- Joined
- Sep 3, 2006
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- 3,596
29 men of normal age with normal testosterone levels (not hypogonadal) had their testosterone go up 100 to 304% with clomid usage
Now go have your ng/dl read on testosterone one week after you get off a cycle, think its below 252 ng/dl? NOPE not even close....might even be 3500 ng/dl for alot of guys
Go head and have your ng/dl read on testosterone two weeks after you get off a cyle, think its below 252 ng / dl? NOPE not even close....might be 1000 - 2500 ng / dl for alot of guys
It most likely wont be below 252 ng/dl in the 4th week!
Yet when do 1000's upon 1000's of bodybuilders use clomid? The immediate 2 weeks after they get off cycle...and most bbers use supraphys amounts of AAS.
So much for its because TT is low enough and they must be hypogonadal for clomid to work
So the ester, dose, duration of use, half-life doesnt effect the TT level. As thats your argument?
You have to distinguish between shutdown, inhibition and testicular dysfunction.
When the leydig cells do not get any stimulation (during a course of AAS), the testes become desensitised. Testicular dysfunction kicks in, thats the weak link in HPTA restoration, not the hypothalamus or pituitary.
Take someone on HRT that been shutdown for YEARS, not months or days. They sure as fuck are going to be suffering from testicular dysfunction. Their testes are pretty much unresponsive and need direct stimulation (HCG/HMG).
There is no evidence Clomid or any other SERM will then raise GnRH, LH, FSH and get the testes to secrete testosterone again in that state (on HRT).
Your also arguing using a SERM on cycle will mean less HPTA inhibition. So your telling me using Tamox on cycle (for estrogenic sides) is also going to maintain testicular size and function? Nope. It doesnt. And, if you claim Clomid can, Tamoxifen must also be able to do this phenomenon as its more of an antagonist that Clomid is at bothe the HP and pituitary...
Just because one study states normal, eugondal men get a raise in endo T from Clomid, that doesnt mean it will again raise endo T when shutdown at all. Why? Because of testicular dysfunction.