Damn pro advice :(

[Rex Feral]

THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE CONFUSED!! its not just about IGF levels, the chinese are some smart mofo's.....look into how GH is actually made and what they actually test for in the lab, rips and sero's might give you similar IGF readings but their actual response on actual tissue samples can be worlds apart.

Well, since you have it all figured out maybe you can explain it?

How exactly does the manufacturing process differ?

What do they exactly test for in the lab? There are 3 basic tests we have used. GC/MS, serum and IGF. Explain how the Chinese, being smart mofos and all, can fake each one of these tests.

You claim that the body may produce IGF similarly in both rips and seros, but that the igf produced by your body via seros will somehow have a different effect than the igf your body produces via the generics?
Explain what makes the bioavailability and/or potency of your IGF different based upon the source that produced it. How about IGF produced from peptides? Do you make weaker or stronger IGF from say CJC DAC vs seros?

I anxiously await my education.


Rex.

 

[ForkLift]

gh peptides are great. I hope they don't start fudging those as well as they do there gh generics as this peptide movement gets more and more popular.

def agree with you there!
good to know you can always fall back on peptides if shit hits the fan over there...

 

[ForkLift]

Well, since you have it all figured out maybe you can explain it?

How exactly does the manufacturing process differ?

What do they exactly test for in the lab? There are 3 basic tests we have used. GC/MS, serum and IGF. Explain how the Chinese, being smart mofos and all, can fake each one of these tests.

You claim that the body may produce IGF similarly in both rips and seros, but that the igf produced by your body via seros will somehow have a different effect than the igf your body produces via the generics?
Explain what makes the bioavailability and/or potency of your IGF different based upon the source that produced it. How about IGF produced from peptides? Do you make weaker or stronger IGF from say CJC DAC vs seros?

I anxiously await my education.


Rex.

not to start shit....but i am also interested to hear a response to this...

 

[nothuman]

THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE CONFUSED!! its not just about IGF levels, the chinese are some smart mofo's.....look into how GH is actually made and what they actually test for in the lab, rips and sero's might give you similar IGF readings but their actual response on actual tissue samples can be worlds apart.

You have spoken about how great certain generic brands were multiple times in various sponsors threads over the years. Are you saying you had yet to try pharm grade at the time?

 

[b-boy]

You have spoken about how great certain generic brands were multiple times in various sponsors threads over the years. Are you saying you had yet to try pharm grade at the time?

your making a huge mistake by thinking im saying that Chinese "legit" GH is no good, it is good but its not the same animal as pharma gh. I use Chinese gh got some coming to me and will use the fuck out of it, my wife is not going to allow pharma gh in the budget, no fucking way, so I gotta do what I gotta do, whether its Chinese gh or peptides, now good friend every now and then will decide to help out on some pharma gh and I use it when they do.

 

[Racepicks]

I recently had a discussion with a friend about what was the best whisky on the market. We decided Johnny Walker Blue Label. What was cheaper, Jim Beam. Which worked better? After arguing for a while we decided it made no difference which one you used. They both got you fucked up.

 

[nothuman]

your making a huge mistake by thinking im saying that Chinese "legit" GH is no good, it is good but its not the same animal as pharma gh. I use Chinese gh got some coming to me and will use the fuck out of it, my wife is not going to allow pharma gh in the budget, no fucking way, so I gotta do what I gotta do, whether its Chinese gh or peptides, now good friend every now and then will decide to help out on some pharma gh and I use it when they do.

That makes sense

 

[b-boy]

Well, since you have it all figured out maybe you can explain it?

How exactly does the manufacturing process differ?

What do they exactly test for in the lab? There are 3 basic tests we have used. GC/MS, serum and IGF. Explain how the Chinese, being smart mofos and all, can fake each one of these tests.

You claim that the body may produce IGF similarly in both rips and seros, but that the igf produced by your body via seros will somehow have a different effect than the igf your body produces via the generics?
Explain what makes the bioavailability and/or potency of your IGF different based upon the source that produced it. How about IGF produced from peptides? Do you make weaker or stronger IGF from say CJC DAC vs seros?

I anxiously await my education.


Rex.

quoted from Karl in the sponsors section about his gh

We guarantee western pharmaceutical quality.
Each step in the process is fully tested in our quality assurance unit.
Tests are done by chemical assay techniques (SDS-HPLC tests) to ensure maximum purity, as well as by biological assay techniques to ensure optimal potency. In biological assay we test the effect of the GH on living tissue, and check the certain types of prolifiration to validate the effects of the GH. This gives the most accurate validation on the clinical effect of our product.
The product will be offered in competitive prices.
I clearly state that it'll match and exceed any product from the pharmacy,
Millions of dollars, and I emphasize and repeat - MILLIONS - were invested in this venture.
I'll be here on daily basis to provide any info or assistance you may need.
END OF QUOTE

when I read this I was like WOW, the exact thing that was said in a conversation between myself, a doctor and a friend of mine that is a chemist for the company I work for, trust me when I tell you that all gh is not created equal, believe whatever you want, its fine with me. I don't have shit figured out I just question the shit out of smart people when I get the chance.

 

[KillerStack]

Well, Rex is one of the smartest people on the forum so hopefully he engages in this debate. His posts are gold.

 

[Rex Feral]

quoted from Karl in the sponsors section about his gh

We guarantee western pharmaceutical quality.
Each step in the process is fully tested in our quality assurance unit.
Tests are done by chemical assay techniques (SDS-HPLC tests) to ensure maximum purity, as well as by biological assay techniques to ensure optimal potency. In biological assay we test the effect of the GH on living tissue, and check the certain types of prolifiration to validate the effects of the GH. This gives the most accurate validation on the clinical effect of our product.
The product will be offered in competitive prices.
I clearly state that it'll match and exceed any product from the pharmacy,
Millions of dollars, and I emphasize and repeat - MILLIONS - were invested in this venture.
I'll be here on daily basis to provide any info or assistance you may need.
END OF QUOTE

when I read this I was like WOW, the exact thing that was said in a conversation between myself, a doctor and a friend of mine that is a chemist for the company I work for, trust me when I tell you that all gh is not created equal, believe whatever you want, its fine with me. I don't have shit figured out I just question the shit out of smart people when I get the chance.

Okay well you are getting igf-1 and serum gh confused then. He showed you a person with near equal igf-1 levels. One from seros, one from Chinese and asked how they were so different if he could acheive this. You told him he was confused and that igf from sero was better than igf from generics, yada, yada, but you were the one who was actually confused and thought he was saying GH serum I guess. He asked you about igf-1, you responded as if he said GH serum while typing igf like 6 times when you meant GH.

Rex.

 

[Rex Feral]

Well, Rex is one of the smartest people on the forum so hopefully he engages in this debate. His posts are gold.

Okay KS, just for you, because you are always much too kind.

There appears to be some steps in end production that effect bioavailability of the peptide. This is besides purification. Often the purities we've seen on GC/MS aren't bad enough in the better batches of Chinese GH that smart consumers buy to appreciably effect efficacy. The next explanation for a decrease in efficacy is antibody response. Injected proteins have notoriously high immunogenicity. Having worked almost exclusively with monoclonal antibodies the past several years, I can say that antibody response to injected proteins varies widely from individual to individual. Some people develop them, some don't. Antibodies may decrease efficacy or may have no effect. I believe there was some recommendation on this board previously for breaks from Chinese GH with antibody formation being the rationale. No one can say for certain obviously as we don't even know what proteins make up the impurities. Honestly though I have never seen antibody production lead to clinical significance and need for drug withdrawal that I can remember.

Which leads us to the final explanation. I'm a clinician not a formulation chemist so this is rudimentary but was garnered through speaking with an Rnd Phd at an Investigator's meeting in Miami. I have since spoken to others about it and it appears to be the most valid explanation. Not coincidentally enough, this is also what Bboy was trying to say. Basically there is decreased solubility due to the protein not being folded that decreases biovavailability. i.e. polypeptide folding increases the solubility and expression of the peptide but is quite expensive and is not performed under the strict cost controls of Chinese production.

That being said, if you know how to buy Chinese GH it is still a much better option for all but a very very few and I didn't see any on this thread. I know at least a half dozen physicians personally who use Chinese GH now and there is one on this board. Two actually give it to their children and I have seen the data and it does not lie. These are educated people with money and access who test everything who choose to use good batches of Chinese GH because they see no reason to waste their money.

So if some dumbass pro bodybuilder who has never even used Chinese GH says it's a bad idea you are a complete fool if you listen. If you think you are better off using no GH or some bullshit 2-3 IU of human grade vs 10 of a good Chinese because that's all you can afford, you are delusional. If you are extremely wealthy, a well paid pro athlete or looking at a top 10 Olympia placing, then fine spend the money. The rest of you, which is literally almost everyone, is kidding themselves and wasting their money or are stupid consumers when it comes to buying Chinese GH.

Rex.

 

[nothuman]

Okay KS, just for you, because you are always much too kind.



There appears to be some steps in end production that effect bioavailability of the peptide. This is besides purification. Often the purities we've seen on GC/MS aren't bad enough in the better batches of Chinese GH that smart consumers buy to appreciably effect efficacy. The next explanation for a decrease in efficacy is antibody response. Injected proteins have notoriously high immunogenicity. Having worked almost exclusively with monoclonal antibodies the past several years, I can say that antibody response to injected proteins varies widely from individual to individual. Some people develop them, some don't. Antibodies may decrease efficacy or may have no effect. I believe there was some recommendation on this board previously for breaks from Chinese GH with antibody formation being the rationale. No one can say for certain obviously as we don't even know what proteins make up the impurities. Honestly though I have never seen antibody production lead to clinical significance and need for drug withdrawal that I can remember.



Which leads us to the final explanation. I'm a clinician not a formulation chemist so this is rudimentary but was garnered through speaking with an Rnd Phd at an Investigator's meeting in Miami. I have since spoken to others about it and it appears to be the most valid explanation. Not coincidentally enough, this is also what Bboy was trying to say. Basically there is decreased solubility due to the protein not being folded that decreases biovavailability. i.e. polypeptide folding increases the solubility and expression of the peptide but is quite expensive and is not performed under the strict cost controls of Chinese production.



That being said, if you know how to buy Chinese GH it is still a much better option for all but a very very few and I didn't see any on this thread. I know at least a half dozen physicians personally who use Chinese GH now and there is one on this board. Two actually give it to their children and I have seen the data and it does not lie. These are educated people with money and access who test everything who choose to use good batches of Chinese GH because they see no reason to waste their money.



So if some dumbass pro bodybuilder who has never even used Chinese GH says it's a bad idea you are a complete fool if you listen. If you think you are better off using no GH or some bullshit 2-3 IU of human grade vs 10 of a good Chinese because that's all you can afford, you are delusional. If you are extremely wealthy, a well paid pro athlete or looking at a top 10 Olympia placing, then fine spend the money. The rest of you, which is literally almost everyone, is kidding themselves and wasting their money or are stupid consumers when it comes to buying Chinese GH.



Rex.

I can already see chinese HGH sales on this board increasing ten fold after this

 

[Aliendogstar]

I can say with certainty I used riptropin and they worked like hgh was supposed to. My hands and feet changed sizes and that doesn't happen on aas alone

Yes, I too can attest to the feet size change. Any bigger and I will be hanging from trees. Already wear a 14.

 

[ricky23]

Okay KS, just for you, because you are always much too kind.

There appears to be some steps in end production that effect bioavailability of the peptide. This is besides purification. Often the purities we've seen on GC/MS aren't bad enough in the better batches of Chinese GH that smart consumers buy to appreciably effect efficacy. The next explanation for a decrease in efficacy is antibody response. Injected proteins have notoriously high immunogenicity. Having worked almost exclusively with monoclonal antibodies the past several years, I can say that antibody response to injected proteins varies widely from individual to individual. Some people develop them, some don't. Antibodies may decrease efficacy or may have no effect. I believe there was some recommendation on this board previously for breaks from Chinese GH with antibody formation being the rationale. No one can say for certain obviously as we don't even know what proteins make up the impurities. Honestly though I have never seen antibody production lead to clinical significance and need for drug withdrawal that I can remember.

Which leads us to the final explanation. I'm a clinician not a formulation chemist so this is rudimentary but was garnered through speaking with an Rnd Phd at an Investigator's meeting in Miami. I have since spoken to others about it and it appears to be the most valid explanation. Not coincidentally enough, this is also what Bboy was trying to say. Basically there is decreased solubility due to the protein not being folded that decreases biovavailability. i.e. polypeptide folding increases the solubility and expression of the peptide but is quite expensive and is not performed under the strict cost controls of Chinese production.

That being said, if you know how to buy Chinese GH it is still a much better option for all but a very very few and I didn't see any on this thread. I know at least a half dozen physicians personally who use Chinese GH now and there is one on this board. Two actually give it to their children and I have seen the data and it does not lie. These are educated people with money and access who test everything who choose to use good batches of Chinese GH because they see no reason to waste their money.

So if some dumbass pro bodybuilder who has never even used Chinese GH says it's a bad idea you are a complete fool if you listen. If you think you are better off using no GH or some bullshit 2-3 IU of human grade vs 10 of a good Chinese because that's all you can afford, you are delusional. If you are extremely wealthy, a well paid pro athlete or looking at a top 10 Olympia placing, then fine spend the money. The rest of you, which is literally almost everyone, is kidding themselves and wasting their money or are stupid consumers when it comes to buying Chinese GH.

Rex.

thanks for informative post Rex, but I wasn't sure if you meant generic gh as you said "chinese gh" or maybe you meant jintropin?

also didn't quite understand the bolded text? you mean you didn't see any of the chinese gh you rate highly mentioned in this thread?
because i think people reading your post will likely think you're referring to rips, hyges and the other chinese gh brands.
not sure if this is the case though?

 

[Jeremy24]

your making a huge mistake by thinking im saying that Chinese "legit" GH is no good, it is good but its not the same animal as pharma gh. I use Chinese gh got some coming to me and will use the fuck out of it, my wife is not going to allow pharma gh in the budget, no fucking way, so I gotta do what I gotta do, whether its Chinese gh or peptides, now good friend every now and then will decide to help out on some pharma gh and I use it when they do.

Same here bud, no way my wife would be cool with me buying 4-600 dollar pharma kits monthly, but hey i cant blame her. Shes cool with everything as long as we can provide well for our child and still save money.

 

[Jeremy24]

quoted from Karl in the sponsors section about his gh

We guarantee western pharmaceutical quality.
Each step in the process is fully tested in our quality assurance unit.
Tests are done by chemical assay techniques (SDS-HPLC tests) to ensure maximum purity, as well as by biological assay techniques to ensure optimal potency. In biological assay we test the effect of the GH on living tissue, and check the certain types of prolifiration to validate the effects of the GH. This gives the most accurate validation on the clinical effect of our product.
The product will be offered in competitive prices.
I clearly state that it'll match and exceed any product from the pharmacy,
Millions of dollars, and I emphasize and repeat - MILLIONS - were invested in this venture.
I'll be here on daily basis to provide any info or assistance you may need.
END OF QUOTE

when I read this I was like WOW, the exact thing that was said in a conversation between myself, a doctor and a friend of mine that is a chemist for the company I work for, trust me when I tell you that all gh is not created equal, believe whatever you want, its fine with me. I don't have shit figured out I just question the shit out of smart people when I get the chance.

Couldnt agree more, i was actually discussing with a freind who works in a lab , the process by which gh is made and its some complicated yet simple science. i know that doesnt make sense haha,

 

[Jeremy24]

Here is my take on this and really the only way, in my opinion to validate the diffrence between pharma and chinese gh. Buy soem chinese run it at 5-10iu for 2 months, note you diet, training, recovery, body composition etc. Take a 2 month break, now buy some pharma grade and run it at the same dose with the same diet and training. Note your recovery and body composition again. Now take your two result sheets and compare them to each other. This should give you a diffientive answer to your question

 

[afeef]

Well everyone is looking for that goal...and not ready to go the distance....but i think must hve patince.....

 

[nothuman]

I really do not want to get into a debate about this, but i know people say UGL is great etc and for the most part it is , however without going into to much detail, lets just say i have a friend who is able to test products (this service would you believe was actually FREE in the UK and has now been suspended)

I have seen reputable UGL's test for INCORRECT compounds , to just name a few things i have seen :-

Test Blends spiked with tren
nearly every single Masteron low dose tren
primabolan low dose deca
eq low dose deca
npp really prop
tren a grossly underdosed
anavar really winstrol
anadrol really dbol
halotestin really diruetics
clenbuterol really caffeine
PERFECT HG replica amps with no active substance

The most reliable thing was just basic test eth/cyp

It is very hard to actually know what you are dealing with and sure you might not mind a bit of tren mixed into your gear on a blast ....but when your on a cruise you def want to know that you on low dose test if that is your intention. The lab could be great but get a bad batch of a raw that could weaken that product , there is so much to it, its not like UGL's quality control their products with batch analysis like you do in pharma.

At the end of the day this is a money making business always remember that.
and if you have used proper human grade or properly dosed gear you will know about it ESPECIALLY when it comes to exotics such as orals and things like npp / tren etc..

My friend is training with a well known pro trainer and he clearly clearly advocates a human grade AAS and pushed a particular company, you will notice if you ever see this guys cycle recommendations that they are very low because the AAS is potent and correctly dosed.

The thing that really drives me crazy is that you're not allowed to tell us exactly which labs all those fakes come from. People will continue to get scammed by these companies and there's really not much we can do about it.

 

[Pbfanatic321]

Where the fuck do I get pharma GH? I don't care the price, point me in the right direction and I will buy 15 kits right now.