Calories on a Cut. I cannot comprehend it. Big Guys Help me Out.

[omoplata]

I think that @Flex500 and @bbxtreme wrote everything and I don't think there is anything more to add here - I can only write that during the preparations I very rarely went down to 4000 kcal a day, and if I did, it lasted for literally a few days and I had to increase the calories again because I was losing not only fat but also muscles - I was usually stage ready eating 4,500 calories a day

and yes - large doses of hormones will certainly speed up the metabolism, especially strong androgens

I mean hoooolllly fuck. Stage ready on 4.500 kcal a day ?!?!!!!!!

It would be rude to ask you to detail your activity level but can you give a very brief idea about how many sessions of weights and cardio you did per week? Also, any guess how many calories you were burning through all physical activity over the course of an average day?

 

[luki7788]

I mean hoooolllly fuck. Stage ready on 4.500 kcal a day ?!?!!!!!!

It would be rude to ask you to detail your activity level but can you give a very brief idea about how many sessions of weights and cardio you did per week? Also, any guess how many calories you were burning through all physical activity over the course of an average day?

I have no idea lol - but my activity at that time was not high - from what I remember I ate 500g of protein and 500g of carbohydrates, I did max 40 minutes of cardio 6x a week but I quickly had to limit it because I was ready 4 weeks before and I lost a lot of fullness for the next 4 weeks even though I had to refeed about 900-1000g of carbs every 7 days

And activity during the day was very low at that time, but my gym workouts were always long and hard, never shorter than 2 hours, heavy weights, high volume


But that's nothing - Roman Fritz eats 1000g of carbohydrates and 500g protein every day during the entire preparations, but he doesn't gain a single gram of fat during the offseason, he only holds on to water.

 

[Hyper-T]

People lie about how much they are eating. Men and women. Having been around elite athletes my whole life I've sat and eaten hundreds of times with Olympic athletes. They don't eat much and certainly don't have slow metabolism. T3 is very powerful and for some me included there is no amount of food I could physically eat and not wake up lighter tomorrow. Remember Arnold didn't eat 4000 kcals on average per day at any time in his preparations. Some of the ladies from the 80's will admit to going down to around 800kcals per day in prep, now you have bikini girls who will claim they eat 2800 a day an weigh 126lbs. Many, many of the bigger bodybuilders I have known sit and pick at there food as the stomach is so messed up. The gear works both ways, yes you have higher metabolism so can eat more calories and not be as fat as you would be, but also they allow you to be far bigger than you would be eating nowhere near enough calories.

 

[Yousef12O2]

I have no idea lol - but my activity at that time was not high - from what I remember I ate 500g of protein and 500g of carbohydrates, I did max 40 minutes of cardio 6x a week but I quickly had to limit it because I was ready 4 weeks before and I lost a lot of fullness for the next 4 weeks even though I had to refeed about 900-1000g of carbs every 7 days

And activity during the day was very low at that time, but my gym workouts were always long and hard, never shorter than 2 hours, heavy weights, high volume


But that's nothing - Roman Fritz eats 1000g of carbohydrates and 500g protein every day during the entire preparations, but he doesn't gain a single gram of fat during the offseason, he only holds on to water.

lol i wonder how many calories he has to eat to gain weight in the offseason

 

[luki7788]

lol i wonder how many calories he has to eat to gain weight in the offseason

the same - he eats at least 1000 g of carbohydrates and 500 g of protein a day, and if he can manage it, he eats more 1200-1300g
His carb load is 2000g of carbs per day - I mark it daily for several days in a row

 

[Yousef12O2]

but watching recent show he did the last couple of months he was outsized by other competitors around his height... what does he have to do in order to put on size because it seems no matter how much he eats he doesn't gain much weight. was just looking at a video of him from 2 years ago and i don't think he added much muscle to his frame

 

[omoplata]

Thanks a lot Luki
Really appreciate you chiming in
and the other guys here too... totally appreciate it

 

[omoplata]

People lie about how much they are eating. Men and women. Having been around elite athletes my whole life I've sat and eaten hundreds of times with Olympic athletes. They don't eat much and certainly don't have slow metabolism. T3 is very powerful and for some me included there is no amount of food I could physically eat and not wake up lighter tomorrow. Remember Arnold didn't eat 4000 kcals on average per day at any time in his preparations. Some of the ladies from the 80's will admit to going down to around 800kcals per day in prep, now you have bikini girls who will claim they eat 2800 a day an weigh 126lbs. Many, many of the bigger bodybuilders I have known sit and pick at there food as the stomach is so messed up. The gear works both ways, yes you have higher metabolism so can eat more calories and not be as fat as you would be, but also they allow you to be far bigger than you would be eating nowhere near enough calories.

This guy put it so well
Exactly... Been around and ate with athletes for so long. And 95% of athletes in various sports do not eat as much as people want to believe.
And now you got bodybuilders and figure dudes and gals claiming to eat twice as much as you'd expect

 

[luki7788]

but watching recent show he did the last couple of months he was outsized by other competitors around his height... what does he have to do in order to put on size because it seems no matter how much he eats he doesn't gain much weight. was just looking at a video of him from 2 years ago and i don't think he added much muscle to his frame

Roman is eat very low in fat and he trains twice a day, so with this way of eating and training, it is not possible to increase muscle mass too much - besides, he has been bodybuilding for almost 20 years and has already maxed out his body

 

[btmayor]

I've wondered the same because I look fatter when on lower try compared to when I am on 400mg test. I think part of it is my fault not getting enough protein while dieting but the visual difference is insane and it goes away in a week when I go on 400mg test.

I think it's partially glycogen storage that helps. Not only having more muscle mass but also my body, at least, can push more glycogen into my muscles while on 400mg test. It's too the point I look like I carry a lot less fat than if I was dieting. I actually look thinner bulking than dieting a lot of the time unless I cheat. Also I can train harder and more frequently. It may not sound a lot but even one extra weight workout a week adds up but it doesn't complete the picture.

I bet it's a combination of we need to be a little more stringent about protein consumption and training then you can add in all the other factors.

 

[bbxtreme]

This guy put it so well
Exactly... Been around and ate with athletes for so long. And 95% of athletes in various sports do not eat as much as people want to believe.
And now you got bodybuilders and figure dudes and gals claiming to eat twice as much as you'd expect

I wish I was lying about how much food I ate. I’m one of those guys who doesn’t enjoy eating. So to be eating 3k calories 3.5 weeks out from a show isn’t fun for me. LOL

But remember our goal as bodybuilders is to “maximize muscle”.

Other athletes eat to “optimize performance”.

The average person just eats to try and not get fat, yet usually is.

I’m not an outlier, I’ve spend 5 years building my metabolism and set point to this. It’s a unique sport.

 

[pesty4077]

I wish I was lying about how much food I ate. I’m one of those guys who doesn’t enjoy eating. So to be eating 3k calories 3.5 weeks out from a show isn’t fun for me. LOL

But remember our goal as bodybuilders is to “maximize muscle”.

Other athletes eat to “optimize performance”.

The average person just eats to try and not get fat, yet usually is.

I’m not an outlier, I’ve spend 5 years building my metabolism and set point to this. It’s a unique sport.

He should look into how many calories Michael Phelps would eat for competitions.

 

[Virtuous]

This guy put it so well
Exactly... Been around and ate with athletes for so long. And 95% of athletes in various sports do not eat as much as people want to believe.
And now you got bodybuilders and figure dudes and gals claiming to eat twice as much as you'd expect

I’m not lying about needing 4k to not lose weight . Eating 5k to gain slowly is not fun. I’ve put on 5 lbs in 8 weeks eating 5k. There’s nothing impressive or sexy about it.

I could throttle my activity level way back, but that’d be counter to my goals/enjoyment of life.

If counter that fitness/bodybuilder types are some of the few actually tracking intake closely. Even athletes are notoriously bad at that. Most people lowball their intake by 25-50%.

 

[Parabolic33]

I’ve been at this since January 2022.

First cut was July-October that year. Then did a rebound till end of november, cruised till January 2023.

Then I really started ramping up the food to try and grow. And my food intake is now much higher to start for my second cut. Yes my total muscle is higher, but I also think it has something to do with the fact I’ve gotten my metabolism up from trying to grow and push food so hard.

I have only 4 days per week to train temporarily right now unfortunately sunday-Wednesday, but they are long 2hr 15 minute sessions so I can hit every muscle twice per week still. I have to do an upper body(minus shoulders) /lower body ( plus shoulders) split to accomplish that.

On those training days, I’m consuming 3300-3700 calories and still getting a deficit of about -700 to -1000 calories on those days. While it’s impossible to be that exact to know my exact deficit, I look to be about where I expect progress wise for being 6 weeks into cutting.

Off days I walk 18k steps and work in a mall, so it’s perfect for not being fatigued but still expending energy. Those days I consume 2400-2800 calories.

Last year, I was cutting on these same approximate calories on training days, but was making much slower fat loss progress and was in less of a deficit.


TLDR: doing growing and cutting phases back to back absolutely are the basis for this increasing metabolic rate. Even when muscle mass is the same, somebody can get their metabolism up.

If I’m ever coaching somebody who wants to cut, and they haven’t been very very active, I am actually going to increasing their calories over the maintenance they had when they came to me. I’ll going to Hold them at their new higher calorie level for some time and get their metabolism up before going into the actual deficit part of the cutting.

If they want to get actually ripped, not just lean out some then plateau at 1800 calories it’s going to give a much greater success rate pushing their metabolism up first so there is greater room to pull calories down, and more room to add in energy to burn via cardio/training. Even something like adding in neglected muscle groups people neglect training to increase energy expenditure is useful before adding in more/longer cardio sessions. Train abs more, calves more, hell-forearms even. Forearms won’t burn much, but at least that’s an extra 15 minutes somebody could spend being active with an elevated heart rate.

As for all the biological mechanisms behind this, there are tons, but many of them not completely understood( At least not completely understood by me), but this effect is noticeable and very real.