Does anyone still do PCT and off time?

[GottaGain]

If you can restore a naturally healthy test level when coming off completely for a while that's fine, but if you're past the point of no return there's no sense in torturing yourself.

 

[ALLEX]

How is your life in bedroom? Are you guys all dependent on Viagra or Cialis.

Yep.

I know a lot of people say oh I am so horny I cna screw anything, but I have chatted with a lot of people offline and they say that it absoultely sucks and they have to keep a viagra or cialis around.

It doesn't suck. No biggie... It works just fine. Take 10mg cialis every 2 or 3 days with some painkiller and you're good to go.

Thank God they invented these drugs. My endocrine system has been damaged since my third or fourth cycle... Even if bloods come up alright and I'm on TRT it's not the same...

 

[Elvia1023]

I blast and cruise but occasionally come off mainly for the mental break. Now because I have been missing shots so much my hormones are all over the place. As Allex stated sometimes it just doesn't feel the same. I never usually have problems in the bedroom ever. But over the last few weeks it's been a bit up and down.

Sometimes I feel so horny etc and have sex and after 15mins it goes soft. Other times I don't feel right and then have loads of sex and feel fine (surprised as I felt off). Most days I don't wake up with an erection so I know things are not great when that happens. I need to get a blood test... plus actually inject. Just started 40mg test p ed and gonna stay there for about 6 weeks.

Tadalafil is an amazing help and can be incredible. But even with that I have been off a few times. The combo of mt2 and tadalafil is a powerful combo.

 

[blackrock]

I still cycle off. It just doesn't make any sense to chain yourself to exogenous hormones unless you're relying on athletic performance for your livelihood. Even then, you need to take it under serious consideration that you are shortening your lifespan. Allowing your body time off to return to homeostasis helps mitigate the risks of being on. If you are not getting paid to blast and cruise you are simply looking at life in a short sighted manner, in my opinion.

even if you are getting paid, it doesnt seem justified. But thats personal rpeference I guess.


What does your PCT look like? do you recover?

 

[blackrock]

Yep.



It doesn't suck. No biggie... It works just fine. Take 10mg cialis every 2 or 3 days with some painkiller and you're good to go.

Thank God they invented these drugs. My endocrine system has been damaged since my third or fourth cycle... Even if bloods come up alright and I'm on TRT it's not the same...

I blast and cruise but occasionally come off mainly for the mental break. Now because I have been missing shots so much my hormones are all over the place. As Allex stated sometimes it just doesn't feel the same. I never usually have problems in the bedroom ever. But over the last few weeks it's been a bit up and down.

Sometimes I feel so horny etc and have sex and after 15mins it goes soft. Other times I don't feel right and then have loads of sex and feel fine (surprised as I felt off). Most days I don't wake up with an erection so I know things are not great when that happens. I need to get a blood test... plus actually inject. Just started 40mg test p ed and gonna stay there for about 6 weeks.

Tadalafil is an amazing help and can be incredible. But even with that I have been off a few times. The combo of mt2 and tadalafil is a powerful combo.

thanks for the replies guys..

Allex what do you take the pain killer for?? negate headaches?

 

[Scotte0057]

even if you are getting paid, it doesnt seem justified. But thats personal rpeference I guess.


What does your PCT look like? do you recover?

I agree with you that it doesn't seem justified. My point was that it is always personal preference, but I compare it to the physical damage people take to play professional American football, fighters, etc. If you are going to rely on hormones permanently you had better have a damn good reason, even then it should be thought through in terms of what your lifelong goals are. If you don't mind taking a few years off your life so you can have a career for a few years that sets you up financially then that is a situation where I may consider it. But if someone is on permanently and its only so they can maintain a look, I feel that is very short sighted.

My PCT is typically this (I run light cycles that last no more than 14 weeks):

HCG 250X2 per week beginning 1/2 way through cycle
Clomid 200 first day/100ed week 1/50ed week 2/25ed week 3-4
Nolvadex 40ed week 1-2/20ed week 3-4

I typically run GH or peps through my cycles and PCT. Besides the recovery and muscle building benefits, GH encourages LH production and will help you bounce back.

Anecdotally I recover in approximately 8 weeks after a cycle, at least that is when I feel "normal" again. Clinically, I had bloodwork done 10 weeks after my last cycle and my doc said he couldn't tell that I had been on anything if I hadn't told him. My doc is very progressive and believes in moderate hormone use to improve quality of life, but is an advocate of using short cycles and returning to homeostasis because his research points to it being lower risk.

 

[little slice]

If you are going to rely on hormones permanently you had better have a damn good reason

but...but...what if I don't have a good reason?



what's going to happen to me???

 

[Scotte0057]

No need to troll, Slice

 

[ALLEX]

Allex what do you take the pain killer for?? negate headaches?

Yes, I usually get a mild headache and stuffed nose from viagra/cialis.

 

[jrock00123]

I agree with you that it doesn't seem justified. My point was that it is always personal preference, but I compare it to the physical damage people take to play professional American football, fighters, etc. If you are going to rely on hormones permanently you had better have a damn good reason, even then it should be thought through in terms of what your lifelong goals are. If you don't mind taking a few years off your life so you can have a career for a few years that sets you up financially then that is a situation where I may consider it. But if someone is on permanently and its only so they can maintain a look, I feel that is very short sighted.

My PCT is typically this (I run light cycles that last no more than 14 weeks):

HCG 250X2 per week beginning 1/2 way through cycle
Clomid 200 first day/100ed week 1/50ed week 2/25ed week 3-4
Nolvadex 40ed week 1-2/20ed week 3-4

I typically run GH or peps through my cycles and PCT. Besides the recovery and muscle building benefits, GH encourages LH production and will help you bounce back.

Anecdotally I recover in approximately 8 weeks after a cycle, at least that is when I feel "normal" again. Clinically, I had bloodwork done 10 weeks after my last cycle and my doc said he couldn't tell that I had been on anything if I hadn't told him. My doc is very progressive and believes in moderate hormone use to improve quality of life, but is an advocate of using short cycles and returning to homeostasis because his research points to it being lower risk.

I'm not sure pct is healthier. It depends on the length of time off and the cruising amounts. If you're off for at least six months then perhaps pct is best. On the other hand, if you do multiple eight week cycles I would argue that a TRT dose between is healthier than the pct drugs + hormone roller coaster.

As far as bloodwork, there is no reason for it not to be near perfect on a trt dose.

 

[Dezzy]

I still cycle off. It just doesn't make any sense to chain yourself to exogenous hormones unless you're relying on athletic performance for your livelihood. Even then, you need to take it under serious consideration that you are shortening your lifespan. Allowing your body time off to return to homeostasis helps mitigate the risks of being on. If you are not getting paid to blast and cruise you are simply looking at life in a short sighted manner, in my opinion.

I agree. I'm not doing this competitively or for a living so I have decided to allow my body to return to homeostasis and continue to cycle for the time being. I focus on getting my diet and training perfect. Guys in the 70's didn't blast and cruise all year and they still looked good. So i figured I can too. I have nothing against guys that blast and cruise, it definitely would seem to help you keep more size.

 

[little slice]

I agree. I'm not doing this competitively or for a living so I have decided to allow my body to return to homeostasis and continue to cycle for the time being. I focus on getting my diet and training perfect. Guys in the 70's didn't blast and cruise all year and they still looked good. So i figured I can too. I have nothing against guys that blast and cruise, it definitely would seem to help you keep more size.

they also had legit, accurately-dosed gear.



and who knows? some of them might have stayed on.. why wouldn't they? that's one thing that I don't understand about competitive bodybuilders -

I was reading on another site recently, where an upper-level national level competitor (who narrowly missed his pro card) said 'I've never gone above 2 grams a week, ever'. All these lemmings were agreeing with him and saying that anything above 2 grams a week is ridiculous/you better be mr. Olympia if you're running that much, etc.


whatever happened to fucking winning? did this guy mean to tell us that he put all that work into his diet, training, supplementation, etc...he let bodybuilding dictate his life choices SO much for so many years, but he'd rather lose than raise the dose past 2 grams?

guys spend years, decades of their life with a pro card as one of their main goals...but they won't up the dose a little bit (or a lot), in order to get it?

when Kevin Levrone finished second at the Olympia, do you think he was like 'aww fuck, guess i need to train harder and eat better'...? or do you think upping the drugs might have been in there too?


bodybuilding is one of the most competitive sports i can think of...yet, according to what many bodybuilders say, it seems to have some of the least competitive people (when you consider that it's the only sport where 'anything goes')

i guess what Big A said is true about people being full of shit.




sorry for the rant. lol

 

[Dezzy]

they also had legit, accurately-dosed gear.



and who knows? some of them might have stayed on.. why wouldn't they? that's one thing that I don't understand about competitive bodybuilders -

I was reading on another site recently, where an upper-level national level competitor (who narrowly missed his pro card) said 'I've never gone above 2 grams a week, ever'. All these lemmings were agreeing with him and saying that anything above 2 grams a week is ridiculous/you better be mr. Olympia if you're running that much, etc.


whatever happened to fucking winning? did this guy mean to tell us that he put all that work into his diet, training, supplementation, etc...he let bodybuilding dictate his life choices SO much for so many years, but he'd rather lose than raise the dose past 2 grams?

guys spend years, decades of their life with a pro card as one of their main goals...but they won't up the dose a little bit (or a lot), in order to get it?

when Kevin Levrone finished second at the Olympia, do you think he was like 'aww fuck, guess i need to train harder and eat better'...? or do you think upping the drugs might have been in there too?


bodybuilding is one of the most competitive sports i can think of...yet, according to what many bodybuilders say, it seems to have some of the least competitive people (when you consider that it's the only sport where 'anything goes')

i guess what Big A said is true about people being full of shit.




sorry for the rant. lol

Fucking winning sometimes equals=good genetics (less gear). And I totally agree with you, in the 70's they were using strictly pharm grade. But I'm convinced they used less and didn't stay on all the time. I don't don't doubt that some abused it, and stayed on it for long periods of time. But I would say a majority didn't based on the lack of gyno. Who knows.

 

[little slice]

Fucking winning sometimes equals=good genetics (less gear). And I totally agree with you, in the 70's they were using strictly pharm grade. But I'm convinced they used less and didn't stay on all the time. I don't don't doubt that some abused it, and stayed on it for long periods of time. But I would say a majority didn't based on the lack of gyno. Who knows.

right, but for those who don't have great genetics? and for those who do have great genetics who are competing against others with great genetics? it just doesn't make an sense to not be willing to do whatever it takes (within reason) if you really, really want something.


Franco Columbo had gyno. i believe it was the 1981 Olympia. I believe they relied heavily on tamoxifen back then but i can't be sure.

 

[Dezzy]

I knew you were gonna bring that up little slice! I think your right people will do crazy shit to win no matter what the sport.

 

[ALLEX]

Guys in the 70's didn't blast and cruise all year

How do you know?

 

[Dezzy]

Nobody truly knows but them right Allex?

steroids 3.m4v: [ame]http://youtu.be/r0bgESntOB8[/ame]

 

[TrinityD]

There were TONS of people in the 1980s that didn't PCT.
Who cares what people in the 70s or 80s or 90s or 2010s did? Make a proper decision for yourself based on what makes sense.

PS, I assure you there were guys in the 70s making stupid decisions such as dbol for months on end. I'm not saying modern bodybuilding is healthier because it's not. It's overall much much worse. But yeah there were definetly plenty of people using over 1g in the 70s

 

[little slice]

Nobody truly knows but them right Allex?

steroids 3.m4v: http://youtu.be/r0bgESntOB8

:banghead:

 

[Dezzy]

There were TONS of people in the 1980s that didn't PCT.
Who cares what people in the 70s or 80s or 90s or 2010s did? Make a proper decision for yourself based on what makes sense.

PS, I assure you there were guys in the 70s making stupid decisions such as dbol for months on end. I'm not saying modern bodybuilding is healthier because it's not. It's overall much much worse. But yeah there were definetly plenty of people using over 1g in the 70s

I agree Trinity. Make proper decisions for yourself

There were TONS of people in the 1980s that didn't PCT.
Who cares what people in the 70s or 80s or 90s or 2010s did? Make a proper decision for yourself based on what makes sense.

PS, I assure you there were guys in the 70s making stupid decisions such as dbol for months on end. I'm not saying modern bodybuilding is healthier because it's not. It's overall much much worse. But yeah there were definetly plenty of people using over 1g in the 70s

Agreed.