend as increased the HGH dosage. Beginning of July is when I ramped up the GH dosage to 12 IUs per day. Before that I didn't go over 3-4IUs. Will getting on T4 decrease my cystatin C or do I have to back off everything and go back to the drawing board?

Date	10 months ago	45 days ago	Today
Cystatin C (ref range <1.2 mg/l)	0.93 mg/l	0.98 mg/l	1.25 mg/l
eGFR (CysC, CKD-EPI) (>90 ml)	95.46 ml	88.78 ml	64.23 ml/min/1,73m2
Creatinine (64-111 μmol/l)	89 μmol/l
eGFR (Crea, CKD-EPI)	98.28 ml

 

[Doitagain]

Few months on higher doses. 3-4iu for more than a year before that.



I've got access to 200mcg tabs which don't have a splitting line. If you take too much t4 won't your body just not use it unlike t3? I'm around 114kg. I already have a resting heart rate that is too high so if too much t4 can also make you hyper and increase it further I'd rather go with the lowest dose.

Thanks for the tips. I already take nattokinase, ALA etc in the middle of the night so i can add the t4 to that stack

FYI, for Levothyroxine the typical starting dosage for this use in adults is 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight (mcg/kg), once per day.

One kilogram is equal to about 2.2 pounds (lb) so for example, an adult weighing 114 kg like you (about 250 lbs) may take 180-185 mcg of Synthroid(T4) per day as his starting dosage.

 

[nothuman]

This is exactly what is expected, only reductions into the subnormal (<9.0 pmol/L) range indicate pre-existing but previously undetected central hypothyroidism.

The reason for the reduced blood fT4 is increased peripheral conversion of T4 to T3, reflecting enhanced thyroid metabolism. That is to say, the T4 that was floating around in the blood & mostly unused, since T4 is basically inactive by acting as a prohormone to T3, is now being converted to its active form in cells and tissues where it exerts its effects.

Is TSH supposed to increase when someone takes a high dose of HGH or was his TSH likely already that high?

 

[nothuman]

FYI, for Levothyroxine the typical starting dosage for this use in adults is 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight (mcg/kg), once per day.

One kilogram is equal to about 2.2 pounds (lb) so for example, an adult weighing 114 kg like you (about 250 lbs) may take 180-185 mcg of Synthroid(T4) per day as his starting dosage.

I believe this is the full replacement dosage though. I’m not sure he needs to take a full replacement dose.

I know in my case, taking this amount was too much for me.

 

[Type-IIx]

I think I get it. What was argued in other threads was that T3 would eventually drop down as well since T4 "runs out"? Doesn't seem to be the case (yet).

I received more results today and would really appreciate your input. I have experienced a scary increase in Cystatin C and therefore a drop in eGFR in just 45 which seem to match the increase in HGH dosage. From googling around a bit I was able to find some info on hypothyroidism, high TSH and T4 treatment all affecting cystatin c and creatinine making them possibly unreliable markers in people with thyroid disorders or people who possibly use HGH.

eGFR went from 88 to 64 in 45 days.... Am I running into trouble here? I believe I see a downwards trend as increased the HGH dosage. Beginning of July is when I ramped up the GH dosage to 12 IUs per day. Before that I didn't go over 3-4IUs. Will getting on T4 decrease my cystatin C or do I have to back off everything and go back to the drawing board?

Date	10 months ago	45 days ago	Today
Cystatin C (ref range <1.2 mg/l)	0.93 mg/l	0.98 mg/l	1.25 mg/l
eGFR (CysC, CKD-EPI) (>90 ml)	95.46 ml	88.78 ml	64.23 ml/min/1,73m2
Creatinine (64-111 μmol/l)	89 μmol/l
eGFR (Crea, CKD-EPI)	98.28 ml

I'd need to know a lot more about your base-line bloodwork values, other drugs, training, and rule out any medical condition. I'll be honest bro, it'd be more work than I can give you my time and effort for here to give you proper advice. And I'm not pitching you on shit, while it's the sort of thing I do deal with with clients, I don't think I want take any ProM guys at this time.

Is TSH supposed to increase when someone takes a high dose of HGH or was his TSH likely already that high?

So the high TSH is a reason to not administer Synthroid/Levothyroxine, because the "pull" from GH in cells & tissues to convert f/T4 to active f/T3 is also already getting this "push" on the thyroid from high TSH (in response to reduced blood T4, that does not reflect the increased cell/tissue peripheral activity) to secrete more T4 (reflecting, as mentioned, enhanced thyroid function).

It should also be noted that if exogenous androgen is being used, there are also AAS effects on thyroid function that result in even more peripheral T3 activity. Basically, and this reflects their anabolic potency, thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG) is suppressed by AAS, resulting in decreased total T4 serum levels and increased resin uptake of
T3 & T4.

As you can imagine, all of this increased T3 activity by combined AAS & rhGH is more than sufficient for some additional lipolysis.

Rather than trying to play whack-a-mole with bloodwork values, take the simple tack and just treat symptoms if they even exist.

The symptoms of hypothyroidism to watch for would be:
- dry and scaly skin
- sensitivity to cold
- brittle hair and nails
- slow movements and thoughts
- depression
- Only if not using Clen, muscle cramps may be considered as an additional symptom

There are other symptoms of hypothyroidism; however, they are easily confused with primary effects of rhGH and/or AAS use.

 

[nothuman]

I'd need to know a lot more about your base-line bloodwork values, other drugs, training, and rule out any medical condition. I'll be honest bro, it'd be more work than I can give you my time and effort for here to give you proper advice. And I'm not pitching you on shit, while it's the sort of thing I do deal with with clients, I don't think I want take any ProM guys at this time.

So the high TSH is a reason to not administer Synthroid/Levothyroxine, because the "pull" from GH in cells & tissues to convert f/T4 to active f/T3 is also already getting this "push" on the thyroid from high TSH (in response to reduced blood T4, that does not reflect the increased cell/tissue peripheral activity) to secrete more T4 (reflecting, as mentioned, enhanced thyroid function).

It should also be noted that if exogenous androgen is being used, there are also AAS effects on thyroid function that result in even more peripheral T3 activity. Basically, and this reflects their anabolic potency, thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG) is suppressed by AAS, resulting in decreased total T4 serum levels and increased resin uptake of
T3 & T4.

As you can imagine, all of this increased T3 activity by combined AAS & rhGH is more than sufficient for some additional lipolysis.

Rather than trying to play whack-a-mole with bloodwork values, take the simple tack and just treat symptoms if they even exist.

The symptoms of hypothyroidism to watch for would be:
- dry and scaly skin
- sensitivity to cold
- brittle hair and nails
- slow movements and thoughts
- depression
- Only if not using Clen, muscle cramps may be considered as an additional symptom

There are other symptoms of hypothyroidism; however, they are easily confused with primary effects of rhGH and/or AAS use.

Very interesting, and I agree with the part in bold. I have bad hypothyroid symptoms on a much lower TSH, so I need T4 to feel human. However, I feel worse if I use the wrong dosage, so I learned not to force lab values since blood levels aren't always representative of thyroid health.