Why do people blame insulin for fat gain?

[NorwegianMuscle]

and I am the opposition - myself and my competitors use insulin until the very day of the competition in 90% of cases

Thanks for the debate. How do they use it up to the day of the show? I cut out slin and HGH weeks out from a show to dry out.

 

[luki7788]

Thanks for the debate. How do they use it up to the day of the show? I cut out slin and HGH weeks out from a show to dry out.

depending on how many carbohydrates someone has in their diet, but in 99% of cases the pre-workout insulin lasts until the end - for super-heavy and heavy athletes, usually before and after training because they usually have more carbohydrates in their diet - this is a short window of action, about 6 hours in total, so the remaining 18 hours you have to burn fat, even if insulin blocks it in some way, during the training window I want to maximize anabolism and minimize catabolism

 

[qbkilla]

The more I think about it...do we underrate the importance of insulin sensitivity?

Should it be higher on the priority list than it is
1. Calories and adequate protein
2. Intense training
3. Adequate AAS to grow
4 insulin sensitivity?

When people say ",good genetics" and "bad genetics" forgetting insertions, what is the most factor in what these actually mean? Response to training, gear, p ratio, ability to digest and use calories, doesn't insulin sensitivity determination all these and basically ", genetics for bodybuilding"?

 

[KillerStack]

The more I think about it...do we underrate the importance of insulin sensitivity?

Should it be higher on the priority list than it is
1. Calories and adequate protein
2. Intense training
3. Adequate AAS to grow
4 insulin sensitivity?

When people say ",good genetics" and "bad genetics" forgetting insertions, what is the most factor in what these actually mean? Response to training, gear, p ratio, ability to digest and use calories, doesn't insulin sensitivity determination all these and basically ", genetics for bodybuilding"?

I don't think it's underrated at all, tons of threads here about it with many saying it's the most important factor/consideration in their plans. But then others think AAS is the most important, some say sleep, many say diet, some say growth hormone specifically, some say insulin specifically.

Of course insulin sensitivity is also affected strongly by genetics. But it's also possible to be very insulin insensitive while being a ripped bb. Think about that.

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

and I am the opposition - myself and my competitors use insulin until the very day of the competition in 90% of cases

How many iu's are you running up to your show if you don't mind?

 

[luki7788]

How many iu's are you running up to your show if you don't mind?

you know the answer - it depends lol (as always in bodybuilding)

someone may take 5iu novorapid before training and someone else 10iu before and 10iu after training

since carb load, I had super heavy competitors who needed up to 75iu a day to get full, but usually 15-30iu divided during the day is enough

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

you know the answer - it depends lol (as always in bodybuilding)

someone may take 5iu novorapid before training and someone else 10iu before and 10iu after training

since carb load, I had super heavy competitors who needed up to 75iu a day to get full, but usually 15-30iu divided during the day is enough

I know the answer may vary but I'm talking about what these competitors took up to the day of the show. I took anywhere between 10-20 iu's slin post work out and 10 iu's HGH and even at a point 20 iu's HGH with a 10/10 split during my training. I always cut these compounds out because of side effects at those dosages. Im curious what you or your friends would run up to a show. I'm thinking I might have benefitted by keep these compounds while I dialed in and mistaken them.

 

[luki7788]

I know the answer may vary but I'm talking about what these competitors took up to the day of the show. I took anywhere between 10-20 iu's slin post work out and 10 iu's HGH and even at a point 20 iu's HGH with a 10/10 split during my training. I always cut these compounds out because of side effects at those dosages. Im curious what you or your friends would run up to a show. I'm thinking I might have benefitted by keep these compounds while I dialed in and mistaken them.

it all depends on your shape and how you want to look for the day of the show - if you want to be as dry as possible I will stop taking the GH test and insulin for about 7 days before the competition (then I can also introduce GH the night before the performance in a large dose if you are very dry and e.g. you have made a weight limit and you have a problem with filling it) but if you want to be as full and round as possible I will keep the gh and the test and insulin until the very end

 

[iron lifter]

Man the longer I'm on this board the more amazed I am at the small shit people obsess over, they haven't even mastered step 3 and they are analyzing the shit out of step 12...LMAO

stepping over dollar bills to pick up pennies.

 

[aHarness]

But it's also possible to be very insulin insensitive while being a ripped bb. Think about that.

If someone is very lean and insulin insensitivite I’d imagine something is pretty wrong wrong with their hydration/electrolyte balance, drug choices, or diet structure…

Barring an actual diabetic of course lol

 

[qbkilla]

I don't think it's underrated at all, tons of threads here about it with many saying it's the most important factor/consideration in their plans. But then others think AAS is the most important, some say sleep, many say diet, some say growth hormone specifically, some say insulin specifically.

Of course insulin sensitivity is also affected strongly by genetics. But it's also possible to be very insulin insensitive while being a ripped bb. Think about that.

I'd think the last one... resistance while ripped...that would be the distended palumbo or spider look? Lol. The visceral fat, metabolic syndrome, but low bf.

I agree we accept it's importance and do small things like metformin some carb cycling scale back on gh to improve...but say it was viewed as super important... probably would be less gh use, less carb heavy diets...less accepting of fat gain when bulking. So while people realize it's important...seems like it's only so important and we still view gh usage, high carbs, gaining lbm and accepting fat gain to gain muscle as more important from what it seems... overall

 

[KillerStack]

I'd think the last one... resistance while ripped...that would be the distended palumbo or spider look? Lol. The visceral fat, metabolic syndrome, but low bf.

I agree we accept it's importance and do small things like metformin some carb cycling scale back on gh to improve...but say it was viewed as super important... probably would be less gh use, less carb heavy diets...less accepting of fat gain when bulking. So while people realize it's important...seems like it's only so important and we still view gh usage, high carbs, gaining lbm and accepting fat gain to gain muscle as more important from what it seems... overall

Yes the Palumboism look has been blamed on it and could contribute to it for sure imo. I know Mike Arnold has this opinion. We had a gentleman with gut problems here who was doing like 300iu Lantus a day. Could someone find the thread, wanted to take another look? I tried searching. Ironically now I hear Palumbo is recommending continuous Lantus?

Back in the day it was explained to me that gh could reduce sensitivity more in fat tissue than muscle. Or you trained your muscle into a sensitive state even if overall sensitivity wasn't that good. But this could also help your bodyfat to release fatty acids easier. Stimulants like ephedrine and clen can reduce sensitivity, which some speculated could work to your advantage late in prep to help release the last fat.
It has been said that one theory says insulin resistance is actually a protective mechanism because it reduces dangerous fat gain.

Some said post-contest the body is in a generally very good spot to increase your fat very quickly. Because you are often more sensitive to insulin then. So keeping the gh in in that period makes sense to me even if you take a break from everything else.

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

it all depends on your shape and how you want to look for the day of the show - if you want to be as dry as possible I will stop taking the GH test and insulin for about 7 days before the competition (then I can also introduce GH the night before the performance in a large dose if you are very dry and e.g. you have made a weight limit and you have a problem with filling it) but if you want to be as full and round as possible I will keep the gh and the test and insulin until the very end

Thanks for the input luki

 

[prodaf]

I often see the equation : 1ui insulin = 10g carbs.
This is not a truth at all.

 

[qbkilla]

Yes the Palumboism look has been blamed on it and could contribute to it for sure imo. I know Mike Arnold has this opinion. We had a gentleman with gut problems here who was doing like 300iu Lantus a day. Could someone find the thread, wanted to take another look? I tried searching. Ironically now I hear Palumbo is recommending continuous Lantus?

Back in the day it was explained to me that gh could reduce sensitivity more in fat tissue than muscle. Or you trained your muscle into a sensitive state even if overall sensitivity wasn't that good. But this could also help your bodyfat to release fatty acids easier. Stimulants like ephedrine and clen can reduce sensitivity, which some speculated could work to your advantage late in prep to help release the last fat.
It has been said that one theory says insulin resistance is actually a protective mechanism because it reduces dangerous fat gain.

Some said post-contest the body is in a generally very good spot to increase your fat very quickly. Because you are often more sensitive to insulin then. So keeping the gh in in that period makes sense to me even if you take a break from everything else.

Good points. I've seen many posts about the things we can do to increase insulin sensitivity it seems overall the most important thing is body fat period. That's the big rock. I stay lean year round also use 3 IU gh and 2 g long acting metformin and my a1c is always below reference range so I'm small but one thing I have going I guess is insulin sensitivity. Also do fasted cardio. I believe studies show fasted training also increases insulin sensitivity?

 

[bbxtreme]

it all depends on your shape and how you want to look for the day of the show - if you want to be as dry as possible I will stop taking the GH test and insulin for about 7 days before the competition (then I can also introduce GH the night before the performance in a large dose if you are very dry and e.g. you have made a weight limit and you have a problem with filling it) but if you want to be as full and round as possible I will keep the gh and the test and insulin until the very end

Guys should take note of this. Guys way over complicate things and you just laid it out perfectly.

 

[Type-IIx]

The more I think about it...do we underrate the importance of insulin sensitivity?

Should it be higher on the priority list than it is
1. Calories and adequate protein
2. Intense training
3. Adequate AAS to grow
4 insulin sensitivity?

When people say ",good genetics" and "bad genetics" forgetting insertions, what is the most factor in what these actually mean? Response to training, gear, p ratio, ability to digest and use calories, doesn't insulin sensitivity determination all these and basically ", genetics for bodybuilding"?

FYI: I have submitted an article to MesoRx, to be published on the main site shortly, titled, cumbersomely but true to its completeness on the topics discussed: "GLP-1 and GIP Agonists as Partitioning Agents: Recomp (↑LBM and ↓FM) and Incretins (e.g., GLP-1 and GIP agonists like Semaglutide, Tirzepatide) vs. Insulin (exogenous) – Partitioning (the p-ratio) – Leptin and Insulin Sensitivity – Why Hyperglycemia ≠ Insulin Resistance, and How Incretins Preserve Muscle and Preferentially Reduce Fat Stores (i.e., Serving as Partitioning Agents)" that delves into many of these topics, and ties in the GLP-1 & GIP agonists as a novel drug class that can serve the tasks of promoting insulin sensitivity and partitioning quite well. I'll make sure to get you the link when it's published, if you'd like.