Hematocrit/hemoglobin problems (again)

[nothuman]

I should have added everything seems to be lowering so you should be gtg. As you mentioned it hasn't been long and things take time. Who knows how long everything really stays in the system for. So perhaps if you just carry on as normal and stop using beetroot your numbers maybe another few points down by your appointment in March. I don't see anything to worry about just yet. Just don't be adding in any epistane

lol no I already pawned that off to a friend after the thread I made so I don't even have it anymore.

 

[Elvia1023]

I don't drink that much these days. Just socially a couple of times a week in small amounts. I've ruled that out. I'm glad you liked that video though It was a fun night.

Well I'm sure the test have an effect but the fact that the times I've used higher doses of test didn't raise it says something to me. I am not using an AI because I don't need one except if I do a test blast, in which case I've done .5mg adex every 2 days but I haven't done this in 5 months. I use one 200mg vial weekly, so it's definitely 200mg.

I really don't think it's too worth looking into it only being slightly down right after stopping MT2 IMO. If I had to choose, I would have waited two months to get a blood test post stopping. If things are still bad in 2.5 weeks, then we can make some more finite conclusions I think.

You posted just before I had posted the above Yes looks like it's just a matter of time and not adding anything in that could alter anything. I am sure you will be fine. Although I bet your next vacation won't help matters I need to start drinking more... I drink about 4 times per year

 

[nothuman]

In addition to the beets supplement I take, I also take pomegranate extract, which could also play a role in raising it. How many of you consume pomegranates and have you noticed any correlation?

 

[emeric delczeg]

In addition to the beets supplement I take, I also take pomegranate extract, which could also play a role in raising it. How many of you consume pomegranates and have you noticed any correlation?

Usually will take about 1.5 to 3 months for your levels to drop, with out injecting 200mg test. The red blood cell typically lives roughly 3 months. After your red blood cells have turned over, your hemoglobin will be whatever it is without the testosterone.

I would suggest to lower your test to 70mg per week, (10mg every day) for 10weeks.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I was just shocked with the one beetroot pdf (which was kind of sketchy) but with that much of a hemoglobin rise...it would have accounted for a hematocrit jump of almost 8 points! Thats the difference between 48 and 56

 

[nothuman]

I was just shocked with the one beetroot pdf (which was kind of sketchy) but with that much of a hemoglobin rise...it would have accounted for a hematocrit jump of almost 8 points! Thats the difference between 48 and 56

I just looked over that PDF since I finally had time and you're right, that's crazy. I don't think I can bring myself to take the beetroot supplement again for the time being so I'm going to stop taking it. I really want this problem to get resolved so I know the root cause(s). I know Dr. Crisler says a HCT up to 55 is ok but I want to get it lower so I have some room for error (under 50).

Emeric also made the point that RBCs live in the body for 3 months so these reductions can take time.

Warlock, if you're reading this, I'm curious to know if you've had this issue since using BeetElite

 

[Massive G]

I think i might have found the culprit alongside the MT2 my friend

"One of the most common questions that surface in regards to EPO is what are some natural alternatives? Unfortunately, there are very few supplements which have been shown to increase hemoglobin or hematocrit, with the exception of beetroot. Beetroot is one of the highest natural sources of nitrate, and studies show supplementation (via beetroot juice) results in increases in haemoglobin. This effect is thought to be due to nitrate's ability to boost nitric oxide (NO) levels. It has been suggested that elevated NO availability may improve oxygen delivery to muscle tissue; resulting in greater metabolic efficiency. This is the reason that nitric oxide supplements are sometimes suggested as an alternative to EPO. Because one of nitric oxide's main roles is in the regulation of blood flow, nitric oxide supplements can be likened to EPO in that they can help improve blood flow, which inadvertently improves oxygen delivery to muscle tissue."

and

http://iosrjournals.org/iosr-jnhs/papers/vol2-issue1/C0210913.pdf?id=6977

and

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26028570

and

"Also, beetroot-treated mice displayed enhancement in the level of hematocrit and hemoglobin as well as the number of red blood cell in peripheral blood"

https://www.pubpharm.de/vufind/Record/NLM264995686

Dante do you think other NO blood boosters would produce the same rise as the beetroot in this study?

I have been taking citrulline malate about 10 grams a day and my last visit to the hematologist I had to get drained a pint as it was 57 and 19.1, I am pretty sure I was hydrated well and it was an afternoon appointment vs am like I usually have.

I have been going every 3 months and running 51 53 55 respectively - at 55 they pull off a pint and then monitor every 3 months.

I did stop hyper hydrating with glycerol, as it was giving me a lower number than what it actually was due to vascular dilution properties so maybe that played a factor, as I have seen my hematocrit blood tests drop 3-4 points when hyper-hydrated.

I always thought increasing oxygen in the blood would help stabilize RBC's vs the opposites as the case in untreated sleep apnea - RBC's are produced because of the low O2 environment like in the high altitude mountain areas where the air is thinner.

Other than my BCAA plus I will cut out the CM from my daily use.

 

[nothuman]

Dante do you think other NO blood boosters would produce the same rise as the beetroot in this study?

I have been taking citrulline malate about 10 grams a day and my last visit to the hematologist I had to get drained a pint as it was 57 and 19.1, I am pretty sure I was hydrated well and it was an afternoon appointment vs am like I usually have.

I have been going every 3 months and running 51 53 55 respectively - at 55 they pull off a pint and then monitor every 3 months.

I did stop hyper hydrating with glycerol, as it was giving me a lower number than what it actually was due to vascular dilution properties so maybe that played a factor, as I have seen my hematocrit blood tests drop 3-4 points when hyper-hydrated.

I always thought increasing oxygen in the blood would help stabilize RBC's vs the opposites as the case in untreated sleep apnea - RBC's are produced because of the low O2 environment like in the high altitude mountain areas where the air is thinner.

Other than my BCAA plus I will cut out the CM from my daily use.

I was literally wondering the same as I have been doing things in order to boost NO. I also take pomegranate extract from Life Extension and drink lots of Apple Cider Vinegar and I'm wondering if those are raising it too.

 

[chainheart]

someone page Stewie.

i take about 6 grams of citrulline malate daily for last eight months. in years past i would only take it on squat and deadlift days. i never saw much difference in hematocrit labs from back then or in recent blood work.

 

[nothuman]

someone page Stewie.

i take about 6 grams of citrulline malate daily for last eight months. in years past i would only take it on squat and deadlift days. i never saw much difference in hematocrit labs from back then or in recent blood work.

Yea I've used that for a while and haven't noticed a difference really.

I'm trying to remember what I added since the time my hematocrit was 46 in September 2015 while I was on 450mg test. I know back then, I wasn't taking beets, ACV, and pomegranate. I had only just begun using MT2 at that time. My diet was only 2400 calories daily, and it's a lot more now because I don't feel like starving. I was donating blood every 8 weeks, but I have been recently too and it hasn't mattered much.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante do you think other NO blood boosters would produce the same rise as the beetroot in this study?

I have been taking citrulline malate about 10 grams a day and my last visit to the hematologist I had to get drained a pint as it was 57 and 19.1, I am pretty sure I was hydrated well and it was an afternoon appointment vs am like I usually have.

I have been going every 3 months and running 51 53 55 respectively - at 55 they pull off a pint and then monitor every 3 months.

I did stop hyper hydrating with glycerol, as it was giving me a lower number than what it actually was due to vascular dilution properties so maybe that played a factor, as I have seen my hematocrit blood tests drop 3-4 points when hyper-hydrated.

I always thought increasing oxygen in the blood would help stabilize RBC's vs the opposites as the case in untreated sleep apnea - RBC's are produced because of the low O2 environment like in the high altitude mountain areas where the air is thinner.

Other than my BCAA plus I will cut out the CM from my daily use.

I dont think its the citrulline malate...Ive never seen anything while studying suggesting that higher levels of it also raise hemoglobin. In fact that was kind of the route i was looking into yesterday (NO route) when i came across the beetroot stuff....which I still think is kind of shaky science but i wanted to present it to nonhuman anyway.

My intuition is telling me this. Nonhumans hematocrit has gone up because of the MT2. Along with that is a couple of facts. Virtually across the board every bodybuilders hematocrit and hemoglobin go up with age. You can see that in this very forum. Guys in their 20's use a bunch of stuff and their hematocrit is 48-52. Guys in their 30's show their bloodwork and the hematocrit is higher and guys on TRT in their 40's and 50's really have to watch their hematocrit. Its all wrapped up in DHT among other factors but the higher DHT levels really seems to bring this on.

I am guessing and theorizing but I bet people who use dutasteride and finasteride probably dont have to worry about hematocrit levels much. Ive seen that in my own bloodwork when i have had DHT levels measured that when the DHT levels were really high, the hematocrit and hemoglobin were higher. My hematocrit for a few years now has been 48-49 and thats with about 3 full panel bloodworks a year. Ive had it tested when i was fully cleaned out for months years back and it was 48-49 then so thats pretty much my baseline. I dumped a bunch of supplements i normally used (for prostate) in late 2016 and grabbed a bunch of new ones because i wanted to experiment. I went in for bloodwork in december and was shocked that my hematocrit was 54 after being sub 50's for years. I reversed path and went back to the old prostate supplements that i felt had inhibited DHT and my hematocrit was 49 again a couple weeks ago. I cannot use finasteride or dutasteride and refuse to because it gives me awful sexual side effects. But that is my theory anyway on nonhuman....that the MT2 is the main culprit but he might be taking a supplement or compound that is tremendously increasing his DHT levels or he is not using a compound or supplement that could inhibit his DHT levels somewhat.....the beetroot thing? yea it surprised me but i think i would find more of a hemoglobin/hematocrit rise in all that i studied besides some shaky Indian studies and some rat studies. So i think this is MT2 and a DHT situation to be honest

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Thats funny...I punch in red blood cells DHT to show you guys the link of how DHT drives hematocrit upward and the first link is exactly what i was theorizing about

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02548117

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

https://www.pubfacts.com/detail/255...ated-with-Testosterone-Induced-Erythrocytosis

There is a solution for this for you Nonhuman and its probably going to be thru DIM or IC3 or an alike compound

 

[nothuman]

My intuition is telling me this. Nonhumans hematocrit has gone up because of the MT2. Along with that is a couple of facts. Virtually across the board every bodybuilders hematocrit and hemoglobin go up with age. You can see that in this very forum. Guys in their 20's use a bunch of stuff and their hematocrit is 48-52. Guys in their 30's show their bloodwork and the hematocrit is higher and guys on TRT in their 40's and 50's really have to watch their hematocrit. Its all wrapped up in DHT among other factors but the higher DHT levels really seems to bring this on.

This seems to be exactly what is happening to me as far as getting older and having to deal with it when before it was no issue.

I am guessing and theorizing but I bet people who use dutasteride and finasteride probably dont have to worry about hematocrit levels much. Ive seen that in my own bloodwork when i have had DHT levels measured that when the DHT levels were really high, the hematocrit and hemoglobin were higher. My hematocrit for a few years now has been 48-49 and thats with about 3 full panel bloodworks a year. Ive had it tested when i was fully cleaned out for months years back and it was 48-49 then so thats pretty much my baseline. I dumped a bunch of supplements i normally used (for prostate) in late 2016 and grabbed a bunch of new ones because i wanted to experiment. I went in for bloodwork in december and was shocked that my hematocrit was 54 after being sub 50's for years. I reversed path and went back to the old prostate supplements that i felt had inhibited DHT and my hematocrit was 49 again a couple weeks ago. I cannot use finasteride or dutasteride and refuse to because it gives me awful sexual side effects. But that is my theory anyway on nonhuman....that the MT2 is the main culprit but he might be taking a supplement or compound that is tremendously increasing his DHT levels or he is not using a compound or supplement that could inhibit his DHT levels somewhat.....the beetroot thing? yea it surprised me but i think i would find more of a hemoglobin/hematocrit rise in all that i studied besides some shaky Indian studies and some rat studies. So i think this is MT2 and a DHT situation to be honest

This is excellent information. I had no idea about DHT. What is the prostate supplement you removed when it went down? It sounds like I need to buy this immediately.

https://www.pubfacts.com/detail/255...ated-with-Testosterone-Induced-Erythrocytosis

There is a solution for this for you Nonhuman and its probably going to be thru DIM or IC3 or an alike compound

I found a product that contains both. Think I should pull the trigger? It says it was made in a GMP facility on the back label. I'll go two caps a day and I should receive it Friday.
https://www.amazon.com/Seeking-Heal...88396983&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=ic3+supplement


I also sent an email to HumanN who makes the beets product and asked if they knew of any correlation with hemoglobin. I doubt I'll get a good answer but I figured might as well.

 

[nothuman]

I think this contains more pure DIM than the other one I linked. But no I3C

https://www.amazon.com/DIM-BioPerin...qid=1488398234&sr=1-4&keywords=dim+supplement

 

[nothuman]

I ended up buying both DIM and I3C as standalone supplements. It feels weird taking women's supplements

 

[warlock]

I just looked over that PDF since I finally had time and you're right, that's crazy. I don't think I can bring myself to take the beetroot supplement again for the time being so I'm going to stop taking it. I really want this problem to get resolved so I know the root cause(s). I know Dr. Crisler says a HCT up to 55 is ok but I want to get it lower so I have some room for error (under 50).

Emeric also made the point that RBCs live in the body for 3 months so these reductions can take time.

Warlock, if you're reading this, I'm curious to know if you've had this issue since using BeetElite

I just sent you a pm. I have not read the links Dante posted, but I will when I have time.

I have been using elite beets for about 3 years now. I had issues with hematocrit 3 years ago from cycling, but after I got my crit levels down (it took some time) and being on TRT, my hematocrit seems to be holding just fine. I have donated blood here and there, but not in a long time. My last blood work was done in December and both the hematocrit and hemoglobin were in perfect range.

I take 1 scoop of beets daily.

 

[nothuman]

I just sent you a pm. I have not read the links Dante posted, but I will when I have time.



I have been using elite beets for about 3 years now. I had issues with hematocrit 3 years ago from cycling, but after I got my crit levels down (it took some time) and being on TRT, my hematocrit seems to be holding just fine. I have donated blood here and there, but not in a long time. My last blood work was done in December and both the hematocrit and hemoglobin were in perfect range.



I take 1 scoop of beets daily.

So I know we are all different and react differently to the same things but the fact you don't have this issue with the same beers product needs to be taken into consideration

 

[Knight9]

I dont think its the citrulline malate...Ive never seen anything while studying suggesting that higher levels of it also raise hemoglobin. In fact that was kind of the route i was looking into yesterday (NO route) when i came across the beetroot stuff....which I still think is kind of shaky science but i wanted to present it to nonhuman anyway.

My intuition is telling me this. Nonhumans hematocrit has gone up because of the MT2. Along with that is a couple of facts. Virtually across the board every bodybuilders hematocrit and hemoglobin go up with age. You can see that in this very forum. Guys in their 20's use a bunch of stuff and their hematocrit is 48-52. Guys in their 30's show their bloodwork and the hematocrit is higher and guys on TRT in their 40's and 50's really have to watch their hematocrit. Its all wrapped up in DHT among other factors but the higher DHT levels really seems to bring this on.

I am guessing and theorizing but I bet people who use dutasteride and finasteride probably dont have to worry about hematocrit levels much. Ive seen that in my own bloodwork when i have had DHT levels measured that when the DHT levels were really high, the hematocrit and hemoglobin were higher. My hematocrit for a few years now has been 48-49 and thats with about 3 full panel bloodworks a year. Ive had it tested when i was fully cleaned out for months years back and it was 48-49 then so thats pretty much my baseline. I dumped a bunch of supplements i normally used (for prostate) in late 2016 and grabbed a bunch of new ones because i wanted to experiment. I went in for bloodwork in december and was shocked that my hematocrit was 54 after being sub 50's for years. I reversed path and went back to the old prostate supplements that i felt had inhibited DHT and my hematocrit was 49 again a couple weeks ago. I cannot use finasteride or dutasteride and refuse to because it gives me awful sexual side effects. But that is my theory anyway on nonhuman....that the MT2 is the main culprit but he might be taking a supplement or compound that is tremendously increasing his DHT levels or he is not using a compound or supplement that could inhibit his DHT levels somewhat.....the beetroot thing? yea it surprised me but i think i would find more of a hemoglobin/hematocrit rise in all that i studied besides some shaky Indian studies and some rat studies. So i think this is MT2 and a DHT situation to be honest

Great summation. What prostate supps were removed and what did you go to? And what have you gone back to?

Is boron still in your arsenal?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[emeric delczeg]

I just sent you a pm. I have not read the links Dante posted, but I will when I have time.

I have been using elite beets for about 3 years now. I had issues with hematocrit 3 years ago from cycling, but after I got my crit levels down (it took some time) and being on TRT, my hematocrit seems to be holding just fine. I have donated blood here and there, but not in a long time. My last blood work was done in December and both the hematocrit and hemoglobin were in perfect range.

I take 1 scoop of beets daily.

The beet it will not increase your cell count. Men produce between 3mg and 10mg of testosterone per day with 4% being converted to dihydrotesterone. So by lowering your test injections to 70mg per week for 2 to 3 months it will bring your levels to normal. I have been telling people that blasting should be no longer than 8 week, following with a 8 weeks cruse on 70mg per week.