EXPERIMENT!

[b-boy]

I am going out of town this weekend for some much needed rest and relaxation, but when i get back early next week I want to post another thread "advanced size" which touches on something else that DC figured out a long time ago and that has been the emphasis on my offseason this year.

I also want everyone to closely read phil hernon's reply in this thread cause I think it was a really good one that nailed some of my past mistakes right on. You will eventually have to change something cause you just can't keep getting stronger and stronger forever. I am at that crossroad that I had to do something else to stimulate more growth, and i will explain the route that i am trying to take (once again something that DC figured out a long time ago).

 

[VTliftVT]

I am at that crossroad that I had to do something else to stimulate more growth, and i will explain the route that i am trying to take (once again something that DC figured out a long time ago).

great thread and posts b-boy, looking forward to whats up-coming. im especially interested in the above. enjoy your weekend away.

 

[Shelby]

A couple quick observations

- It probably would have been better to look at strength progress.
Just because someone has a bigger bench than you, doesn’t mean they’re going to have a better chest than you. Biomechanics (limb length, etc.) will play a large role in what lifts you are strongest at.
BUT - if they brought up their bench by 200 pounds over the last 3 years, that chest is going to be MUCH better than it was 3 years ago (given that the improvement was the result of STRENGTH improvements, and not improved leverage, technique, equipment, etc.).

- Strength gains won’t equate to size gains if they aren’t bolstered by optimal nutrition. People get stronger in gyms all the time, but have poor eating habits and as such never achieve the hypertrophy gains they are seeking.

 

[Pekkerwood]

Guys, I'm not qualified to post as I've never competed but I just want to state that this thread is so motivational to me. I've can actually feel my adrenaline pumping and that is difficult for me with all the Beta Blockers running through my system.

I miss big lifts. Period. Their is just something about it thats primordial about them. I've been such a "chickensh_t" with my poundages since my heart failure. Congrats to all you guys and props to you all for sharing. I've got some thinking to do about how I approach my training.

 

[Mr.G]

A couple quick observations

- It probably would have been better to look at strength progress.
Just because someone has a bigger bench than you, doesn’t mean they’re going to have a better chest than you. Biomechanics (limb length, etc.) will play a large role in what lifts you are strongest at.
BUT - if they brought up their bench by 200 pounds over the last 3 years, that chest is going to be MUCH better than it was 3 years ago (given that the improvement was the result of STRENGTH improvements, and not improved leverage, technique, equipment, etc.).

- Strength gains won’t equate to size gains if they aren’t bolstered by optimal nutrition. People get stronger in gyms all the time, but have poor eating habits and as such never achieve the hypertrophy gains they are seeking.

I agree with everything here..I would also say bigger is not always better.
Everything in this post is great advise & I would add BB is a thinking mans game, like chess you have to think a few moves ahead to make progress.
I think to attack a lagging body part more pounding is the answer rather than more mgs.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Great point

I agree with everything here..I would also say bigger is not always better.
Everything in this post is great advise & I would add BB is a thinking mans game, like chess you have to think a few moves ahead to make progress.
I think to attack a lagging body part more pounding is the answer rather than more mgs.

I agree on the quote from Shelby and MR G.......although after pounding it for all its worth, MGs must go up to force more protein absorbtion to aid recovery.

 

[Shelby]

3 keys for growth (Kelly Baggett):

A. Stimulation – Training (load, density, volume etc)

B. Supply (nutrient and protein intake)

C. Signaling (anabolic hormones, testosterone, insulin etc.)

Training stimulates growth, eating supplies material for growth, and various hormones signal growth to occur.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Exactly!

3 keys for growth (Kelly Baggett):

A. Stimulation – Training (load, density, volume etc)

B. Supply (nutrient and protein intake)

C. Signaling (anabolic hormones, testosterone, insulin etc.)

Training stimulates growth, eating supplies material for growth, and various hormones signal growth to occur.

And the thing is that any one of these in the circle can jump start gains.....but you need the next step to continue hypertrophy.......if the link breaks you are done.

 

[Ali]

So basically ...

What you guys are saying is growth will occur if poundages go up, as long as nutrition is in check, however even iwth nutrition being on point you will stall on strength and the only way to get past that platuea to contine growth is to add more drugs? The alternative would to eat more, yet that could lead to a physque you may not desire...??

I see my lifts improving gradually, however the size dosen't seem to be coming a long as the strenght improves..but maybe some parts you have shitty genetics for and they won't budge at all??

My chest is what i'm referring to..

 

[Lenny]

What you guys are saying is growth will occur if poundages go up, as long as nutrition is in check, however even iwth nutrition being on point you will stall on strength and the only way to get past that platuea to contine growth is to add more drugs? The alternative would to eat more, yet that could lead to a physque you may not desire...??

I see my lifts improving gradually, however the size dosen't seem to be coming a long as the strenght improves..but maybe some parts you have shitty genetics for and they won't budge at all??

My chest is what i'm referring to..

Yes, it sounds like what they are saying. The chain of stimulation that Shelby/Phil are talking about must keep flowing to increase muscle size and if it is broken or haulted progression towards muscle growth will not increase much. This thread is bringing to surface alot of true knowledge to all of us. Read it and take it in! Good stuff!

 

[chris250]

For the most part it still comes down to genetics, how much muscle your body can hold, how much food your body can process, joints, limbs strengh, how much AAS your body can process, for muscle growth and not for sides, ect,ect...

chris

 

[Ali]

Yes, it sounds like what they are saying. The chain of stimulation that Shelby/Phil are talking about must keep flowing to increase muscle size and if it is broken or haulted progression towards muscle growth will not increase much. This thread is bringing to surface alot of true knowledge to all of us. Read it and take it in! Good stuff!

Well if one decides to not up the doses of hormones, but can get progressively stronger over time..what does that do for them exactly? I mean i see a lot of my friends that get strong as shit but it doesn't transfer over in their physque, mainly due to their poor diet. But someone like me who is getting stronger week to week (small increase) and has nutrition in check and not growing size wise...what does this added strength really do for you except take its toll on your body & joints? Are we saying its not really worth it cuz without the drugs you won't get bigger?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Ali

Well if one decides to not up the doses of hormones, but can get progressively stronger over time..what does that do for them exactly? I mean i see a lot of my friends that get strong as shit but it doesn't transfer over in their physque, mainly due to their poor diet. But someone like me who is getting stronger week to week (small increase) and has nutrition in check and not growing size wise...what does this added strength really do for you except take its toll on your body & joints? Are we saying its not really worth it cuz without the drugs you won't get bigger?

1. When you have plateaued....with your own personal genetics......... you can get stronger over time with added fat yes........but would it not be better to add muscle?
2. To add muscle after a genetic plateau ......and you are doing all you can diet/training wise........you need to add hormones.....period, end of story, all is all and it is what it is.
3. If you add hormones you will be hungrier..........you will eat more...........you will grow muscle and not a lot of fat if at all with a good diet plan.

 

[Lenny]

Well if one decides to not up the doses of hormones, but can get progressively stronger over time..what does that do for them exactly? I mean i see a lot of my friends that get strong as shit but it doesn't transfer over in their physque, mainly due to their poor diet. But someone like me who is getting stronger week to week (small increase) and has nutrition in check and not growing size wise...what does this added strength really do for you except take its toll on your body & joints? Are we saying its not really worth it cuz without the drugs you won't get bigger?

I would say changing the modality of your training, eating more, evaluating your rest/recovery abilities, and genetic structure/potential. I think aches and pains are part of the game with regards to training. Injury is a whole different ball game. That is why we implement having lighter weeks or as Shelby has said before having deload weeks. Imagine if you didn't do what you do, you prolly would not be happy at all with your phsique, at least you are getting stronger and have a physique while many others can't say the same.

It sounds like you are working your ass off and I give a ton of credit bro. Keep it up and make some changes. See what happens from there. Maybe Shelby, Phil, B-Boy, Dante, Magnum, Massive G etc...could chime in and give you better advice.

 

[Shelby]

1. When you have plateaued....with your own personal genetics......... you can get stronger over time with added fat yes........but would it not be better to add muscle?
2. To add muscle after a genetic plateau ......and you are doing all you can diet/training wise........you need to add hormones.....period, end of story, all is all and it is what it is.
3. If you add hormones you will be hungrier..........you will eat more...........you will grow muscle and not a lot of fat if at all with a good diet plan.

Bingo.

Also make sure you're doing movements that work for YOU and target the muscle best. Some people see better results from dips than incline bench, for example.

Subtle changes like grip width, stance, etc. will also make a difference.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

Bingo.

Also make sure you're doing movements that work for YOU and target the muscle best. Some people see better results from dips than incline bench, for example.

Subtle changes like grip width, stance, etc. will also make a difference.

Make your workouts mechanically desireable. A bench press is a bench press but it may be a completely different exercise from one person to another in order to get the desired effects. As Shelby mentioned, limb length, leverage all play a role........

 

[Ali]

1. When you have plateaued....with your own personal genetics......... you can get stronger over time with added fat yes........but would it not be better to add muscle?
2. To add muscle after a genetic plateau ......and you are doing all you can diet/training wise........you need to add hormones.....period, end of story, all is all and it is what it is.
3. If you add hormones you will be hungrier..........you will eat more...........you will grow muscle and not a lot of fat if at all with a good diet plan.

Thanks Phil...the guy tells it how it is..even though the truth hurts sometimes lol

 

[Phidias]

I have to admit that despite having almost given up on them, and in any case not performed this exercise in a long long time, I saw myself doing some incline presses yesterday after reading this thread...

b-boy, man, you have a very bad influence on me. LOL!

 

[maldorf]

Guys, I'm not qualified to post as I've never competed but I just want to state that this thread is so motivational to me. I've can actually feel my adrenaline pumping and that is difficult for me with all the Beta Blockers running through my system.

I miss big lifts. Period. Their is just something about it thats primordial about them. I've been such a "chickensh_t" with my poundages since my heart failure. Congrats to all you guys and props to you all for sharing. I've got some thinking to do about how I approach my training.

Im right there with you since my heart attack. I will never again me able to push the weights I once did, but I can still remember how it used to feel. guess I will just have to be happy with the memories. Last time I pushed myself too hard on squats I went into V Fib and almost died. Guess I didnt know when to quit.

 

[Pekkerwood]

Im right there with you since my heart attack. I will never again me able to push the weights I once did, but I can still remember how it used to feel. guess I will just have to be happy with the memories. Last time I pushed myself too hard on squats I went into V Fib and almost died. Guess I didnt know when to quit.

Thanks for the eyeopener Maldorf. I haven't put over three hundred on a bar in so long I don't know what it looks like.