Another boring DNP LOG

[Conciliator]

I am actually going to do 28 days of Insuling/DNP as outlined by L.Rea when I get back from vacation good luck bro I hope this cycle helps in everyway it's intended.

I don't want to hijack his thread but it retards the insulin molecule so it will not store in fat cells. It causes more stable blood sugar as to not cause hypoglycemia so easily. I can start a new thread with the chapter in it and get discussion going as I don't know the answers but we have some smart people around here to better educate myself as that is what I'm looking for cuz I'm a newbie as far as dnp/insulin

Author L. Rea is not very bright and definitely not a good person to take advice from. When he talks about DNP in absolute terms ("it makes the process only about 40% efficient", "it doubles glucose uptake") it makes me cringe. It also makes me think he doesn't understand what he's talking about.

Maybe he should mention that the insulin independant glucose uptake seen with DNP is due to AMPK activation... the same enzyme that downregulates mTOR and shuts off protein synthesis. DNP will oppose the anabolic effects of insulin. And as we know, insulin will inhibit lipolysis.

I think the best part of Rea's whole article is when he cites the abstract from this study and then totally misinterprets it. He concludes that "DNP aids in inducing an environment of insulin resistance in adipose sites thus decreasing the ability for fat cells to get food." Umm, no, that's not what the study said at all. The whole point of the study was that DNP did NOT induce insulin resistance like glucosamine does, desite the fact that both lower the ATP content in cells. Thus, the insulin resistance seen with glucosamine is not due to ATP depletion, but something else.

He obviously never took a look at the full text, where right in the introduction they say "For study, we employed sodium azide (NaN3) and dinitrophenol (DNP), which affect mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation and subsequently lower cellular ATP content. We failed to induce insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes with NaN3 and DNP." It seems Rea might want to be sure about what he's reading before putting it into a book. He said the study found exactly the opposite of what it actually did find. And then he makes recommendations based on it. That's pretty bad. Rea's ability to interpret research appears to be very poor.

In my opinion, you're not only going to get the anabolic properties of insulin and the fat-loss properties of DNP. You're also going to get the anti-lipolytic properties of insulin and the anti-anabolic properties of DNP. I think the combination is completely unsupported at best and stupid at worst.

 

[Conciliator]

I was thinking this because the crystal is faster acting then powder..

Crystal DNP is not faster acting. It's simply DNP attached to a sodium salt. When you ingest crystal DNP, the sodium salt is cleaved, leaving you the exact same base as powder DNP. In some of the earliest human research on DNP, Cutting and Tainter explained that after accounting for the dose equivalency, the "two forms are therapeutically indistinguishable as would be expected."

While powder DNP is essentially 100% DNP, crystal DNP is 75% DNP and 25% sodium. In other words, 100mg crystal DNP is equivalent to 75mg of powder DNP (it takes less powder for the same effect). Many people report having fewer side effects on the same dose of crystal DNP. This is because they're ingesting less actual DNP. They'll also have reduced fat loss and a reduced increase in metabolic rate.

and since you really want DNP to burn the calories you eat and fat.. would it not be better to try and take it throughout the day and not right before bed? Cause what is it doing when your sleeping? Ur body doesnt have any food in it during the night. Thanks for any help?

DNP can (and will) burn bodyfat while you're sleeping.

 

[Conciliator]

Bro,, even if you get a temp of greater than 100 or even 101,,, dont sweat it..(literally),, this is expected with DNP..

A body temperature in the 100s or 101s is only expected if you're on your way to overdosing on DNP. Your temperature should not be that high. It should be in the normal range. Otherwise, it means you're taking a dose that's producing more heat than your body can dissipate. With a further increase in the dose (or the same dose accumulating), things can get out of hand pretty quickly at that point.

 

[Conciliator]

I got factual info for you, it can kill you! Point blank. I didn't read all the other posts, but I have taken DNP. That shit really doesn't have a place for us. I puked up blood for 2 days because of that. Stopped and things went back to normal. And I was only doing 200mg total, 100mgs am and 100mgs pm. I know what it does first hand and its in your best interest to get on a better diet, hit some core lifts and go from there.
I'm not bashing you, but have ben at this along time and its no good bro

After reading hundreds of pages from the original studies on DNP, dozens and dozens of case reports on side effects, the extensive ATSDR's toxicological report on nitrophenols, and several modern reviews on DNP, I have NOT ONCE seen anything said about bleeding in the stomach or coughing up blood. I think you're either lying, were mistaken about the cause of the bleeding, or had an extremely idiosyncratic reaction.

Coughing up blood is NOT a side effect from taking DNP. There are definitely risks to consider before taking DNP. But that's not one of them.

 

[Conciliator]

There is a new paperback called Illegally Thin, all about DNP. Google it; I just started reading it, very interesting stuff.

Before anyone buys that book, they should listen to the interview with the author on Heavy Muscle Radio from 6-1-09: http://www.rxmuscle.com/hmr-radio-show.html

In short, the author was misinformed about all sorts of things. He didn't even know how to pronounce "dinitrophenol." I wrote up a critique of the interview over on the RxMusvle forum (link below). I think it's pretty clear the guy was unqualified to write a book on the topic: http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=287231#post287231

 

[deadandgone]

Thanks for stopping by Conciliator! I followed your post all over the damn internet and finally over to lyles board. Great info you put out there man. It pushed me over to the dark side and its made all the difference in my life. I used your name probably 10 times in this thread for the people that posted stupid crap but i doubt they did any research on their own.

I did my best keeping the "DNP is used to kill babies in space" talk down..


202.5 today!! Ive lost 5 freaking inches off my waist and im still holding a good bit of water..5 more days

 

[dcbliever]

Author L. Rea is not very bright and definitely not a good person to take advice from. When he talks about DNP in absolute terms ("it makes the process only about 40% efficient", "it doubles glucose uptake") it makes me cringe. It also makes me think he doesn't understand what he's talking about.

Maybe he should mention that the insulin independant glucose uptake seen with DNP is due to AMPK activation... the same enzyme that downregulates mTOR and shuts off protein synthesis. DNP will oppose the anabolic effects of insulin. And as we know, insulin will inhibit lipolysis.

I think the best part of Rea's whole article is when he cites the abstract from this study and then totally misinterprets it. He concludes that "DNP aids in inducing an environment of insulin resistance in adipose sites thus decreasing the ability for fat cells to get food." Umm, no, that's not what the study said at all. The whole point of the study was that DNP did NOT induce insulin resistance like glucosamine does, desite the fact that both lower the ATP content in cells. Thus, the insulin resistance seen with glucosamine is not due to ATP depletion, but something else.

He obviously never took a look at the full text, where right in the introduction they say "For study, we employed sodium azide (NaN3) and dinitrophenol (DNP), which affect mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation and subsequently lower cellular ATP content. We failed to induce insulin resistance in 3T3-L1 adipocytes with NaN3 and DNP." It seems Rea might want to be sure about what he's reading before putting it into a book. He said the study found exactly the opposite of what it actually did find. And then he makes recommendations based on it. That's pretty bad. Rea's ability to interpret research appears to be very poor.

In my opinion, you're not only going to get the anabolic properties of insulin and the fat-loss properties of DNP. You're also going to get the anti-lipolytic properties of insulin and the anti-anabolic properties of DNP. I think the combination is completely unsupported at best and stupid at worst.

Thank You, that is why I posted it so someone with your intelligence could break it down. Thank you again.

 

[Thewhite9t]

While powder DNP is essentially 100% DNP, crystal DNP is 75% DNP and 25% sodium. In other words, 100mg crystal DNP is equivalent to 75mg of powder DNP (it takes less powder for the same effect). Many people report having fewer side effects on the same dose of crystal DNP. This is because they're ingesting less actual DNP. They'll also have reduced fat loss and a reduced increase in metabolic rate.


I thought that 100% DNP would explode in transit? As I know.... most powder DNP is roughly 15%-25% moisture.

I know you're a very strict advocate of powder, but I just don't understand how it could be 100% pure DNP like you say. Wouldn't it be more of a solid, dried out block?

 

[deadandgone]

I dont think its possible to remove all the water in it without the use of a hygroscopic substance like magnesium sulfate or something. Even if laid out to dry its still going to absorb water from humidity i would assume.

I really dont know but thats a good question.

 

[Conciliator]

I thought that 100% DNP would explode in transit? As I know.... most powder DNP is roughly 15%-25% moisture.

I know you're a very strict advocate of powder, but I just don't understand how it could be 100% pure DNP like you say. Wouldn't it be more of a solid, dried out block?

DNP is explosive, but based on books like this, it appears that it has relatively low sensitivity, high stability, and a high activation energy (as a secondary explosive). It's not especially dangerous to handle. I know in one of the lesser known DNP guides, there was a guy who dried a small amount and then smashed it with a hammer repeatedly. He couldn't get it to explode.

I've capped powder DNP before. You dry it, you go over it in a plastic bag with something like a spoon to break up any clumps, and you're left with a fine, dry, powder that's essentially all DNP. When DNP comes from chemical manufacturers, it has to be shipped wet, but it always gets dried before capping.

This reminds me of a guy named SupaDJDiesel over on bb.com. He argued that "DNP is so caustic it eats through gelatin capsules," lol. The guy capped wet DNP and didn't realize the water was dissolving his caps, lol.

 

[Conciliator]

I dont think its possible to remove all the water in it without the use of a hygroscopic substance like magnesium sulfate or something. Even if laid out to dry its still going to absorb water from humidity i would assume.

You can remove most of the water by placing DNP in the sun in a dry environment and/or putting it in a sealed bag with some silica gel.

 

[GoneForever]

Post up some follow up pics. I still fail to realize how a major rebound effect isnt possible. Lets say your eating a 3k cal diet and making slow progress. Then you add in a 2wk dnp cycle and drop 12lbs. How are you gonna be able to continue to diet off that same diet you were doing before you started dnp. Wouldnt you need even less cals and how would you even know what to do to continue dieting without gaining fat back once your metabolsim goes back to normal.

Also, i've never heard that your supposed to maintain a normal body temp. I thought DNP always increases body temp,ie feeling hot all the time. I thought 100degrees was normal, and anything over 103 was of concern.

 

[deadandgone]

Ill have some pics up on tuesday for ya man. Day 21 the last day!

People that say you get a temp over 100 are crazy and on WAY to much DNP. In the human trials a high temperature was the best sign of impending toxicity. There is a whole science behind it which im sure Conciliator might post for the 100th time but when im the most hot and sweaty my body temp is usually around 95.5-96.5

 

[deadandgone]

as far as the rebound, guess we will see in a couple weeks. I know you still lose weight as the water is coming off. After that...time will tell.

 

[GoneForever]

Ill have some pics up on tuesday for ya man. Day 21 the last day!

People that say you get a temp over 100 are crazy and on WAY to much DNP. In the human trials a high temperature was the best sign of impending toxicity. There is a whole science behind it which im sure Conciliator might post for the 100th time but when im the most hot and sweaty my body temp is usually around 95.5-96.5

Weird that your on DNP yet still have a lower body temp than normal. Thats sometimes a sign of low thyroid output. Maybe get it checked?

 

[Conciliator]

Weird that your on DNP yet still have a lower body temp than normal. Thats sometimes a sign of low thyroid output. Maybe get it checked?

That's actually pretty common on a low dose of DNP. The body seems to overcompensate with cooling so you end up having a body temperature that's even lower than normal, despite the heat being produced.

Feeling hot and and having an elevated body temperature are two different things.

 

[Snipersteve]

looking forward to ur pics

 

[gelatine]

Weird that your on DNP yet still have a lower body temp than normal. Thats sometimes a sign of low thyroid output. Maybe get it checked?

I imagine for longer DNP cycles without t3 supplementation, that would be normal, since it's competing with the t3, right? So you have lowered temperature from low t3, and no further effect from a low DNP dose. Matches with my experience too, anyway.

 

[Conciliator]

I imagine for longer DNP cycles without t3 supplementation, that would be normal, since it's competing with the t3, right? So you have lowered temperature from low t3, and no further effect from a low DNP dose. Matches with my experience too, anyway.

A common myth is that DNP shuts down the thyroid. AAS and DNP have a similar effect on thyroid levels, through a similar mechanism of action. While androgens reduce the concentration of thyroid binding globulin (TBG), DNP occupies thyroid binding proteins, which has the same effect... less protein to bind to thyroid. This may initially result in higher serum levels and accelerated clearance, but after a short term perturbation in thyroid function a new steady state is soon reached in which thyroid function is normal, despite potentially reduced serum levels of total T4 and total T3. As one paper on DNP explained, "this action could lower the total hormone concentration in serum but should have no persistent effect on thyroid function". This means that even though the level of thyroid hormones in the blood can be lower than normal, thyroid function will still be normal.

There's a case study that's often posted as evidence for thyroid dysfunction, but I'm of the opinion that the bodybuilders in question had low thyroid levels not because of the DNP, but because they were taking T3 during their cycle. Exogenous T3 definitely will suppress endogenous production. I had a Norwegian translate the paper and it was unclear why they had low thyroid levels. They didn't test for reverse thyroid when they could have, which would have made the cause clearer.

I also have a friend who's a doctor of internal medicine who ran 600mg/day of crystal DNP for 3-4 months (went from 320 lbs down to the mid 200's). He gave himself frequent blood tests and said his thyroid didn't budge. I've heard feedback from other DNP users who did bloodwork showing the same thing. I'm just not convinced that DNP does much of anything to thyroid levels. Supplemental thyroid is notoriously catabolic. I think it's generally best to just leave it alone.

 

[The big guy]

That's actually pretty common on a low dose of DNP. The body seems to overcompensate with cooling so end up having a body temperature that's even lower than normal, despite the heat being produced.

Feeling hot and and having an elevated body temperature are two different things.

Nice to know, my temp is below normal and was kinda wondering why.