Anabolic Steroid Abuse and the cardiovascular system

maldorf · May 28, 2011

aphextwin said:
Maldorf,

After everything you have gone through, what advise would you give a person considering AAS for the first time?

I would tell them not to do it, not unless they have the talent and desire to make a living somehow out of bodybuilding. I'm much more cautious now after what happend to me. In the past I would have said go for it! To me it doesnt make any sense using steroids unless you plan on using them the rest of your adult life. Just using them for a few years wont work because once you get off you shrink back down and then youre not happy with where youre at. So to me its a very long commitment to make. Dante made a great post recently about this same subject.

Jugghead · May 31, 2011

maldorf said:
Well, when I went to the hospital the first time I was having the heart attack and Im not really sure what arrythmia I was experiencing. All I know is that I had the blockage and I could barely feel my pulse. My BP was like 65/45 or so. Barely any pulse pressure. I did not pass out though.
The 2nd time I was in a bad tachycardia and actually passed out. Not sure about the atria, but my ventricles they said were starting to go into fib after I passed out. THey then shocked me 2x to get me going right again and then I woke up.

You may have been in supraventricular tachycardia or in atrial fib. Was your heart rate really fast? Reason I was wondering about the a-fib is because if you were in a-fib it probably was the cause of your clot.

The second time you probably were in ventricular tachycardia that progressed to ventricular fibrillation, hence the passing out and the MD having to shock you. V-tach and/or V-fib is the reason for the ICD.

p.s.-do you have to take Plavix or Coumadin?

maldorf · May 31, 2011

Jugghead said:
You may have been in supraventricular tachycardia or in atrial fib. Was your heart rate really fast? Reason I was wondering about the a-fib is because if you were in a-fib it probably was the cause of your clot.

The second time you probably were in ventricular tachycardia that progressed to ventricular fibrillation, hence the passing out and the MD having to shock you. V-tach and/or V-fib is the reason for the ICD.

p.s.-do you have to take Plavix or Coumadin?

The first time when I had the heart attack I had normal heart rhythm and for some reason I got the clot which then brought on the heart problems. I was in fact squating when it happened.
Yeah, the 2nd time I was in V tach and then about to enter V fib.

I found out I have a clotting disorder, and now am on Coumadin for life. I of course dont take the steroids anymore either.

warrior504th · May 31, 2011

You have a disorder that causes clots? You think aas caused you to develop this disorder, or only aggravate it?

Sent from my HTC Inspire

maldorf · May 31, 2011

warrior504th said:
You have a disorder that causes clots? You think aas caused you to develop this disorder, or only aggravate it?

Sent from my HTC Inspire

It is a genetic disease so I inherited it. The AAS aggrevated the condition and made it worse though. Of course nobody in my family ever had it diagnosed and my mother(who turns out to have it) is 72 yrs old and healthy. It was discovered in 1996. Read up on Prothrombin mutation here:
Prothrombin 20210 Mutation (Factor II Mutation) -- Varga and Moll 110 (3): e15 -- Circulation Some others on here have it too. There are other mutations that can cause clotting too, like factor 5.
Here is a table of the risk factors for getting clots. Steroids are a contributing factor and show up on the table as HRT.
**broken link removed**

warrior504th · May 31, 2011

Very interesting and good info. Thank you for that. Interesting that hrt would be listed. Wonder if they're listing only replacement doses close to 100mg, and how much of the results are from shitty synthetic estrogen substitutes. We all know that there have been some problems with those for sure.

Not saying anything here is wrong. Just brain storming while learning. Thread is great, and it definitely sounds like your family had no problems until aas got mixed.

maldorf · Feb 21, 2012

Bump, we just had a case of stroke in one of our memebers and I thought this post might be relevant for discussion now. Oh and we had a heart attack too in the past week.

robertfhub · Feb 22, 2012

Maldorf,
Thanks for posting all the info you do. We are going to be seeing a lot of BIG and healthy bodybuilders in the future!
I am in my forties and have been seriously thinking about my health and mortality. So keep posting. Thanks.

Stewie · Feb 22, 2012

As always very informative threads, thanks Maldorf.

Don't know if this has been posted?
Anabolic steroid abuse: physiological and anaesthetic considerations - Kam - 2005 - Anaesthesia - Wiley Online Library

Michael2 · Feb 22, 2012

Maldorf-- Are you a licensed MD????

maldorf · Feb 22, 2012

Michael2 said:
Maldorf-- Are you a licensed MD????

No, no. Im just an ex high school bio/chem teacher. I took a lot of coursework in college though and was premed and then studies for a masters in exercise physiology where I took some classes at a medical school. Looking back I wish I had put my nose to the grindstone and gone for an MD. I just have a vested interest in heart health now and read a lot on the net and use what I have learned from college.

maldorf · Dec 30, 2012

BUMP

Bump for a good thread with info.

bbg420 · Dec 31, 2012

maldorf said:
Bump for a good thread with info.

agree ,excellent thread needs to be heard

bbg420 · Dec 31, 2012

btw, maldorf do you feel that eq is the worst for clotting problems

maldorf · Jan 1, 2013

bbg420 said:
btw, maldorf do you feel that eq is the worst for clotting problems

I know that a lot of people feel that EQ and deca are the worst, but I cant really say for sure because I was always on multiple steroids. Now in the last year, the year I had my clot, I never once took EQ. During that last year I was doing the following: blast at about 750 mg test and take 250 mg of either deca or tren. When I would cruise I would take about 300 mg/wk test cyp.

Swaglantern · Jan 1, 2013

I hear what you are saying, but (this may or not be true for some) there are uses for aas beyond bodybuilding. I race bikes at a level that requires huge amounts of time in the saddle. It's not unheard of for a competitor to be in the saddle for 6 hours at a time climbing 6-8000 feet of elevation. When I was racing nationally I noticed that as I got older the recovery times increased, and the drive to train at that level became harder so I did a small weekly course of Deca, and Var...we are talking 100mg week, and 25-50mg a day depending on training. I experienced great results. I didn't know a damn thing about PCT, and in hindsight I was shut down pretty good but when winter came around, and I switched to the gym to cross train I came out of it fine. Long story short - there are many a varied reason for AAS use other the building of muscle....in some parts of the world Deca is prescribed for osteoporosis. So when someone posts - use versus abuse....it's hard to know what you mean... Now that I'm going to race Masters class, I'm gearing up for another season with AAS - if anything so I can at least enjoy the brutality..

maldorf said:
I would tell them not to do it, not unless they have the talent and desire to make a living somehow out of bodybuilding. I'm much more cautious now after what happend to me. In the past I would have said go for it! To me it doesnt make any sense using steroids unless you plan on using them the rest of your adult life. Just using them for a few years wont work because once you get off you shrink back down and then youre not happy with where youre at. So to me its a very long commitment to make. Dante made a great post recently about this same subject.

maldorf · Jan 1, 2013

True, there can be uses other than bodybuilding. The question you are going to have to face is are you using the drugs properly or are you abusing them? Keep a close eye on your blood work and don't continue doing things if your blood work comes back bad. Whether you want to admit it or not, the use you are doing now can have consequences for you down the road. I guess you have determined that for you the risk is worth the reward. Just be careful.

I do think your sport is much healthier than bodybuilding for longevity. You are surely keeping your heart very healthy and your weight way down if youre a serious cyclist. I got into cycling a long time ago when I was in high school and I should have stuck with it! I think its a great sport. Finding safe places to ride these days is hard though! A neighbor down the street is a real serious cyclist and is about 55 yrs old. He rides between 50-100 miles a day usually and averages a speed pretty high (20-25 mph). A year ago or so he bought a real nice bike, had the frame built to his specifications because he has really long limbs. Expensive hobby! I think just the frame cost about $6500.

Swaglantern said:
I hear what you are saying, but (this may or not be true for some) there are uses for aas beyond bodybuilding. I race bikes at a level that requires huge amounts of time in the saddle. It's not unheard of for a competitor to be in the saddle for 6 hours at a time climbing 6-8000 feet of elevation. When I was racing nationally I noticed that as I got older the recovery times increased, and the drive to train at that level became harder so I did a small weekly course of Deca, and Var...we are talking 100mg week, and 25-50mg a day depending on training. I experienced great results. I didn't know a damn thing about PCT, and in hindsight I was shut down pretty good but when winter came around, and I switched to the gym to cross train I came out of it fine. Long story short - there are many a varied reason for AAS use other the building of muscle....in some parts of the world Deca is prescribed for osteoporosis. So when someone posts - use versus abuse....it's hard to know what you mean... Now that I'm going to race Masters class, I'm gearing up for another season with AAS - if anything so I can at least enjoy the brutality..

maldorf · Jun 11, 2013

Bump, for new guys to see

Thought I would bump this article I found. I haven't bought the full paper, but there looks to be a link there that allows you to.

This lays out the risk factors on the heart and mentions the clotting cascade that gave me my blood clot and nearly killed me.

Hollow · Jun 12, 2013

maldorf said:
Thought I would bump this article I found. I haven't bought the full paper, but there looks to be a link there that allows you to.

This lays out the risk factors on the heart and mentions the clotting cascade that gave me my blood clot and nearly killed me.

Been reading through this thread and the links, scary information. I do wish someone would write a dumbed down version for some of these articles, as sometimes I'm constantly having to look up words.

Although I do find myself saying something like exogenous when I type, when in reality I could just say outside. Anyway main point is reading this thread scared the crap out of me. Only medical issue I have for sure is that sleep apnea thing (which does scare me). My family doesn't have a history of any major medical problems but the possibility of something being undiagnosed is scary. Then with the human body being so complex no telling what underlying issue can creep up and wreck havoc.