Can Any One Here Say that Going Beyond Failure has Actually Helped Him Build More Muscle?

[Biggerp73]

I never said 2 working sets..I said beyond failure..

As far as overtraining? Brother, I lift daily, run daily, swim daily, surf 3x a week, and run, fight, and train for work almost daily..I’ve had rabdo a handful of times…I 100% do not believe overtraining is even legitimately possible in bodybuilding

And don’t use Dorian as an example..nobody here, nor anyone you or I know is dorian

I would bet you look exactly like you train. Very athletic. Maybe even "muscular." But not anything like a true open class bodybuilder.

 

[Biggerp73]

Forced reps with spotters

You don't need spotters. On arms you can use the other arms to assist during the positive. On bigger muscles you can do things like load up the smith with more than you can handle, untrack it, and just do the negative portion. Or the easiest thing to do is push to failure then drop the weight and do it again without any rest.

But in all honesty the vast majority of guys in the gym don't even know what true failure looks like or how to achieve it. They go based on feel and pain rather than rep duration and slowly grinding to a halt over the course of several reps which get slower and slower as you try to move the weight as fast as possible.

 

[buck]

As a general rule i would say digging a deeper hole really doesn't help fill in the hole. Once your body thinks it is in it's best interest to grow muscle it will it it can. If people start using more advanced training to make sets go longer and add more food and drugs saying the sets caused it is a guess. I trained for 20 years with weights before crossing over. And i can say virtually ever pound gained was with basic over loading. Once i added gear i got stronger and much bigger even though i did not eat more calories or more protein. And most of that muscle was with failure training. Doing the least amount of work to grow muscle seems the most productive to me. Especially from a longevity stand point.

 

[emeric delczeg]

I do even now at age 70, on every body part, every day.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Example.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=323401629595000

 

[emeric delczeg]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=769401773987363

 

[fisther69]

I would bet you look exactly like you train. Very athletic. Maybe even "muscular." But not anything like a true open class bodybuilder.

Hell no I don’t look like an open class bodybuilder! Maybe 2-3 guys here do though lol

Those guys are on absolute ragged edge

 

[fisther69]

You don't need spotters. On arms you can use the other arms to assist during the positive. On bigger muscles you can do things like load up the smith with more than you can handle, untrack it, and just do the negative portion. Or the easiest thing to do is push to failure then drop the weight and do it again without any rest.

But in all honesty the vast majority of guys in the gym don't even know what true failure looks like or how to achieve it. They go based on feel and pain rather than rep duration and slowly grinding to a halt over the course of several reps which get slower and slower as you try to move the weight as fast as possible.

Nah, most guys get caught up on the number of reps..you have to lose count or you will always stop waaay short

 

[Biggerp73]

Example.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=323401629595000

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=769401773987363

All the respect in the world for what you've accomplished and maintained with your body over your lifespan brother but you just gave us all a good example of what I was talking about here

But in all honesty the vast majority of guys in the gym don't even know what true failure looks like or how to achieve it. They go based on feel and pain rather than rep duration and slowly grinding to a halt over the course of several reps which get slower and slower as you try to move the weight as fast as possible.

Emeric neither of those videos show you reaching failure, let alone going past it.

 

[emeric delczeg]

All the respect in the world for what you've accomplished and maintained with your body over your lifespan brother but you just gave us all a good example of what I was talking about here



Emeric neither of those videos show you reaching failure, let alone going past it.

You are correct is more then failure, when I reach the failure I continuing with negative or ( variable resistant).

 

[emeric delczeg]

All the respect in the world for what you've accomplished and maintained with your body over your lifespan brother but you just gave us all a good example of what I was talking about here



Emeric neither of those videos show you reaching failure, let alone going past it.

I recommend highly to incorporate jumping in workout, especially if you over 50.
Jumping can make you feel young and increase longevity. You would be better protected from common age-related diseases such as cognitive decline, frequent falls, injuries, stress, and digestive problems. It also minimizes conditions associated with weight gain, such as diabetes mellitus, hypertension, heart disease, and stroke. In addition, it lowers the risk of certain cancers and keeps inflammatory conditions in check.

https://www.facebook.com/emeric.delczeg/videos/3588366731390747

 

[Biggerp73]

You are correct is more then failure, when I reach the failure I continuing with negative or ( variable resistant).

You never even reached failure.

Check at the rep speed for every rep.

If you were actually near failure, you wouldn't be able to move the weight at the speed you move it.

You alternate between struggling to move the weight at all, to all the sudden digging deeper and busting out a rep at a very quick speed, and then quitting after doing the rep that was fast.

The speed at which the rep was performs indicates the muscle could have done the same weight another time at a slightly slower speed, and another time after that at an even slightly slower speed, etc, until you reach a truly grinding rep that takes several slow seconds to complete.

That's failure. You never reached it. You simply quit when you "felt" you were done. Its all right there on tape.

 

[emeric delczeg]

You never even reached failure.

Check at the rep speed for every rep.

If you were actually near failure, you wouldn't be able to move the weight at the speed you move it.

You alternate between struggling to move the weight at all, to all the sudden digging deeper and busting out a rep at a very quick speed, and then quitting after doing the rep that was fast.

The speed at which the rep was performs indicates the muscle could have done the same weight another time at a slightly slower speed, and another time after that at an even slightly slower speed, etc, until you reach a truly grinding rep that takes several slow seconds to complete.

That's failure. You never reached it. You simply quit when you "felt" you were done. Its all right there on tape.

Try it then talk.

 

[FK86]

Absolutely , I trained pretty hard from highschool into my mid 20's , starting gear in my early 20's and progress was decent.
When I started DC training i saw a noticable increase in size and strength. Once a start learning more about bodybuilding nutrition they got even better.
I've seen a lot of people make big significant jump in size when moving to a progressive overload training like DC , Fortitude or some of the Meadows programs.

Were you logging before DC? Also, are you sure it was the rest-pause and not the better programming and added recovery? I remember Dante saying most guys he trained had been on a 5-7 day split and getting them to train three days a week was the hardest thing for him to do but also the most effective.

 

[FK86]

@emeric delczeg this is what a set to failure looks like.

Scott Stevenson (@fortitude_training): First things first. Cake befor instagram post download - imgsed.com

First things first. Cake before the icing. Big stones before the little ones… • In an advanced / intermediate lifter, training efforts must be extraordinary to create a (novel) hypertrophic stimulus (and perhaps even maintain gains). This holds for when training with a reps in reserve strategy...

imgsed.com

 

[dsteelo455]

how many top pros got there without spotters + fails

 

[kastro]

@emeric delczeg this is what a set to failure looks like.

Scott Stevenson (@fortitude_training): First things first. Cake befor instagram post download - imgsed.com

First things first. Cake before the icing. Big stones before the little ones… • In an advanced / intermediate lifter, training efforts must be extraordinary to create a (novel) hypertrophic stimulus (and perhaps even maintain gains). This holds for when training with a reps in reserve strategy...

imgsed.com

Dr.Scott is a maniac lol

 

[weedle]

You never even reached failure.

Check at the rep speed for every rep.

If you were actually near failure, you wouldn't be able to move the weight at the speed you move it.

You alternate between struggling to move the weight at all, to all the sudden digging deeper and busting out a rep at a very quick speed, and then quitting after doing the rep that was fast.

The speed at which the rep was performs indicates the muscle could have done the same weight another time at a slightly slower speed, and another time after that at an even slightly slower speed, etc, until you reach a truly grinding rep that takes several slow seconds to complete.

That's failure. You never reached it. You simply quit when you "felt" you were done. Its all right there on tape.

I got to agree with you. When I watched the vid I said to myself that isn’t failure.

 

[omoplata]

Emeric,

I respect you a lot. I hope I can do what you are doing when I am 70.

But why are you training like this? You are not trying to build new muscle at this age, right? I don't think anybody like you who already has a very good amount of muscle for a 70 year old person will actually build more muscle at that age. So logically you are probably trying to maintain what you have and not build more muscle at this age. Is all of that necessary to just maintain your muscle mass?
Or are you training like this because you enjoy this type of training?

 

[omoplata]

Were you logging before DC? Also, are you sure it was the rest-pause and not the better programming and added recovery? I remember Dante saying most guys he trained had been on a 5-7 day split and getting them to train three days a week was the hardest thing for him to do but also the most effective.

Yepppp.... Very good point.
I personally did log both my own and those of the guys I trained and definitively did not come away with the belief that going beyond failure added more muscle mass. In my own case I had strength loss actually.