How to maximize fat loss and inhibit muscle loss best with clenbuterol and fasting?

[rollerghost]

My goal is now to loose fat and I started water fast along with clen. So I have now been fasting a total of 8 days and drank only water, green tea and recently little bit coconut water (to get some potassium because it was very low, propably because of clen). Protein has been zero except after gym/resistance training I took one time 40g of casein because I felt muscle protein breakdown was too much unopposed (prolonged muscle pain).

My plan is to continue fasting maybe 1-2 days more or maybe one week more. I have previously fasted 21 days only on water and that was little bit too much regarding muscle loss.

On the other hand, in my experience body supercompensates muscle building processes after fast (greatly decreased myostatin, mTor overdrive etc.) and fat loss continues to be very high when you start eating again; body is very sensitive to nutrients and consequently muscle/lean tissue protein accrual/building will be very high and will use practically all energy and nutrients you eat. I have also muscle memory as I have long training history (allmost 20 years) and weight has been at max. over 110-115kg or 240-250lbs.

I take niacin 1,5g+arginine+lysine+some propranolol&bisoprolol before bed to temporarily inhibit fat loss and increase growth hormone levels during night. Then again morning/day I use this adrenergic stimulus to burn those fats released and this has been working very well. Fat is melting daily. Also muscle loss is very minimal; I walk a lot and try to do some resistance training 2-3 days a week to keep muscle anabolic signalling as high as possible and so muscle loss as minimal as possible. I use also testosterone little more than trt dose.

I was thinking about adding t3 but I think that it might start to burn too much muscles and lean tissue as during prolonged fast body automatically makes more reverse t3 to inhibit muscle breakdown.

I cannot get growth hormone. I might get Mk-677. But that would also inhibit fat loss a little bit. Peptides I cannot get at this time. On the other hand, during fasting growth hormone anyways go to as high as to be equal to at least 4-6IU of growth hormone and with niacin it should be more close to 8-10IU. At least synthetic GH at dose 12IU will hit max. Value of about 30ng/ml and IM dose of 30IU will hit 60ng/ml and niacin even without fasting can create a spike of 20-25ng/ml and during fast that would be even higher (that was measured in fed state). So that increased growth hormone secretion + ketone bhb very well preserve muscle mass in my experience (and according to studies) during fast so maybe extra growth hormone on top of that would not be a much of benefit as there should be plenty of it allready.

Greentea also should protect muscle tissue and increase fat loss. I drink it a lot and use extracts. I also use high dose vitamin c and many other herbals with supposed benefits to protecting muscles too.

Anyway, do you have some supplement (or other) suggestions how to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss even more with this clen and fasting without taxing kidneys&liver too much? Should I maybe increase test dose even more? My goal is to first burn fat off to a level 5-8% and after that I will build back lost muscle + some more with test, anavar and dbol. I am hesitant to add dbol and anavar now during fast as liver and kidneys are allready stressed and glutathione levels propably low even though I eat NAC, TMG and other supps that help liver.

But maybe adding more testosterone could inhibit muscle loss even more and enchance fat loss without stressing too much internal organs? Any other things that I might consider?

Thank you for possible answers and suggestions.

 

[qbkilla]

In general AAS, ephedrine, all that stuff would help. I personally wouldn't do extended fasting if your worried about muscle loss. A simple defect would work combined with intermittent fasting, I think days in end fasting will cost you muscle even training and using AAS

 

[pesty4077]

If you don't think you will lose muscle when starving yourself, you are mistaken. Then you think walking will build this muscle back. Then on top of all that, you want to take a bunch of drugs to compensate.

 

[Sully1234]

I'm not usually one to say this as I dont but... post pictures then let's talk about this protocol.

 

[bbxtreme]

My goal is now to loose fat and I started water fast along with clen. So I have now been fasting a total of 8 days and drank only water, green tea and recently little bit coconut water (to get some potassium because it was very low, propably because of clen). Protein has been zero except after gym/resistance training I took one time 40g of casein because I felt muscle protein breakdown was too much unopposed (prolonged muscle pain).

My plan is to continue fasting maybe 1-2 days more or maybe one week more. I have previously fasted 21 days only on water and that was little bit too much regarding muscle loss.

On the other hand, in my experience body supercompensates muscle building processes after fast (greatly decreased myostatin, mTor overdrive etc.) and fat loss continues to be very high when you start eating again; body is very sensitive to nutrients and consequently muscle/lean tissue protein accrual/building will be very high and will use practically all energy and nutrients you eat. I have also muscle memory as I have long training history (allmost 20 years) and weight has been at max. over 110-115kg or 240-250lbs.

I take niacin 1,5g+arginine+lysine+some propranolol&bisoprolol before bed to temporarily inhibit fat loss and increase growth hormone levels during night. Then again morning/day I use this adrenergic stimulus to burn those fats released and this has been working very well. Fat is melting daily. Also muscle loss is very minimal; I walk a lot and try to do some resistance training 2-3 days a week to keep muscle anabolic signalling as high as possible and so muscle loss as minimal as possible. I use also testosterone little more than trt dose.

I was thinking about adding t3 but I think that it might start to burn too much muscles and lean tissue as during prolonged fast body automatically makes more reverse t3 to inhibit muscle breakdown.

I cannot get growth hormone. I might get Mk-677. But that would also inhibit fat loss a little bit. Peptides I cannot get at this time. On the other hand, during fasting growth hormone anyways go to as high as to be equal to at least 4-6IU of growth hormone and with niacin it should be more close to 8-10IU. At least synthetic GH at dose 12IU will hit max. Value of about 30ng/ml and IM dose of 30IU will hit 60ng/ml and niacin even without fasting can create a spike of 20-25ng/ml and during fast that would be even higher (that was measured in fed state). So that increased growth hormone secretion + ketone bhb very well preserve muscle mass in my experience (and according to studies) during fast so maybe extra growth hormone on top of that would not be a much of benefit as there should be plenty of it allready.

Greentea also should protect muscle tissue and increase fat loss. I drink it a lot and use extracts. I also use high dose vitamin c and many other herbals with supposed benefits to protecting muscles too.

Anyway, do you have some supplement (or other) suggestions how to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss even more with this clen and fasting without taxing kidneys&liver too much? Should I maybe increase test dose even more? My goal is to first burn fat off to a level 5-8% and after that I will build back lost muscle + some more with test, anavar and dbol. I am hesitant to add dbol and anavar now during fast as liver and kidneys are allready stressed and glutathione levels propably low even though I eat NAC, TMG and other supps that help liver.

But maybe adding more testosterone could inhibit muscle loss even more and enchance fat loss without stressing too much internal organs? Any other things that I might consider?

Thank you for possible answers and suggestions.

Why not just do a PSMF diet instead? It would accomplish what you are trying to do if I read your post correctly.

You can’t cut all calories, especially protein and expect to maintain or retain muscle. No drug even grams of tren could do that nor would you ever want to. Adding them and clen on-top of a pure water fast is asking for trouble IMO.

Gear and supplements don’t maintain muscle- protein does. Even if you drank EAA’s it wouldn’t be enough.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Personally, I would do Lyle McDonalds RFL here which is basically as protein sparing modified fast, and glycogen depletion workouts. It is very effective, aggressive, and short. There is also and extreme version that is more aggressive. The fat mobilization vs muscle catabolism ratio during a true fast will depend on how much fat you have to lose.

You could also do yohimbine hcl + caff + tyrosine fasted cardio.

Don’t starve yourself of protein if you want to preserve muscle tissue.

 

[qbkilla]

Personally, I would do Lyle McDonalds RFL here which is basically as protein sparing modified fast, and glycogen depletion workouts. It is very effective, aggressive, and short. There is also and extreme version that is more aggressive. The fat mobilization vs muscle catabolism ratio during a true fast will depend on how much fat you have to lose.

You could also do yohimbine hcl + caff + tyrosine fasted cardio.

Don’t starve yourself of protein if you want to preserve muscle tissue.

What does the tyrosine do?

 

[juggy38]

L tyrosine is the building block and precursor to dopamine

 

[emeric delczeg]

If you don't think you will lose muscle when starving yourself, you are mistaken. Then you think walking will build this muscle back. Then on top of all that, you want to take a bunch of drugs to compensate.

For those that are fasting, fasting can overexpress of FGF21. FGF21 does not contribute to muscle homeostasis in basal conditions in terms of fibre type distribution, fibre size, and muscle force. In contrast, FGF21 is required for fasting-induced muscle atrophy and weakness.

 

[trenned]

I'm not usually one to say this as I dont but... post pictures then let's talk about this protocol.

This thread is awfully similar to one on another board where someone wanted to water fast on tren. Someone who had never seen the outline of his abs and looked like he didn't even lift (just obese). I hope this isn't OP or similar.

When I tried IF I could tell my metabolism was slowing down considerably and I could actually eat less calories. I can imagine what actual prolonged fasting does to your metabolism. There are no quick fixes to being obese.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Why do any of this…PSMF with the Lyle McDonald principles.

 

[rollerghost]

Thank you for resoponses.

If you don't think you will lose muscle when starving yourself, you are mistaken. Then you think walking will build this muscle back. Then on top of all that, you want to take a bunch of drugs to compensate.

No, I do not believe like that. I know some muscle will be burnt. But I agree walking might not be the best. Maybe only gym couple times a week.

I'm not usually one to say this as I dont but... post pictures then let's talk about this protocol.

This thread is awfully similar to one on another board where someone wanted to water fast on tren. Someone who had never seen the outline of his abs and looked like he didn't even lift (just obese). I hope this isn't OP or similar.

.

I am not really obese at all and have not talked&asked about this before. The thing is, that I have history of bodybuilding/strength training and was in my best at quite low body fat at about 240lbs/110kg. Broblem was that at some years ago I got interested in spiritual things but eventually my search and study of God/consciousness caused me quite severe depression for two years. That caused me to stop training totally, lost motivation to eat and do things and was in sickleave. So I lost both muscle and fat very much because of that, little bit more muscle, but in no way I am now obese but I am just a skinnier and little bit fatter version of my old self at about (weight before this fast) 85kg/190lbs and about 15% bodyfat (at 6 feet). So when I started to recover from my depression I got again motivation and energy to start training and eating but after training for a while I just decided I need to loose this extra fat first asap (partly because of health reasons) and then build muscle. I wanted to do it also because I wanted to get rid off sick cells/possible cancer cells and clean my body and lower my blood pressure etc (which actually went down to 120/72 after starting this fast even though I stopped all my three blood pressure medicines except bisoprolol&propranolol at night). But no obesity here.

Why not just do a PSMF diet instead? It would accomplish what you are trying to do if I read your post correctly.

Good advice. I might change to that in few days.

Personally, I would do Lyle McDonalds RFL here which is basically as protein sparing modified fast, and glycogen depletion workouts. It is very effective, aggressive, and short. There is also and extreme version that is more aggressive.

Yes, I might start that (or PSMF) in few days. What is that more extreme version like?

And thanks for reminding me yohimbine. That might be a good addition. Does topical yohimbine skin cream work? I think I will also increase test dose and see what it does in these conditions. Doesn't testosterone (or AAS in general) increase adrenergic receptor sensitivity in tissues? So increasing dose might boost effectivines of clen and speed up fat loss and inhibit muscle breakdown more and body would be forced to breakdown more other useless tissues including senescent/pathological cells?

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

What does the tyrosine do?

Tyrosine helps kick up the release and response to catecholamines, recommended dose when using it in a fasted cardio with yohimbine is 2g. Recommended dose of yohimbine HCL is .2mg per kg of body weight. Caggeine dose is 200mg.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thank you for resoponses.



No, I do not believe like that. I know some muscle will be burnt. But I agree walking might not be the best. Maybe only gym couple times a week.




.

I am not really obese at all and have not talked&asked about this before. The thing is, that I have history of bodybuilding/strength training and was in my best at quite low body fat at about 240lbs/110kg. Broblem was that at some years ago I got interested in spiritual things but eventually my search and study of God/consciousness caused me quite severe depression for two years. That caused me to stop training totally, lost motivation to eat and do things and was in sickleave. So I lost both muscle and fat very much because of that, little bit more muscle, but in no way I am now obese but I am just a skinnier and little bit fatter version of my old self at about (weight before this fast) 85kg/190lbs and about 15% bodyfat (at 6 feet). So when I started to recover from my depression I got again motivation and energy to start training and eating but after training for a while I just decided I need to loose this extra fat first asap (partly because of health reasons) and then build muscle. I wanted to do it also because I wanted to get rid off sick cells/possible cancer cells and clean my body and lower my blood pressure etc (which actually went down to 120/72 after starting this fast even though I stopped all my three blood pressure medicines except bisoprolol&propranolol at night). But no obesity here.



Good advice. I might change to that in few days.



Yes, I might start that (or PSMF) in few days. What is that more extreme version like?

And thanks for reminding me yohimbine. That might be a good addition. Does topical yohimbine skin cream work? I think I will also increase test dose and see what it does in these conditions. Doesn't testosterone (or AAS in general) increase adrenergic receptor sensitivity in tissues? So increasing dose might boost effectivines of clen and speed up fat loss and inhibit muscle breakdown more and body would be forced to breakdown more other useless tissues including senescent/pathological cells?

If it’s optimal health you’re seeking I would do a PSMF over a water fast any day of the week. So much more benefit.

You could add some alpha yohimbine and carnitine (injectable ideally) before your workouts as well. It’s extremely effective.

 

[rollerghost]

If it’s optimal health you’re seeking I would do a PSMF over a water fast any day of the week. So much more benefit.

You could add some alpha yohimbine and carnitine (injectable ideally) before your workouts as well. It’s extremely effective.

Problem I see with that approach is that it will raise some igf-1, insulin etc. and keep systemic mTor activation quite high which then partly goes against my plan of trying to eradicate those cancerous and malignant cells.

I was hoping to find supplements, approaches or techniques to only activate anabolic/anticatabolic signalling in muscles while inhibiting systemic anbolic signalling. But this is allready day 9 of fasting and today I will go to train to gym again and I guess it might be time to switch to that PSMF after today's training.

And is that injectable L-carnitine significantly more effective than eatable? Or is the health reason the main benefit
(no toxic gastric metabolites)?

 

[bbxtreme]

Problem I see with that approach is that it will raise some igf-1, insulin etc. and keep systemic mTor activation quite high which then partly goes against my plan of trying to eradicate those cancerous and malignant cells.

I was hoping to find supplements, approaches or techniques to only activate anabolic/anticatabolic signalling in muscles while inhibiting systemic anbolic signalling. But this is allready day 9 of fasting and today I will go to train to gym again and I guess it might be time to switch to that PSMF after today's training.

And is that injectable L-carnitine significantly more effective than eatable? Or is the health reason the main benefit
(no toxic gastric metabolites)?

Maybe I misunderstood the post, but do you have active cancer or are you just trying to protect against it? Keep in mind optimal ranges of HGH and IGF are good and have immune boosting benefits. It’s excess IGF that could lead to issues long term. Which would usually only be if you’re using IGF itself and “maybe” high doses of HGH which even then you could possibly argue either side.

Remember the value and importance of muscle in health and the immune system as well. Hence a water fast may offset the other items you’ve mentioned.

There’s a great thread on here “my fascination with injectable l-carnitine” that I would look up, and others on it as well.

 

[rollerghost]

Maybe I misunderstood the post, but do you have active cancer or are you just trying to protect against it? Keep in mind optimal ranges of HGH and IGF are good and have immune boosting benefits. It’s excess IGF that could lead to issues long term. Which would usually only be if you’re using IGF itself and “maybe” high doses of HGH which even then you could possibly argue either side.

Remember the value and importance of muscle in health and the immune system as well. Hence a water fast may offset the other items you’ve mentioned.

There’s a great thread on here “my fascination with injectable l-carnitine” that I would look up, and others on it as well.

Good points you have, I agree.

No, I do not have active cancer but I have used last 20 years on/off different anabolic substances like IGF-1 lr3, plenty of peptides, MK-677 + steroids and many other research chemicals and many other questionable substances. I have also some chronic GERD/heartburn and esophagus feels many times inflamed so that is part reason I need to do quite regularly IF (16/8) and also sometimes longer fasts as I've found it to be best remedy for it. I do not want to develop Barret's esophagus etc.

Today I decided to take 40g of whey and two bananas after my workout as it was very taxing to muscles now after 9 days of fast. But I think I will continue this fast at least five days and then train again with niacin (1,5g) as I want to really check how high GH peak value comes after that. I mean I'm going to get lab results. I hope I could get mk-677 also added on to that combo before the tests.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Well this has my vote for oddest thread in the last 6mo at least

 

[Sully1234]

Well this has my vote for oddest thread in the last 6mo at least

He changed my name to Sally.

 

[b-boy]

He changed my name to Sally.

Wow, I just noticed that....LOL WTF?