Off TRT! Is HPTA recovery possible?

[TT]

When you cycled on and off how long did a cycle/off time typically last for? I ask bc maybe you didn't give your body enough time to recover between cycles, ie you only went off for 2-4 weeks for instance

My cycles had decent time in between. It was usually 12-16 weeks cycle than 16 week break. But later I just stayed on year round. I did 300mg of Test E and would add another compounds and blast for a month then drop everything but test, and cruise for a month. I would blast and cruise like this for 8 months a year and then I dropped my test down to 150mg a week and stay like this for 4 months or sometimes more until my bloods were in a normal range.

 

[TT]

your body is not going to recover to a good, healthy level of say 800. If you wanna try all this other nonsense herbs, trip, it is gonna cost way more than doing PROPER TRT, of 150-200mg/wk... 300mg T wk is a small cycle.

I am real and I am not looking into 800's. I want to make sure my test isn't below normal (172 now). I hope to get 400's some time.

I am still considering my further actions. And TRT is not excluded. But right now I am 80% towards no TRT.

I did 150mg/week also. I did this every year for at least 4 months and most of the time during my last 2 years of TRT. I didn't have much time to cruise/blast after my surgery 2 years ago.

Even 150mg/week and with all bloods in normal/higher normal range, I still feel better now when I am OFF completely.

 

[TT]

I would love to see some proof of this. Sure your test levels are going to look good when you are on the Clomid, HCG, etc... but after you come off them and they are out of your system then you are usually left with low T again. If his levels were supressed for 6 years, I highly doubt he will get back to what he was before.

You are right. Clomid did rise my test levels but it was art officially. After I dropped it, my test went down. From 228 to 172 in 2 months

 

[TT]

Sure maybe some people can recover to levels in the 300s, which are on the bottom end of the "normal" range, but what's the point? I'd rather be on TRT and be in the 800s than no TRT in the 300s, but that's just me.

For me its better now when I am off. My energy is through the roof. No lethargy no sleepy. Also much happier. It is weird but I don't have explanation why.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

keeping your gains has nothing to do with being healthy. its common sense that you wont hold the size on 100mg test that you held on 1000mg test:lightbulb:

just bc you "keep gains", that shouldnt dictate whether or not you cruise or go off/pct.

How is that related to what I just said? What I said was that I kept my gains with TRUE TRT i.e. 125-150mg Test per week compared to coming off completely with PCT, EVEN THOUGH my natural test levels were back to around 600. And when I was on TRT my levels were ~900 which would be plenty healthy and I kept my gains from my cycle which WAS around 1000mg.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

For me its better now when I am off. My energy is through the roof. No lethargy no sleepy. Also much happier. It is weird but I don't have explanation why.

Could be you have higher cortisol and other factors to elevated from prolonged exposure to unnatural high androgen levels.

You mentioned you would cruise with 150mg Test per week for 4 months "or longer to get your bloods back to normal"? How long did it typically take? For me even after orals included in my cycle everything is back to normal within a month or so.

 

[DK0223]

How is that related to what I just said? What I said was that I kept my gains with TRUE TRT i.e. 125-150mg Test per week compared to coming off completely with PCT, EVEN THOUGH my natural test levels were back to around 600. And when I was on TRT my levels were ~900 which would be plenty healthy and I kept my gains from my cycle which WAS around 1000mg.

You're the one who said it depends on keeping your gains. But yes I see what you are saying, if you can have healthy test levels and keep your gains on trt then why not. I was just saying if still at a younger age (<30) then why not see If you can get to a healthy level without relying on the needle 24/7....assuming of course your done using aas. I guess bc I've recently decided to take a 2 month break after cruising and blasting for 2 years, I'm preaching if you will

 

[TT]

Could be you have higher cortisol and other factors to elevated from prolonged exposure to unnatural high androgen levels.

You mentioned you would cruise with 150mg Test per week for 4 months "or longer to get your bloods back to normal"? How long did it typically take? For me even after orals included in my cycle everything is back to normal within a month or so.

My cortisol was normal. I did bloods pretty often and everything was fine. But somehow on even on 150mg/week which kept my test at 850-950 I was still sweating too much, was heat intolerant and my endurance was diminished. I could perform well, don't get me wrong, but still it was nothing compared to natural. It is kind of like NOS, you go fast but not for long.

To answer your question on how long it took to get to normal - I did bloods every 3-4 months. There is a probability that my bloods were back to normal in a month. I didn't do them that often. For example at the end of my blast cruse I did blood work and my crit hemoglobin and the rest was high. Then I would do bloods 3-4 months after and everything was perfect. There were times I remember my hdl/ldl were off so I gave myself an extra month with tight diet and extra cardio and then would start to blast again.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

You're the one who said it depends on keeping your gains. But yes I see what you are saying, if you can have healthy test levels and keep your gains on trt then why not. I was just saying if still at a younger age (<30) then why not see If you can get to a healthy level without relying on the needle 24/7....assuming of course your done using aas. I guess bc I've recently decided to take a 2 month break after cruising and blasting for 2 years, I'm preaching if you will

Right, my point was that yes health should come first but TRT is in theory just as healthy as being off completely (some would argue moreso) AND in many peoples cases including my own the gains stay better w trt compared to coming off completely. If TRT happened to cause someone to still have unhealthy indicators then I see what you're saying but if that's not the case I don't see why you wouldn't stay on TRT unless you keep gains just as well off of TRT.

 

[DK0223]

Right, my point was that yes health should come first but TRT is in theory just as healthy as being off completely (some would argue moreso) AND in many peoples cases including my own the gains stay better w trt compared to coming off completely. If TRT happened to cause someone to still have unhealthy indicators then I see what you're saying but if that's not the case I don't see why you wouldn't stay on TRT unless you keep gains just as well off of TRT.

ill say ive become more concerned with long term health as of late. so while it may be healthy at the time to be on trt, you are just further shutting your body down for when you do decide to come off one day(if that day comes) was kinda what i was getting at. lets be honest, ANY DOSE that gives you supraphysiological levels of testosterone is gonna shut you down. im not saying you cant be healthy, im just saying you're not ever giving your body a true break by constantly being ON, even if its a true trt dose

 

[aflo]

Post your protocol Ross.. I'm interested to
See it! Thanks !!

 

[Deleted member 106824]

ill say ive become more concerned with long term health as of late. so while it may be healthy at the time to be on trt, you are just further shutting your body down for when you do decide to come off one day(if that day comes) was kinda what i was getting at. lets be honest, ANY DOSE that gives you supraphysiological levels of testosterone is gonna shut you down. im not saying you cant be healthy, im just saying you're not ever giving your body a true break by constantly being ON, even if its a true trt dose

1. We are not talking about supraphysiological levels here. TRT is to keep you in NORMAL ranges

2. For the record, even TRT keeping you at levels of 500 would be shutting you down. Any exogenous testosterone would shut you down.

3. The point of TRT is generally to be on for life. If you're on for 10 years or 30 you'll be shut down long term and people don't come off at 50+, you stay on until you die.

Not trying to attack you, but you seem to not grasp the concepts behind what true TRT is for. We are not talking about bodybuilding "cruising" here, we are talking about medically prescribed TRT which is done the majority of times for health and under the assumption that it is for life.

 

[DK0223]

1. We are not talking about supraphysiological levels here. TRT is to keep you in NORMAL ranges

2. For the record, even TRT keeping you at levels of 500 would be shutting you down. Any exogenous testosterone would shut you down.

3. The point of TRT is generally to be on for life. If you're on for 10 years or 30 you'll be shut down long term and people don't come off at 50+, you stay on until you die.

Not trying to attack you, but you seem to not grasp the concepts behind what true TRT is for. We are not talking about bodybuilding "cruising" here, we are talking about medically prescribed TRT which is done the majority of times for health and under the assumption that it is for life.

re-read my post, i said this. im quite aware what we are talking about. and no, trt IS supraphysiological.....ANY dose that puts you above what your body NATURALLY produces IS supraphysiological. arent you like 22, you're already committed to a life of trt?

if someone has no issues with low T prior to AAS use, then there is no need to blast/cruise(trt)....especially at 20 something years old. sure if you compete(which i dont think you do?) and are trying to make it big, by all means do what you gotta do. but "cycling" is just fine at a young age. when you get older, then sure you may wanna consider trt dose between blasts, as its harder for your body to bounce back. still for a guy in his twenties, its simply not needed. to each their own i guess....

 

[Deleted member 106824]

re-read my post, i said this. im quite aware what we are talking about. and no, trt IS supraphysiological.....ANY dose that puts you above what your body NATURALLY produces IS supraphysiological. arent you like 22, you're already committed to a life of trt?

if someone has no issues with low T prior to AAS use, then there is no need to blast/cruise(trt)....especially at 20 something years old. sure if you compete(which i dont think you do?) and are trying to make it big, by all means do what you gotta do. but "cycling" is just fine at a young age. when you get older, then sure you may wanna consider trt dose between blasts, as its harder for your body to bounce back. still for a guy in his twenties, its simply not needed. to each their own i guess....

Lets play out 2 scenarios

A: I do 2 cycles per year, each 10 weeks long. I make great gains during the cycle. By week 4 off the cycle I am starting to feel off. I did PCT and my T levels are back to 5-600 but by week 5-6 I am starting to lose size and strength. By week 8-10 I am significant softer, weaker and smaller. After 16 weeks off I am almost back where I started and it's time for another cycle. Maybe I netted 1-2lb of muscle but not much. Repeat. Gain 2-4lb of muscle that year.

B. I do 2 cycles per year, each 10 weeks long. I make great gains during my cycle. I then go to a TRT dose of 125-150mg Test and maintain my T levels at 800-1000. My blood work is back to normal just as fast as coming off, but I am still setting strength PRs even though I may look a little softer. By 16 weeks into the cruise I am basically where I was at the end of my cycle (5-6lb of muscle gained) and am ready to start a new cycle. Repeat. Gain 10-12lb of muscle that year.

From summer 2012 - summer 2013 I experienced option A. From summer 2013 - summer 2014 I experienced option B.

Why would I choose option A over option B?? I do not understand your logic. Either way I'm shut down while on cycle, either way my health markers go back to normal just as fast when I'm done my blast/cycle....why would you chose option A?

Again I am not trying to be argumentative, I am trying to understand your logic as, believe me, I am all about health and do all I can to make things as safe as possible while still reaching my goals, but so far you've only mentioned being shutdown long term with TRT and I don't see why this is an issue as it's likely to happen with cycling anyway and even if it doesn't who cares...what's the issue?

 

[DK0223]

im just simply stating that its good to give your body a break every now and then, if nothing else its good mentally. by ALWAYS relying on exogenous testosterone, you are really never OFF is my point. and its good to come OFF here and there IMO...especially at a young age while your levels are most likely high(er) anyway

 

[Deleted member 106824]

im just simply stating that its good to give your body a break every now and then, if nothing else its good mentally. by ALWAYS relying on exogenous testosterone, you are really never OFF is my point. and its good to come OFF here and there IMO...especially at a young age while your levels are most likely high(er) anyway

All you said is that in your opinion it's good to come off lol. I am on prescribed T3 as well....my natural levels are subnormal. They are "fine" without T3 and I can get by but with it I can bring my levels to upper normal. Should I come off of that too for a "break"? Which in reality will just cause hormonal ups and downs as would coming off TRT. No doctor would recommend that for health reasons or any other reasons.

Only reason I can see coming off TRT is if you want kids or genuinely feel just as good and keep your gains just as well. Not wanting to be shut down for some arbitrary reason makes no sense.

While it's all well and good that that you 'feel' the way you do, you give no scientific reason whatsoever to back it up.

 

[DK0223]

All you said is that in your opinion it's good to come off lol. I am on prescribed T3 as well....my natural levels are subnormal. They are "fine" without T3 and I can get by but with it I can bring my levels to upper normal. Should I come off of that too for a "break"? Which in reality will just cause hormonal ups and downs as would coming off TRT. No doctor would recommend that for health reasons or any other reasons.

Only reason I can see coming off TRT is if you want kids or genuinely feel just as good and keep your gains just as well. Not wanting to be shut down for some arbitrary reason makes no sense.

While it's all well and good that that you 'feel' the way you do, you give no scientific reason whatsoever to back it up.

how old are you?

are you prescribed trt?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

how old are you?

are you prescribed trt?

23

Getting a prescription soon. I've come off completely twice since starting gear 2 years ago and both times I started losing gains quickly after around the 2 month mark, despite having T levels of 450-830 (checked multiple times in those periods, while on PCT and afterwards).

In terms of health both TRT and being completely off brought things back into normal range equally fast.

Always open to suggestions/opinions though if they are legitimate.

 

[DK0223]

23

Getting a prescription soon. I've come off completely twice since starting gear 2 years ago and both times I started losing gains quickly after around the 2 month mark, despite having T levels of 450-830 (checked multiple times in those periods, while on PCT and afterwards).

In terms of health both TRT and being completely off brought things back into normal range equally fast.

Always open to suggestions/opinions though if they are legitimate.

well if your being prescribed trt then thats another story, but if your justifying doing it yourself to keep some gains then i dont think thats necessarily the smartest decision. do you NEED trt tho at that age, are your levels low? its inevitable you'll lose some gains when you go off, even on trt you will most likely lose as your only as big as your dose(for the most part). but when you go back ON, those gains come back rather quickly, especially, again, being young. i was all about cruising on trt doses between cycles up until recently talking to some of the people who have been in this game much longer than me, and they made me open my eyes....no need to dedicate myself to the needle at 25 years old. do as you please bro, just proceed with caution and awareness is all

 

[Ross Erstling]

Will post protocol soon