How to maximize fat loss and inhibit muscle loss best with clenbuterol and fasting?

[SouthernMuscle]

Be sure to post up a pic after you finish doing whatever it is you’re doing so we can see the validity of these theories…….

 

[pesty4077]

View attachment 183006
Be sure to post up a pic after you finish doing whatever it is you’re doing so we can see the validity of these theories…….

And a before.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

And a before.

That’d be nice but I’m not optimistic for either

 

[rollerghost]

And a before.

Well, I haven't taken pictures of myself for a long time and forgot to take before this fast. And my computer is broken where most of my photos are so I have only two photos on my phone actually to show my condition before any of my fasts (and depression which kept me bed ridden for allmost a year and I didn't train and ate very little as I explained in previous posts..). Sorry I don't have any better pics atm. Need to get new computer first.

So my weight is lower now but fat percentage has been all the time about same as in these pictures. Weight in pics was about 105kg/230-235lbs if I remember correctly but before this current fast my weight was 85kg/187lbs.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Well, I haven't taken pictures of myself for a long time and forgot to take before this fast. And my computer is broken where most of my photos are so I have only two photos on my phone actually to show my condition before any of my fasts (and depression which kept me bed ridden for allmost a year and I didn't train and ate very little as I explained in previous posts..). Sorry I don't have any better pics atm. Need to get new computer first.

So my weight is lower now but fat percentage has been all the time about same as in these pictures. Weight in pics was about 105kg/230-235lbs if I remember correctly but before this current fast my weight was 85kg/187lbs.

Congrats on the arm

 

[rollerghost]

Congrats on the arm

Thank you

 

[bbxtreme]

Yes, it was typo accident.

Anyway, I started to think that actually combining low dose (or micro doses) of beta-antagonists with clenbuterol might prevent tolerance build up and extend the time it works effectively. Has anyone tried?

As it is quite universal phenomenon (at least to my limited knowledge) that substances at about 1/10th of their minimal therapeutic dose (either agonist or antagonist) exhibit reverse actions and act opposite to what they are mento to. Like ex. low dose or ultra low dose naltrexone increases opioid receptor sensitivity and pain tolerance and same with flumazenil regarding benzodiazepine receptors. And ex. Morphine if given micro doses actually worsens pain and works more like antagonist. Same principle seems to apply to many other substances or in general biological systems.

Also there is ex. Oxytrex which combains ultra low dose naltrexone with oxycontin and that combination effectively prevents tolerance development and agonist actions of oxy remain constant without need to increase dosage.

So if this is truly some universal phenomenom in biological systems then one could speculate that by using low doses or ultra low doses of beta2-antagonist concomitantly with clenbuterol or other beta-agonist it could possibly prevent tolerance development by sensitizing receptors enough without counteracting the effects of agonist to any significant degree.

I have used bisoprolol and propranolol with clenbuterol now and at least my doses of clen have been the same since I started it and it seems that there is no need to increase dosage because it is still working very well at the same dose after two weeks of use.

Maybe something like 0.1-1mg propranolol used 3-6 times a day could upregulate adrenergic receptors enough to prevent tolerance build up to agonist without inhibiting agonistic actions to any significant degree (like it is with flumazenil or ultra low dose naltrexone combined with agonists/opioids or benzos when they actually enhance the effectiviness of those agonist compounds).

At least beta-antagonists at normal therapeutic doses upregulate receptors in ex. heart tissue so at least in theory one could suppose ultra low doses does that too but without the inhibiting effects to agonistic ligands. Have to try this more and play with different doses of beta-antagonists with clen to find out if this adaptation and sensitazing of the system with ultra low doses truly is the case with adrenergic system too.

IMO this is a VERY thin “theory” that is playing with fire.

Going off your thought process is like taking benzos to offset adderall. And no I’m not trying to break the rules and talk about rec drugs. I’m only pointing out the dangers of what you are trying to propose by offsetting clen with beta blockers. Two things that have direct impact on the heart.

Don’t take either and focus on your method of fasting, diet and cardio. It sounds like you’re trying to get into “biohacking” a word I personally dislike. You don’t do that by crossing opposing meds IMO.

Hope it works out for you. Everyone has to try their own thing. This is just one I wouldn’t personally ever consider.

 

[rollerghost]

IMO this is a VERY thin “theory” that is playing with fire.

Going off your thought process is like taking benzos to offset adderall. And no I’m not trying to break the rules and talk about rec drugs. I’m only pointing out the dangers of what you are trying to propose by offsetting clen with beta blockers. Two things that have direct impact on the heart.

I appreciate your comment but that was not exactly my point. My native language is not also english so that might also affect my understanding so that I misunderstood you, but sorry if that is the case.

My main thought was not to offset clen's effects but to prevent tolerance development to its effects so that you could continue it much longer with same efficacy/with same dose. Secondary thing was this use by night to offset some of the stimulating/fat releasing effects during night to lower FFA with niacin to boost GH and aid sleep. Personally I don't see any major danger there as they oppose each other and with right dosage the net effect should be zero. Beta-antagonist are given as a first aid for clenbuterol overdose so it should be actually very safe and correct medical approach.

Case report and review of clenbuterol cardiac toxicity

Clenbuterol is an oral β2-agonist utilized as an illicit substance for performance-enhancement or weight loss. We report a case of a 23-year-old male …

www.sciencedirect.com

The point was trying to use (find) such a micro dose of antagonist to occupy only tiny amount of receptors for short time periods so that the net effect would be enchancement of adrenergic agonism and/or preventing tolerance build up. Because at least in theory it seems it should work like that. Agonists downregulates and antagonists/inverse agonists upregulate and finding the right balance between them like they have found with some other agonist/antagonist have prevented tolerance development and reduced the need to increase dosages by maintaining efficacy. So maybe same principle could work with adrenergic system too? I mean why not?

So I was hoping I could extend the time you can effectively use clen with smaller doses without diminishing effects.. not to offset its effects.

But yes, I agree with your other points. I will focus on my diet and training more and will take a break from clen and start eating today and end my fast. This two weeks seems to be quite maximum time to fast without significantly downregulating metabolism and activate serious starvation mode with more lean tissue loss which I do not want.

But in all honesty, I have to say that fat has melted away at significant amounts and lean tissue loss has been very very minimal. Testosterone and clen have propably helped a lot to maintain lean tissue. Now I will start PSMF diet and normal training again and will add dbol (10mg)+anavar (10mg) and Mk-677 (25mg) and continue my testosterone (double trt dose) and I bet (from my earlier experiments) that lean tissue will be build back very rapidly and efficiently like it was build in teenage years. I like this method very much.

 

[bbxtreme]

I appreciate your comment but that was not exactly my point. My native language is not also english so that might also affect my understanding so that I misunderstood you, but sorry if that is the case.

My main thought was not to offset clen's effects but to prevent tolerance development to its effects so that you could continue it much longer with same efficacy/with same dose. Secondary thing was this use by night to offset some of the stimulating/fat releasing effects during night to lower FFA with niacin to boost GH and aid sleep. Personally I don't see any major danger there as they oppose each other and with right dosage the net effect should be zero. Beta-antagonist are given as a first aid for clenbuterol overdose so it should be actually very safe and correct medical approach.

Case report and review of clenbuterol cardiac toxicity

Clenbuterol is an oral β2-agonist utilized as an illicit substance for performance-enhancement or weight loss. We report a case of a 23-year-old male …

www.sciencedirect.com

The point was trying to use (find) such a micro dose of antagonist to occupy only tiny amount of receptors for short time periods so that the net effect would be enchancement of adrenergic agonism and/or preventing tolerance build up. Because at least in theory it seems it should work like that. Agonists downregulates and antagonists/inverse agonists upregulate and finding the right balance between them like they have found with some other agonist/antagonist have prevented tolerance development and reduced the need to increase dosages by maintaining efficacy. So maybe same principle could work with adrenergic system too? I mean why not?

So I was hoping I could extend the time you can effectively use clen with smaller doses without diminishing effects.. not to offset its effects.

But yes, I agree with your other points. I will focus on my diet and training more and will take a break from clen and start eating today and end my fast. This two weeks seems to be quite maximum time to fast without significantly downregulating metabolism and activate serious starvation mode with more lean tissue loss which I do not want.

But in all honesty, I have to say that fat has melted away at significant amounts and lean tissue loss has been very very minimal. Testosterone and clen have propably helped a lot to maintain lean tissue. Now I will start PSMF diet and normal training again and will add dbol (10mg)+anavar (10mg) and Mk-677 (25mg) and continue my testosterone (double trt dose) and I bet (from my earlier experiments) that lean tissue will be build back very rapidly and efficiently like it was build in teenage years. I like this method very much.

If that’s your goal, that’s already been done and established for years. Ketotifen. Lol

 

[rollerghost]

If that’s your goal, that’s already been done and established for years. Ketotifen. Lol

Heh right. Yes, I actually was aware that some anti-histamine was used for this reason but didn't remember the name. I watched some video..don't remember now who the guy was but some famous bodybuilder said that it does not work for tolerance prevention (at least in his opinion what he had seen in his clients and on himself)

So because he said it doesn't work in practise I forgot the substance purposedly and started to thinking other ways.

Ketotifen actually works then and prevents tolerance?

 

[bbxtreme]

Heh right. Yes, I actually was aware that some anti-histamine was used for this reason but didn't remember the name. I watched some video..don't remember now who the guy was but some famous bodybuilder said that it does not work for tolerance prevention (at least in his opinion what he had seen in his clients and on himself)

So because he said it doesn't work in practise I forgot the substance purposedly and started to thinking other ways.

Ketotifen actually works then and prevents tolerance?

When it comes to clen you should use it in short term cycles IMO. The body will adapt to it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not working.

In my experience using with “real” Ketofin at bedtime can have some benefit to help you get more from it. It’s the only thing I would use to try and accomplish what you’re trying to personally.

 

[KillerStack]

I didn't see it mentioned but I read a little bit about these fasts to kill cancer cells etc. One guy talked about dry fasts also, like on the last day of the fast you don't introduce any water at all to your body - you don't shower or brush your teeth for extra autophagy and whatever else.

There was a bodybuilding guru and author, a really sharp guy who I felt went off the deep end with these fasts to cure some type of cancer in his leg. He had some type of mineral drink to use on the fasts, the only ingredient I remember was "borax" because I never heard of it before. This guy took pictures too, as I recall he claimed very little muscle loss. He was small but ripped, at least a previous anabolic steroid user.

I doubt this is the forum for these discussions because it's too complex and few are interested in reading up on it (including myself). But reading this type of thread is interesting to me. The inducing more sensitivity to drugs is interesting.

 

[b-boy]

Well this has my vote for oddest thread in the last 6mo at least

X2

 

[rollerghost]

When it comes to clen you should use it in short term cycles IMO. The body will adapt to it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not working.

In my experience using with “real” Ketofin at bedtime can have some benefit to help you get more from it. It’s the only thing I would use to try and accomplish what you’re trying to personally.

Right. I cannot get ketotifen atm so I will continue experiments and try if this propranolol at low (<10mg), very low doses (0.1-1mg), micro doses (1-100ug) and/or with nano doses (0.1-1ug) does the job of preventing tolerance development while simultaneously enhancing clen's adrenergic effects.

I got T3. I was planning to use 5-10ug three times a day (or a total of 25-50ug/d). Or how it would be best used if combining it with dbol, anavar, test and mk-677 (and clen)?

 

[bbxtreme]

Right. I cannot get ketotifen atm so I will continue experiments and try if this propranolol at low (<10mg), very low doses (0.1-1mg), micro doses (1-100ug) and/or with nano doses (0.1-1ug) does the job of preventing tolerance development while simultaneously enhancing clen's adrenergic effects.

I got T3. I was planning to use 5-10ug three times a day (or a total of 25-50ug/d). Or how it would be best used if combining it with dbol, anavar, test and mk-677 (and clen)?

I personally don’t run T3 so would leave that to those here who do. I’ll only use low dose T4 and clen if needed. I’m not a fan of messing with T3 levels and the potential risk.

Side note- if you can get T3 you should easily be able to get Ketofin. Many sponsors on here carry it.

 

[rollerghost]

I personally don’t run T3 so would leave that to those here who do. I’ll only use low dose T4 and clen if needed. I’m not a fan of messing with T3 levels and the potential risk.

Side note- if you can get T3 you should easily be able to get Ketofin. Many sponsors on here carry it.

Yes okey. I would like to order but I live in Europe and I have previously had problems with customs when ordering from USA (as in my country even ketotifen needs prescription). Quite strict importing rules here unfortunately, quite ridiculous even.. like I am living in some kind of kindergarten :S

 

[bbxtreme]

Yes okey. I would like to order but I live in Europe and I have previously had problems with customs when ordering from USA (as in my country even ketotifen needs prescription). Quite strict importing rules here unfortunately, quite ridiculous even.. like I am living in some kind of kindergarten :S

Makes a lot more sense. Europe is a pain to get things in with customs. Def may want to reach out to some of the international sponsors.