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- Oct 1, 2007
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- 3,695
Did you see his cable rows sitting on the floor lol
I did not
Did you see his cable rows sitting on the floor lol
The 3 seconds of the video that i listened to talk about short erm gains and not long term health. Didn't figure there was any reason to watch more.
Genuinely curious here. How much evidence do we have on the long term implications to health of doses in that 'definitely elevated but not blasting your face off' range?
From what I can see and I may well be wrong but there isn't much out there. We know the deleterious effects of blasting your face off and uncontrolled blood pressure and the rest of it sure.
Just opening this up for discussion.
Dave Crossland talked about this multiple times on the Drugs n Stuff Podcast. He is running E-Val, a blood testing service in the UK. He has seen it on paper. Bloods just not getting back to normal baselines. Especially Hemotacrit and Red Blood Cell count being elevated all the time, and Neutrophils staying low. And blood lipids being out of range. This is just not a good thing long term.
We can't have our cake and eat it too, there are just trade-offs to be made here. I stay on 150mg, enough for me to get the good benefits, and my CBC Panel looks good, as does my Lipid Panel. So far, haven't lost muscle mass. Maintaining really doesn't seem to need much. Big But - I am not big (see avatar), so maybe it is different for mass monsters like Luki or b-boy.
Edit: And it took me a fucking lot of discussing with myself to not go on 250mg/week, thinking I would shrivel away to DYEL status over night. This was far from easy to be honest, and I still occasionally end up thinking "Hey, why not bump it up and maybe get abit more growth"
You look at Urs, and I’ve heard it directly from his mouth that his weight shoots up to the 270s on 3500 calories and 30 minutes Stepmill. What does that tell you? His body is dying to grow. It is fighting him so hard it’s damn near defying physics to grow. But he’s so irrationally stuck on staying classic he’s intentionally preventing himself from making progress. It’s insanity embodied.
Genuinely curious here. How much evidence do we have on the long term implications to health of doses in that 'definitely elevated but not blasting your face off' range?
From what I can see and I may well be wrong but there isn't much out there. We know the deleterious effects of blasting your face off and uncontrolled blood pressure and the rest of it sure.
Just opening this up for discussion.
200mg is a TRT starting point only for Anti Aging clinics in South Florida with a tandem massage therapy practice; a place where you can get a shot and then a rub-and-a-tug on your way out the door.In the comments he states 200 is a reasonable starting point and you'll likely end up at 400-600.
Mark is 47.
I decided not to put this in the TRT section...
Cardiac Hypertrophy and renal health are what you’ll have to worry long term elevated TRTs.
Somewhat agree but I think long term high blood pressure will do a lot more damage to the kidneys and heart than Test dosages over TRT.
high BP and skewed values cardio-wise from test would be the culprit IMO if anyWell yea…that’s what I was referring to. The hormone testosterone isn’t directly cytotoxic to kidneys
Right off the bat if i have to take a drug to counteract the side effects of the drug i am taking i tend to think that is the bodies way of saying i am doing something unhealthy. Course then there are the side effects of the secondary drug and on we go. When i look at guys that have taken gear for decades such as Louie Simmons i can't see where they are living well into old age. He was 75 so not bad for how he lived. I have made my decision to shave years off. I can make arguments to make myself feel better about my choices. I prefer not to shave to many decades off i hope. In my decades of reading i can't say where i have really seen anything that shows being bigger, eating more doing drugs etc. is not bad for my health. I just get the best info i can to make a informed decision for myself. Others will have their own comfort zone.Genuinely curious here. How much evidence do we have on the long term implications to health of doses in that 'definitely elevated but not blasting your face off' range?
From what I can see and I may well be wrong but there isn't much out there. We know the deleterious effects of blasting your face off and uncontrolled blood pressure and the rest of it sure.
Just opening this up for discussion.
I would say that the massive injuries Louie Simmons suffered and powerlifting into late age waere huge contributing factors to him not living well into old age. Basically his body was beat up.Right off the bat if i have to take a drug to counteract the side effects of the drug i am taking i tend to think that is the bodies way of saying i am doing something unhealthy. Course then there are the side effects of the secondary drug and on we go. When i look at guys that have taken gear for decades such as Louie Simmons i can't see where they are living well into old age. He was 75 so not bad for how he lived. I have made my decision to shave years off. I can make arguments to make myself feel better about my choices. I prefer not to shave to many decades off i hope. In my decades of reading i can't say where i have really seen anything that shows being bigger, eating more doing drugs etc. is not bad for my health. I just get the best info i can to make a informed decision for myself. Others will have their own comfort zone.
Probably worth mentioning he was fat too.I would say that the massive injuries Louie Simmons suffered and powerlifting into late age waere huge contributing factors to him not living well into old age. Basically his body was beat up.
I second that. Dude is still incredible!My goal is to age like Vince Taylor.
If having damaged muscles and joints lead to shorter life spans then i think a lot of people have definitely shortened their life span then already. Me being one of them. What gear users that are well know and have publicly stated they used far bigger doses of gear then TRT non stop for decades can you bring up? The more we can can look at the better.I would say that the massive injuries Louie Simmons suffered and powerlifting into late age waere huge contributing factors to him not living well into old age. Basically his body was beat up.
Yea I know local guys that would shoot a bunch of hydrogen peroxide, immediately if they believed it was a tear. I don't know anything about it as its been ages since I have talked to some of these guys so please no dms about it.One therapy I think came out of Westside Barbell, was they shot water into an injured muscle, just hundreds of shots, prolotherapy I think it's called actually. These fellas were nuts and injuries would not keep them down lol. Greg Panora has some stories on IG. How about prolotherapy in a torn muscle except you mix in BPC, GH, TB500, IGF-1 and whatever else you can think of? Lol.
I still remember Louie's T-nation interview where he said he'd done roids for 30 years and he never saw it hurt anyone, unlike corticosteroids. He also cautioned against creatine. Now I'VE done gear for 30 years lol.