Getting more, out of less...

[broke1naz]

Nice Read,Iam 40 and also droped back been 8weeks and feel better waiting on blood work to see about hgh.

 

[hemipower]

hemi good read brother
hey i was curious
can you explain why you would use examstene instead of clomid?

is there a major difference or
would throwing in some clomid /nolva/ a dex throughout wouldnt hurt

Well exemestane (which is easier on lipid profile than arimidex and not as estro suppressive as you WANT/NEED some estro or sex drive and joints will suffer), as an aromatase inhibitor stops excess androgens from being converted into estrogen...I would think this would be a better choice than allowing the conversion then using a "synthetic weak" estrogen like clomid would just block estrogen's ability to bind and have an effect...so you still have the estro in your system which doesn't seem as good as stopping the conversion in the first place...although maybe a tiny bit of AI and a tiny bit of clomid would work well. Due to the fact that ONCE I took clomid and at 150mg a day had the visual disturbances that you hear about, I have not tried this, but this is the exact type of conversation I had hoped to evoke with this. I may try this at some point: test shots divided into 3 per week (just under 100mg MWF) and clomid 50mg a day and see how that does. What I would like to find is the least I can do and still look and feel great and be healthy. I think I am close now...and don't want to make MAJOR changes but something like that makes sense. I typically try to avoid AI use altogether (which is why I said what I did about using proviron or masteron to limit the activity of estro).

I have a buddy who went to the doc, tested low and was prescribed 300mg test once weekly with 50mg clomid daily and LOVES it. His doc said that since he is accustomed to much higher test levels he knows 100mg per week would not be satisfactory, but also said that 400+ was unsafe and he wouldn't prescribe/allow it.

 

[plug]

hey hemipower

enjoyed reading your post I am 65 and have been in the same position as you for about 10 years now.

 

[hemipower]

Here is the posts from Emeric...hope he chimes in here since we are talking about the same, getting the best physique from the least drugs...couple hundred mg test or so and a bit of gh with several supplements is what he likes. No deca or it seems ANY other AAS really necessary...

but TONS of info on exactly this subject and this is what the earlier poster was talking about...
Doing 50mg test EOD and getting better results than users taking slightly more.

I think I will adjust to something similar to this...with more frequent shots T levels are even MORE stable so less estro conversion and more test in your system...very smart.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/39887-why-i-think.html

 

[Gravel]

Wow - yes I think gh is key with test. I personally don't like deca much and avoid it. How does your physique compare with what you had when you competed? What about your workouts? Frequency change or tempo or weights/intensity?

I believe Deca was a key reason for my low test levels but I always was a fan of Deca and D-Ball; I felt full, strong and my joints felt good. Maybe I will try a little Masteron.

My physique is continuosly improving, remember I hit rock bottom with my injuries and low test. When I added in the GH and peptides I noticed that cool look; round, full and tight-delts pop out at you. I am very close to where I was. I believe this is because I have now been consistent with my test levels for a couple years. In the past I had the old school mentality where I would go off for as long as I was on-you know (roller coaster).

I am definitely not as strong but I have completely changed from a 5-8 rep guy to 12-20 rep guy. My wife is a competitor and she got tired of training under my wing and started training with high reps and put alot of blood in her muscle; she progressed quite quickly. I followed her program and have made impressive changes in lagging body parts. After reading B-Boys thread it made sense for me to switch. I train 4 days a week for an hour work out-I bury myself with light weight (LOL).

 

[hemipower]

Maybe I will try a little Masteron.

My physique is continuosly improving, remember I hit rock bottom with my injuries and low test. When I added in the GH and peptides I noticed that cool look; round, full and tight-delts pop out at you. I am very close to where I was. I believe this is because I have now been consistent with my test levels for a couple years. In the past I had the old school mentality where I would go off for as long as I was on-you know (roller coaster).

I am definitely not as strong but I have completely changed from a 5-8 rep guy to 12-20 rep guy. My wife is a competitor and she got tired of training under my wing and started training with high reps and put alot of blood in her muscle; she progressed quite quickly. I followed her program and have made impressive changes in lagging body parts. After reading B-Boys thread it made sense for me to switch. I train 4 days a week for an hour work out-I bury myself with light weight (LOL).

Right there with ya...I think having HIGH normal test levels ALL the time MUST be better than SUPER high for 10-12 weeks then OFF for 12! Miserable roller coaster...always looking forward and thinking "this sucks, can't wait to get back ON!"

I don't train with anything I cannot lift 10 times to failure. Usual range is 10-15 reps for most things. I do a LOT of body weight stuff...pullups, dips, varied angle slow pushups and sometimes explosive ones, handstand pushups (until recently I somehow injured my wrist and can't do these until it heals), etc.
Masteron will harden you some and should notice a strength increase also. The list of things I am even willing to take is short now. Eq at no more than 300mg a week. Primo around 400mg a week. Anavar up to 30mg a day. Masteron at 300mg a week max (currently do about 250 test and 100 masteron and SEEMS to be enough to help when on low test). And proviron up to 50mg a day. I add at most one of the above to test, and stay on gh and/or peptides as much as I can. Trying to stay safe, simple and healthy but still have a great physique.

I read through the posts from Emeric and he advises test done at 50mg each day...which I thought was a bit often to stick but it WOULD keep levels even and minimize estro conversion SO meeting somewhat in the middle I may soon swap from 125mg twice a week to 100mg three times a week...I DID notice improvement going from 250 once a week to the split into 2 shots...hope to notice the same when going to 3 but not really wanting to do it daily...

 

[Gravel]

Right there with ya...I think having HIGH normal test levels ALL the time MUST be better than SUPER high for 10-12 weeks then OFF for 12! Miserable roller coaster...always looking forward and thinking "this sucks, can't wait to get back ON!"

I don't train with anything I cannot lift 10 times to failure. Usual range is 10-15 reps for most things. I do a LOT of body weight stuff...pullups, dips, varied angle slow pushups and sometimes explosive ones, handstand pushups (until recently I somehow injured my wrist and can't do these until it heals), etc.
Masteron will harden you some and should notice a strength increase also. The list of things I am even willing to take is short now. Eq at no more than 300mg a week. Primo around 400mg a week. Anavar up to 30mg a day. Masteron at 300mg a week max (currently do about 250 test and 100 masteron and SEEMS to be enough to help when on low test). And proviron up to 50mg a day. I add at most one of the above to test, and stay on gh and/or peptides as much as I can. Trying to stay safe, simple and healthy but still have a great physique.

I read through the posts from Emeric and he advises test done at 50mg each day...which I thought was a bit often to stick but it WOULD keep levels even and minimize estro conversion SO meeting somewhat in the middle I may soon swap from 125mg twice a week to 100mg three times a week...I DID notice improvement going from 250 once a week to the split into 2 shots...hope to notice the same when going to 3 but not really wanting to do it daily...

I think I might try Sub Q with the test every other day for a little experiment. My plan is to compete next spring and keep it limited to anavar primo, winstrol and masteron. Have you ever tried the liquid anavar or winstrol you drink?

Nice visiting with you.

 

[hemipower]

I think I might try Sub Q with the test every other day for a little experiment. My plan is to compete next spring and keep it limited to anavar primo, winstrol and masteron. Have you ever tried the liquid anavar or winstrol you drink?

I have not tried them (in liquid format anyway) but a buddy of mine did and liked it a lot. I don't like orals to start with and fear liver issues but if I did use them I would use anavar. Liquids just seem like it would be hard to dose...a 10mg tablet is 10mg. A mL of say 20mg is hard to dose properly as it may settle some and often 1mL is 12mg and others its 26mg (for example). My only issue with that. But I guess if you shake it well it would be pretty uniform and take multiple small doses a day would all even out somewhat...

I dont know about sub-q test...I plan to do IM but just 75-100mg EOD with a little 27g pin or something...less than 1/2 mL so shouldn't be too much hassle.

You should be able to do just fine getting show ready with just the compounds you intend to take and they are not as harsh as many others.

 

[Deity]

Years of cycling…and not competing for that last 10 of them, I feel it’s time to turn the volume down and settle down. I still enjoy being the big guy, training like an animal, being ox strong…but there is no real REASON to continue on this roller coaster of risk. Yes, I know the risk of aas/gh are VERY exaggerated by the media and LE…and I know they should not be controlled substances (gh currently is not but is treated as such), but I understand they are (in part) due to the very FEW that see health problems with repeated ABUSE and for long periods of time. I think they should be kept out of kids’ hands and to an extent government regulated so we don’t get fake stuff but what we do to our bodies should be our choice. Without getting too deep into the political debates…having over half of the prisoners in America in for non-violent drug offenses is silly (not to mention the highest percentage of citizens locked up), costs these people a shot at a future, and tax payers an enormous amount of money. Not to mention what is spent fighting the war on drugs…which shouldn’t be fought in the first place. Relax the laws on drugs and spend money chasing killers and rapists and people that don’t belong in public.

But back to my point – the title of this is “getting more out of less”…and I say that as many of us are probably where I am. Shifting into TRT/HRT and want to get the most out of it…and stay as safe as we can health wise (and legally). So, how do we do that? How does it all come together?

Well…I have some theories, and NO they are not GROUND BREAKING or shocking news in any way. Just things I would like to discuss and hope to learn more…I have read several books but I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here on PM. I have spent a few months lowering down to the minimums and seeing how things are tolerated and what I am left with physically and mentally. As we know, we feel INCREDIBLE on (for example) 600mg to 1g test, 4-8iu of gh, a few hundred mg of some other aas, and a handful of other ancillaries. But, what is NECESSARY to still have a good physique, feel good, have some libido, etc once we have done the above off and on for years, and THAT has become our definition of NORMAL? What do we do when lean 235 lbs in the mirror looks AVERAGE to us? We cannot run all these products forever and expect to be free of health issues…some can…many cannot. So that is where I am and think possibly many others are also. Before I get beat to a pulp, YES I realize this is a “hardcore bodybuilding” board and not life extension…but at some point even hardcore bodybuilders will be thinking the same as I am currently. I have spoken to a few old pros about this…and to feel NORMAL they still have to run pretty high doses…I don’t want to end up there. Heart issues and blood clot stories are becoming more and more frequent and that is not anything I want to have to sit here and post about. I have always been somewhat moderate …but even that can’t go on forever. So before I am forced to for health reasons…I decided to move to a healthier plan now.

Gear: So, what do we NEED? Of course a physician should be consulted and full blood work done, in no way do I intend my ramblings to replace physical findings from an exam/blood work. But - I don’t think many of us will be happy with 100mg of test a week. I feel like 250-300mg would be safe for the majority of us and some reasonable physicians will allow this. Be sure to also keep an eye on RBC/hemoglobin/hematocrit levels. But even this small dose can aromatize and then you have a new problem to deal with…estrogen. So, most physicians want to go with clomid or arimidex. I feel arimidex is too strong personally…and if I am to use it, it would be at about ¼ mg EOD. Or exemestane at 12.5mg for a little better cholesterol profile. But – then if estro is too low it messes up libido and gh profile…so at that point we would also need a couple iu of gh every morning. I have posted a few times asking around about masteron being used continuously or even switching between 100-200mg/wk masteron and 25-50mg/day proviron several times a year…say 3 months on one, swap to the other. I don’t know how safe this would be long term, but seems to be better than an AI all things considered. (I don’t have hair and neither gives me acne so the question then becomes if they will cause prostate issues long term since both are DHT based). Using masteron instead of an AI would still act as a weak anti-aromatase and minimize the negative effects of estro. Now – these are again, low doses aimed at the anti-estrogenic effects and also the SHBG effects to free up some test so even 250mg per week FEELS like 400mg…I would consider occasional low dose EQ, primo or anavar but if I can look/feel great on just basics (test/gh) then I don’t see a real need for the properties of these either.

Training: Of course…as anabolic levels drop, your workouts and diets must also adapt. I have noticed that it takes me noticeably longer to recover now that I am on about a third of the aas/gh I was previously…but still far superior to getting off altogether which after YEARS of this…isn’t really an option. I went from 3 days on, 1 off training and a 3 day split, to a different 3 day split (and soon 4 day) and 2 on, 1 off. Seems to be ok so far. I train with about 75-80% of the weights I previously did but with more sets/reps and more quality. I hardly use machines as ALL as I feel this is a better way to train your body to have useable/functional strength. I am ok shedding the bodybuilder look (some) for more fit and functional physique. Heaviest I have been is 250 lbs “offseason” and with 5% body fat last year I was about 214 lbs. At this point I would be happy with 215-220 lbs and maybe 8-9% fat. I feel that is attainable with what I am discussing here. Maybe I am a fool but I don’t think muscle that I have had for about 8 years will shed easily especially since it was not gained with excessively high dose cycles.

Diet wise I am leaning more towards a combination of Mountain Dog and Paleo. I certainly cannot get away with a cheat DAY anymore and have cut to 2 moderate cheat MEALS and mostly continuing my previous diet otherwise with a little less calories…meaning Mon-Fri low carb (no sugars and about 120 carbs a day), high protein and moderate fats with weekends similar only add in additional carbs (still mainly clean sources other than what may be in a cheat meal). I do a lot of whole eggs (free range preferred), grass fed steak, wild salmon, fruit, oats, brown rice, broccoli, natural peanut butter, mixed nuts, etc. So far so good…2 months in and down from lean 230 lbs to slightly softer 225 lbs but seem to be holding strength and size wise generally. I don’t think I am eating enough to maintain my muscle…but my hunger is not NEAR what it used to be. I think if anything, I would bump up the gh from 2iu in the morn and peptides at night…to 3iu in the morn and peptides twice a day. That should keep body fat down and increase the amount of muscle I can hold and should still keep me under the water retention and side effects from higher gh dose.

Supplements: I use a plethora of supplements. Of course the staples, a multivitamin, 4-6g fish oil a day, a quality blended protein, and a few times a year liver/organ cleanse. Also normally on thyroid support (if not on t4), mucuna pruriens EOD, and melatonin when needed for sleep. Which by the way – it seems like I sleep MORE now than before…not sure why. BCAA blends are sipped on most of the day. Preworkouts (ones without DMAA) are used before most workouts as my drive is a bit decreased lately. And joint support products. Nettle root could also be used in place of proviron somewhat…as I use Mucuna Pruriens in place of cabergoline. No, not nearly as strong…but on the lower doses we are talking about, should not need much. Again, getting more out of less. Currently considering a couple of additions: ALA and chromium as glucose disposal agents in an attempt to keep cholesterol profiles in check.

It’s almost depressing to set a goal for the first time, of NOT changing. Normally it’s more like spend half the year adding mass and the other half maintaining it while getting body fat as low as I can reasonably. But looking back I have added only about 2 lbs of LBM per year for about 10 years doing all this…not worth it. So, before I always had something inspiring and something to chase after. But for the first time…the goal is stay the same, be functionally strong, healthy, and look fit. But, like I said – tired of chasing side effects around and wondering why I feel a certain way. Indigestion and anger from tren? Low sex drive from deca? Pain in my joints from winny? Worried about high rbc from eq? Headaches and nose bleeds from anadrol? Back pain/pumps from dbol? Severe cramps from clen? It’s just not worth it to me anymore to go through that…yes, it USED to be. I wanted to be a big strong beast all winter and lean machine all summer…whatever it took. Things have changed…and I imagine this is on the minds of many of us that have been doing this for 10+ years…I have nearly obsessively pursued the physique I have always wanted…and now I want to pursue other things of interest (read more, build a muscle car, etc) and put “bodybuilding” on the backburner and be in a maintenance or holding pattern indefinitely. The amount of $$$ and time I have spent on this through the last 10-12 years is unreal and I don’t even want to add it up. Not to say it wasn’t worth it…I learned a LOT about myself, physiology, nutrition, biology and much more.
This isn’t to say, I will never have the desire to come back…but even then my intent will be getting the MOST out of the least and sticking with products with the highest benefit to side effect ratios (var, eq, primo for example). But – I hope there are others out there where I am now…and seeking similar information.

Very good read bro.

 

[hemipower]

Very good read bro.

Thanks. I had hoped to find a FEW guys in the same boat and did get a few here and a few send PMs and this also lead me to Emeric's posts which were very informative and learned a lot...making some minor changes to what is in the initial post and will update everything in a week or two. Feeling great so far! Keeping most of my strength and size. Libido is decent.

Added Adaptodrol (DAA) and adding Humanofort next wk for supplements...then about 3 weeks later adding in a low dose of Ostarine to see how that goes...15mg a day. Sticking with 250mg a week of test split into 2 shots with 50mg masteron (prop) added to each. Even less peaks in hormone levels keeping estro low so no need for an AI when I run out of masteron...will switch to proviron 25-50mg/d for a couple months.

 

[hemipower]

I guess I should update this...I have gotten several questions on it via PM and haven't been back here on a while.

Training - Took a month off of training for the first time in years. Needed it, several minor joint issues trying to train around was getting difficult and frustrating. Now that I'm back I have less joint pain and I am training very light compared to years past and only doing a 2 day split, and working out 4 days a week. Basically push day 1, pull day 2. Day 3 off. Day 4 push, Day 5 pull, then days 6 and 7 off. Feel good. Look forward to working out also. Will run this another week or so, then go to a 3 day split and still train 4 days a week and keep it rotating...probably chest/back/shoulders day 1, legs day 2, day 3 off, day 4 arms, day 5 start over...day 6 and 7 off. Something like that. Arms and legs need some attention and chest/back/shoulders are good if I can just maintain them and harden up.

"HRT" - During the month off, kept the test at 250mg, 250iu hcg twice weekly, and 2-3iu daily gh. Blood work came back with high estro levels so added 12.5mg exem EOD for a while...I suspect this is from stopping masteron that was at 100mg a week about a month prior. Also started proviron at 25mg daily. and now that I am back in the gym added 15mg a day of Ostarine and 100mg a week (split dose) of tren E for some recomposition hopefully as I got SOFT in that month off. Will spend about 2 more weeks on this and then just test a while, and then on a blend of npp/deca at 300mg a week again for joint relief...hopefully after ALL this my joints will be better!
During month off, my weight went up about 5-6 lbs then within 10 days back in the gym it's back down but still look softer! A lot may have been water weight as I was on cortisone for the joint issues for a while. Hope to be off the anti-inflam drugs SOON also.

Supplement wise, I am dropping the Humanofort as I don't feel I got much/any benefit from it in the 2.5 - 3 months on it. Stopped pre-workouts and still stim free other than coffee/caffeine. I am doing 2 servings of BCAAs a day. Bumped fish oil from 6g to 8g a day hoping to help joints further. Going to pull out the DHEA next after dropping from 100mg a day...to 50mg...and next week to 25mg a day...no negative effect from stopping it so no need to take it, and fear it might contribute to my estrogen issue. Added cissus for additional joint relief.

Diet - was BAD in the month off....but now back to normal. Low carbs, high protein, moderate fats. Lots of nuts. Oats or a white potato with whole eggs and ground beef in the morning. Chicken and rice later. a couple shakes a day. Fish, beef, or turkey with veggies at night. Simple. Clean. Honestly it's probably too low in calories...can't be more than about 250 protein, 120 carbs and 100 fats. 2400 calories isn't enough...assuming these numbers are right.

 

[luckyone]

BUMP FOR A GREAT READ

Thanks for the update!

your brother in CHrist,

Lucky

 

[luckyone]

posted twice by mistake

 

[TNH]

Nice thread.
I'm 29, but have been leaning in this direction as well. I worry about a lot of things, and I generally think long term, so I don't think heavy cycling is a good thing for me. Many threads have been started lately (mostly by guys that have walked the walk for many years) about health issues and toning things down at 40+ years of age, and it has got me thinking. The last ten years kind of flew by, so I figure I'll be in their shoes relatively quickly. I figure why spend the next ten years abusing myself only to look big and freakish for those ten years, only to drop it at a certain age and hopefully not have health issues from it.

What I'm saying is, I guess I am ready to start that athletic muscular longevity stage right now, ten years ahead of time, and save myself the health issues.
I already dropped all oral use after getting bloodwork and seeing how tanked my lipids got from mild use of just anavar. I don't think orals are safe (for me) at any dose or any duration.

I already took a month off from the gym due to other issues, but I just got back in with cardio as my main focus. Planning on getting back into weights at higher reps maybe 3x per week. I just don't want to obsess over it like I used to.
I dropped a lot of weight in the last month out of the gym, eating one meal a day, and working 20 hour days. I look like a swimmer right now, but I feel amazing. Before, playing racquetball at almost 215 lbs, 5'9'' 8-10% (not huge here, but damn huge for my frame and genetics if you ask me) had me breathing like a fish out of water. Today at 190 and even leaner, I feel like I can do anything.

Without me asking, friends have said I look healthier and better, which shocked me, as I thought people were going to ask if I had gotten sick.

My long term goal is to be around 200 and absolutely shredded year round. I feel that is an awesome compromise at my height, I should be able to do that with minor AAS use, be very active, and be very healthy.

It will be nice not spending tons of loot and obsessing on these forums every day trying to find any way possible to get that extra lb. or two.

 

[hemipower]

I figure why spend the next ten years abusing myself only to look big and freakish for those ten years, only to drop it at a certain age and hopefully not have health issues from it.

What I'm saying is, I guess I am ready to start that athletic muscular longevity stage right now, ten years ahead of time, and save myself the health issues.

Smart move...waiting until it catches up to us is silly - we know we can't do this forever.

I already dropped all oral use after getting bloodwork and seeing how tanked my lipids got from mild use of just anavar. I don't think orals are safe (for me) at any dose or any duration.

Same here...even anavar messes with me so I RARELY use it but it's better than others of course.

I already took a month off from the gym due to other issues, but I just got back in with cardio as my main focus. Planning on getting back into weights at higher reps maybe 3x per week. I just don't want to obsess over it like I used to.

I am training on a 2 day split (push, pull) and doing 4 days a week and like it. 1 compound movement for each muscle group trained, with about 60% of my prior weights when I averaged 8-10 reps...now do 12-15 reps and even doing some rest/pause up to 25-30 with this weight and like it. Just to keep muscle while getting leaner and harder should be all I need.

I dropped a lot of weight in the last month out of the gym, eating one meal a day, and working 20 hour days. I look like a swimmer right now, but I feel amazing. Before, playing racquetball at almost 215 lbs, 5'9'' 8-10% (not huge here, but damn huge for my frame and genetics if you ask me) had me breathing like a fish out of water. Today at 190 and even leaner, I feel like I can do anything.

Without me asking, friends have said I look healthier and better, which shocked me, as I thought people were going to ask if I had gotten sick.

My long term goal is to be around 200 and absolutely shredded year round. I feel that is an awesome compromise at my height, I should be able to do that with minor AAS use, be very active, and be very healthy.

Absolutely! At 29 if you have some good joint integrity left, simple test/primo moderate dose can get that done! Maybe even gh. Look and feel healthier and be less obsessive...all good things. You are doing the right thing. If we are not competing then might as well back off and not abuse ourselves.

It will be nice not spending tons of loot and obsessing on these forums every day trying to find any way possible to get that extra lb. or two.

Thanks bro.
yeah this topic overall doesn't get a LOT of attention as most of the guys here are still in pursuit of them MASSIVE bodybuilder look. Personally at this point I want QUALITY muscle and functional physique...not quantity/mass. So down from near 240 lbs to 227 so far...and I'd like to be about 220 and pretty lean year round. Summer time maybe down another 5 lbs. Training is more fun and less obsessive. I'm not always looking for the next product to give me an edge and more size/strength. If I miss a meal or eat 2-3 cheat meals instead of ONE I don't panic anymore. So, it's a better life for me personally.

Very glad to see all the guys in this thread (and other similar ones) talking about health and taking care of it BEFORE it's a problem. That's just a wise decision...learning from others mistakes...we don't have time to make them all ourselves in life for sure. This doesn't mean you can't look great. Some of the physiques I admire most locally are guys about 5-10 years OLDER than me...that are just LEAN and have quality muscle that takes YEARS to develop and harden and get proportioned. Years ago I wasn't impressed unless someone was vein covered and 265 lbs lean. I still respect all the hard work that goes into that...it just isn't where I want to continue heading. My joint health, organ health, and sanity are of higher importance.
So no more orals. weekly 200-300 Test, 300-500 primo, 300 deca (once a year moderate dose), 150 tren (once a year) and 100-200 masteron are it for me AAS option wise. And only test and ONE other AAS or just test. And AI when needed, hcg most of the year, and 2-3iu gh most of the year. Basically HALF what I did previously. Makes it MUCH simpler...I can tell you the next 12 months what I am doing.

I too, feel better and have gotten a few comments about how I look healthier, more trim, fit, etc. At my biggest was 250 lbs at a hair under 5'10" so never was super massive but I was uncomfortable...being so strong was fun but not worth the pain and injuries and etc. What we are talking about here is a MUCH better fit for me. Training only 4 days a week now as opposed to 6 is GREAT! I look forward to workouts. Get in and get it done and get out.

 

[animal eater]

Thanks bro.
yeah this topic overall doesn't get a LOT of attention as most of the guys here are still in pursuit of them MASSIVE bodybuilder look. Personally at this point I want QUALITY muscle and functional physique...not quantity/mass. So down from near 240 lbs to 227 so far...and I'd like to be about 220 and pretty lean year round. Summer time maybe down another 5 lbs. Training is more fun and less obsessive. I'm not always looking for the next product to give me an edge and more size/strength. If I miss a meal or eat 2-3 cheat meals instead of ONE I don't panic anymore. So, it's a better life for me personally.

Very glad to see all the guys in this thread (and other similar ones) talking about health and taking care of it BEFORE it's a problem. That's just a wise decision...learning from others mistakes...we don't have time to make them all ourselves in life for sure. This doesn't mean you can't look great. Some of the physiques I admire most locally are guys about 5-10 years OLDER than me...that are just LEAN and have quality muscle that takes YEARS to develop and harden and get proportioned. Years ago I wasn't impressed unless someone was vein covered and 265 lbs lean. I still respect all the hard work that goes into that...it just isn't where I want to continue heading. My joint health, organ health, and sanity are of higher importance.
So no more orals. weekly 200-300 Test, 300-500 primo, 300 deca (once a year moderate dose), 150 tren (once a year) and 100-200 masteron are it for me AAS option wise. And only test and ONE other AAS or just test. And AI when needed, hcg most of the year, and 2-3iu gh most of the year. Basically HALF what I did previously. Makes it MUCH simpler...I can tell you the next 12 months what I am doing.

I too, feel better and have gotten a few comments about how I look healthier, more trim, fit, etc. At my biggest was 250 lbs at a hair under 5'10" so never was super massive but I was uncomfortable...being so strong was fun but not worth the pain and injuries and etc. What we are talking about here is a MUCH better fit for me. Training only 4 days a week now as opposed to 6 is GREAT! I look forward to workouts. Get in and get it done and get out.

Good stuff Hemi, at 43 I hear you especially about still being strong and athletic. I still lift heavy but also make sure that their is some functional ability left and I can perform well in sports outside of just lifting.So many people will pay a steep price for a pipe dream. How many of you will make a living on stage winning BB titles? Reality, not many.

I like the fact that I am on no medication, I can get a hard on anytime the wind blows and I can fit into most clothes. Life is a gift, don't blow it. Sermon over.

 

[hemipower]

I like the fact that I am on no medication, I can get a hard on anytime the wind blows and I can fit into most clothes. Life is a gift, don't blow it. Sermon over.

Thanks.
yeah - that's another thing...cleaning my closet out today of stuff that's too BIG and then going to go get a few new things. And, for once shopping won't be such a nightmare. At my current size it's still not EASY to find jeans and shirts that fit...but it used to be a nightmare. Try on a dozen things before I can find something that will work...not really FIT great but can get by. Had to buy pants waist a couple sizes larger to get it over legs/ass then was loose around waist and baggy assed...but tight on my legs.

 

[hemipower]

Monthly update for the few that are following this...there have been a LOT of posts lately about dropping to HRT doses and getting off the high dose cycles so glad to see that non-competitive guys are getting a little more focused on health at this point.

Blood test showed that my test levels with 250mg a week were very high normal (right where I want to be about 1100ng/dL) and my free test was HIGH actually thanks to 25mg of prov and stinging nettle root. Also recently read that not only does exemestane raise IGF expression but can lower shbg slightly...have not seen this elsewhere so don't quote me...but based on my free test being almost 3 times over high normal and only on 25mg prov and 1 capsule of stinging nettle...I think maybe it could be helping out there also.
Estro was high normal with blood tests 6 months or so ago, and on my last update I had recently added exemestane at 6-8mg a day and this brought me down to normal range. At this time, I am doing 12.5mg four days a week. Added in an NPP/deca blend at 1mL a week and hope to get some joint relief from this soon. Having some shoulder/elbow issues but most of the other issues (wrists, knees, etc) are much improved after taking time off, then EASING back into this slowly and with light weights.

My weight is still within 2-3 lbs of what it has been since making this change...about 227 lbs but softer looking without the masteron and on less gh...also the elevated estro levels for a month or so must have done some damage that it is taking me some time to correct and get that fat off. Also, diet has relaxed some...have been working a lot more lately and wouldn't say my diet is BAD but missing meals here and there...and doing 2-3 cheat meals a week instead of one so this is also part of the problem.

Training 4 days a week on a 3 day split and seems to be just right as far as recovery. Still almost entirely free weights...trying to keep rest periods short and reps on the higher end...12-25 per set. Slower controlled reps also.

Supplements: Still doing multivitamin, 4-6g fish oil a day, a quality blended protein, and liver/organ cleanse. mucuna pruriens a few days a wk, and melatonin when needed for sleep. I have been sleeping harder lately and tough to get going in the morning...not sure why. I cut out preworkouts almost entirely and take a caffeine pill that has a few other stims in it most times before I workout (no geranium products though unless I REALLY need the speed haha). Added in some things to keep my insulin sensitivity up and also digestive enzymes.

Probably more to be said, but I need to get some sleep. Gh and melatonin time!

 

[Sean.]

Curious as to why so much Testosterone when the Male body produces 50-80mg per week? Wouldn't you be on the + side just using 100mg of Test E which would give you 70mg of test? You'd still be at your max Test wise.

 

[mich29]

very refreshing reading here