Super Heavyweight Journal w/ Q+A

[Bio]

Big BUMP for one of the best threads going on PM!

 

[notorius]

Hey big man, I hope you are doing well.
So I started my 4 days a week HGH /slin regimen last week, at 1.5 iu GH 3 times a day+ 6 iu from Novalin R(slin 10/15 minutes after HGH injection, then eat 30 minutes after the slin pin, both 3 times a day all sub cue), then few days later upped the Novalin to 10 iu in each injection. I did not feel any hypo symptoms at an moment, even tough I did wait longer than 30 minutes after to see,or put it this way, I do not know if the insulin is doing anything at all; I am doing the 10 grams carbs per iu by the way, and even more than that to experiment, plus a generous protein quantity throughout the day with each meal.
If you were in my place, would you go higher than 10 iu on the slin or what criteria would you use to make sure the insulin is doing its thing?
Thanks for your time.

 

[notorius]

Hey Dave!

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Hey big man, I hope you are doing well.

So I started my 4 days a week HGH /slin regimen last week, at 1.5 iu GH 3 times a day+ 6 iu from Novalin R(slin 10/15 minutes after HGH injection, then eat 30 minutes after the slin pin, both 3 times a day all sub cue), then few days later upped the Novalin to 10 iu in each injection. I did not feel any hypo symptoms at an moment, even tough I did wait longer than 30 minutes after to see,or put it this way, I do not know if the insulin is doing anything at all; I am doing the 10 grams carbs per iu by the way, and even more than that to experiment, plus a generous protein quantity throughout the day with each meal.

If you were in my place, would you go higher than 10 iu on the slin or what criteria would you use to make sure the insulin is doing its thing?

Thanks for your time.

Hey bud. I’d get a glucometer. Hopefully your blood sugar isn’t so high (pre meal) that the insulin is correcting your BS before you ingest the carbs.

Also, you don’t, and shouldn’t feel hypo. Will you if you use insulin? Sure, occasionally, but the goal is to equalize the insulin to carbs, not chase hypoglycemia with carbs.

Also to note, use the insulin to shuttle the normal amount of nutrients you’re using, adding carbs and insulin SLOWLY over time. Many people use excessive doses of insulin to chase unnecessary amounts of carbs, thinking that the insulin will just turn everything into muscle... but that’s not so. Insulin puts everything “where it should go” at a faster rate. Once muscle glycogen is filled, the only option is fat. Basically, use the insulin to make what you already have more efficient, not to supercharge the excess carbs.

My advice would be to measure your BS between GH and insulin shots, again immediately before you eat, and once more after you’ve eaten. Do this to establish a baseline set of data, then make your adjustments from there.

 

[bill2]

Hey big man, I hope you are doing well.

So I started my 4 days a week HGH /slin regimen last week, at 1.5 iu GH 3 times a day+ 6 iu from Novalin R(slin 10/15 minutes after HGH injection, then eat 30 minutes after the slin pin, both 3 times a day all sub cue), then few days later upped the Novalin to 10 iu in each injection. I did not feel any hypo symptoms at an moment, even tough I did wait longer than 30 minutes after to see,or put it this way, I do not know if the insulin is doing anything at all; I am doing the 10 grams carbs per iu by the way, and even more than that to experiment, plus a generous protein quantity throughout the day with each meal.

If you were in my place, would you go higher than 10 iu on the slin or what criteria would you use to make sure the insulin is doing its thing?

Thanks for your time.

Hey bro I think you are alright with your regimen right now .. With 10 iu skin and the 10 gr carb per iu along with the protein you are golden !
You don't have to '"feel " the slin to realize it's working... Or even GH.. You don't have to start having carpal tunel to see that it's working... IMO when you start going hypo with the slin or starting to feel numbness in your hands with the GH you have gone too far with the dose....!



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[notorius]

If you were in my place as a newbie as I am to the slin business, how would you use the glucometer to make proper use of it monitoring your slin dosing and benefit from it as a bodybuilder?
Also, is there any optimal time frame between hgh and slin shots if we are talking about Novalin r, and should I proceed to eat at the peaking time of the slin or else?
Thanks again.

Hey bud. I’d get a glucometer. Hopefully your blood sugar isn’t so high (pre meal) that the insulin is correcting your BS before you ingest the carbs.

Also, you don’t, and shouldn’t feel hypo. Will you if you use insulin? Sure, occasionally, but the goal is to equalize the insulin to carbs, not chase hypoglycemia with carbs.

Also to note, use the insulin to shuttle the normal amount of nutrients you’re using, adding carbs and insulin SLOWLY over time. Many people use excessive doses of insulin to chase unnecessary amounts of carbs, thinking that the insulin will just turn everything into muscle... but that’s not so. Insulin puts everything “where it should go” at a faster rate. Once muscle glycogen is filled, the only option is fat. Basically, use the insulin to make what you already have more efficient, not to supercharge the excess carbs.

My advice would be to measure your BS between GH and insulin shots, again immediately before you eat, and once more after you’ve eaten. Do this to establish a baseline set of data, then make your adjustments from there.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

If you were in my place as a newbie as I am to the slin business, how would you use the glucometer to make proper use of it monitoring your slin dosing and benefit from it as a bodybuilder?

Also, is there any optimal time frame between hgh and slin shots if we are talking about Novalin r, and should I proceed to eat at the peaking time of the slin or else?

Thanks again.

The glucometer is great if you’re very nit picky. I’ll pick one up for prep mode.

The common sense thing is to not worry about the difference between 10 and 20 minutes. Stick your GH, wait about 10-15 min, stick your insulin, then begin eating. Keep additional liquid carbs handy to correct possible hypoglycemia. Collect data (times frames, macros), and adjust as necessary.

It’s easy to get obsessive, but obsessive is less important than common sense abs consistency.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Update here...

My knees have been a total wreck. Just had to see a back doctor, and get an MRI. Next up is the knee doctor and another MRI. Both the left and right meniscus are giving sharp pains and wicked instability. Let training has been limited, but progress is being made on what I can do.

I’m back to using a modified Fortitude training layout, as I just find it very easy to maintain and build muscle.

Diet has been lower calories, with Intermittent Fasting in half the days of each week.

Still training BJJ and on route for brown belt in a few months.

Cycle wise, it’s been 2 weeks of

Incendo Primobolan @ 700mg/wk
Toraxx Test Cyp @ 350mg/wk
Toraxx Arimidex @ 1mg EOD
no GH or humalog right now

I’m experimenting with Intermittent fasting, in which case I’ll implementing Incendo clen and some leftover rauwolscine during the fasts.

There are a few more Toraxx and Pompeyo items that’ll be nice to have soon, so I’ll be making a few additions.

Fasting weight is 260-262. By the end of the day, 265-268.

Started aggressively pursuing GHR, reverse hypers, zero momentum repetitions, and a few other training principals as well.


If anyone has questions, please feel free to fire away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LATS]

Update here...

My knees have been a total wreck. Just had to see a back doctor, and get an MRI. Next up is the knee doctor and another MRI. Both the left and right meniscus are giving sharp pains and wicked instability. Let training has been limited, but progress is being made on what I can do.

I’m back to using a modified Fortitude training layout, as I just find it very easy to maintain and build muscle.

Diet has been lower calories, with Intermittent Fasting in half the days of each week.

Still training BJJ and on route for brown belt in a few months.

Cycle wise, it’s been 2 weeks of

Incendo Primobolan @ 700mg/wk
Toraxx Test Cyp @ 350mg/wk
Toraxx Arimidex @ 1mg EOD
no GH or humalog right now

I’m experimenting with Intermittent fasting, in which case I’ll implementing Incendo clen and some leftover rauwolscine during the fasts.

There are a few more Toraxx and Pompeyo items that’ll be nice to have soon, so I’ll be making a few additions.

Fasting weight is 260-262. By the end of the day, 265-268.

Started aggressively pursuing GHR, reverse hypers, zero momentum repetitions, and a few other training principals as well.


If anyone has questions, please feel free to fire away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey brutha.. I see your taking 1mg of arimidex Eod for 350mgs of test.. Is this more than usual ?

 

[thethinker48]

Dave, thanks again for taking the time to do this!

What is your strategy with GH use? Would you taper it up just like AAS doses over many years, or would you stick to the 4-6 iu doses from the get go and keep them there indefinitely?

Given that high dose GH has detrimental effects on insulin sensitivity and your pancreas, is venturing past 6 ius smart without insulin?

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[Paul Lazar]

big Dave you are so great

 

[notorius]

I would look into prolotherapy for the knees if you did not do so already. A big way to avoid surgery and its consequences.

Update here...

My knees have been a total wreck

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bill2]

maybe bpc 157 might help?
how you train legs under your situation Dave?

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Hey brutha.. I see your taking 1mg of arimidex Eod for 350mgs of test.. Is this more than usual ?

That’s a typo. I meant E3D.
I’m pretty estrogen sensitive, the kind of guy that would get gyno from a legitimate TRT dose.

My mood is also much, much better when estrogen is on the lower end of normal.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Dave, thanks again for taking the time to do this!

What is your strategy with GH use? Would you taper it up just like AAS doses over many years, or would you stick to the 4-6 iu doses from the get go and keep them there indefinitely?

Given that high dose GH has detrimental effects on insulin sensitivity and your pancreas, is venturing past 6 ius smart without insulin?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

It’s a budget thing. Pompeyo has a few pharma GH’s (Xerendip, Saizen) that look great, so I’m considering those very soon. I’d rather run it than anything else, but those black Meditropes are okay for the time being.

If it’s pharma, starting at 2-3iu ED is ideal for a few months.

4-6iu ED will be a lot more noticeable for fat loss, hypertrophy, and fullness.... I did this with a combo of Genos and Humas in 2016, and it was un-fucking-real. It’s a subtle, consistent change that really pays divends after month 6-7.

If you can afford 6-8iu during prep, that’s my sweet spot. 10-12 straight weeks of that will transform your prep.

You can address the elevated BC with a glucometer, metformin, OTC GDA’s, insulin as needed, and following a lower carb diet, using only as many carbs as you need.

GH during the offseason would probably require more insulin and metformin, relative to carb consumption, and if you’re using short acting insulin pre/post WO. Off season GH can take you to the next level, but could destroy your insulin sensitivity if BS is unmonitored.

GH during a prep is a bit “safer” because you have longer periods of controlled/lower BS. Managing BS in prep to preserve insulin sensitivity will be much easier. The higher the units go, the more you should monitor BS.

At 6.6iu, my fasting BS during prep was in the mid 90’s. After a metformin, it was down to the mid 70’s.

 

[Reno911]

So Dave, you feel that even using Humalog at say 10units pre workout 4-5x/week can ruin your insulin sensitivity? What about if a guy were to run Log 2 weeks on 2 weeks off during the offseason? Do you think that might help stave off the issue a little longer. This is assuming the individual is not over using carbs and is also using GDA's a such.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

So Dave, you feel that even using Humalog at say 10units pre workout 4-5x/week can ruin your insulin sensitivity? What about if a guy were to run Log 2 weeks on 2 weeks off during the offseason? Do you think that might help stave off the issue a little longer. This is assuming the individual is not over using carbs and is also using GDA's a such.

It’s probably relative to how it’s done. You’d have to consider current state of health, body fat, macros surrounding the use, lifestyle, and genetics.

People say it could ruin sensitivity, but most intelligent bodybuilders never have that issue.

Hell, Milos Sarcev recently quoted (jokingly) that training with out insulin is pointless. He’s not saying it’s okay for everyone, but if everything is done responsibly, you can take it for indefinite periods of time.

People also probably assume body fat accrual is a sign of insulin resistance, but most of the time it’s because the diet and training weren’t managed properly with the insulin.

 

[LATS]

It’s probably relative to how it’s done. You’d have to consider current state of health, body fat, macros surrounding the use, lifestyle, and genetics.

People say it could ruin sensitivity, but most intelligent bodybuilders never have that issue.

Hell, Milos Sarcev recently quoted (jokingly) that training with out insulin is pointless. He’s not saying it’s okay for everyone, but if everything is done responsibly, you can take it for indefinite periods of time.

People also probably assume body fat accrual is a sign of insulin resistance, but most of the time it’s because the diet and training weren’t managed properly with the insulin.

We discussed insulin a lot today on the podcast.. The one thing I think that is finally coming to light is you don't need much to get the effect as its heightened with intense training and intra drink anyway.. Small amounts bring a big effect.. It's also important to match the insulin to the amount of carbs needed not match the carbs to the amount of insulin you want to take.. If that makes sense lol..

 

[thethinker48]

It’s a budget thing. Pompeyo has a few pharma GH’s (Xerendip, Saizen) that look great, so I’m considering those very soon. I’d rather run it than anything else, but those black Meditropes are okay for the time being.

If it’s pharma, starting at 2-3iu ED is ideal for a few months.

4-6iu ED will be a lot more noticeable for fat loss, hypertrophy, and fullness.... I did this with a combo of Genos and Humas in 2016, and it was un-fucking-real. It’s a subtle, consistent change that really pays divends after month 6-7.

If you can afford 6-8iu during prep, that’s my sweet spot. 10-12 straight weeks of that will transform your prep.

You can address the elevated BC with a glucometer, metformin, OTC GDA’s, insulin as needed, and following a lower carb diet, using only as many carbs as you need.

GH during the offseason would probably require more insulin and metformin, relative to carb consumption, and if you’re using short acting insulin pre/post WO. Off season GH can take you to the next level, but could destroy your insulin sensitivity if BS is unmonitored.

GH during a prep is a bit “safer” because you have longer periods of controlled/lower BS. Managing BS in prep to preserve insulin sensitivity will be much easier. The higher the units go, the more you should monitor BS.

At 6.6iu, my fasting BS during prep was in the mid 90’s. After a metformin, it was down to the mid 70’s.

Thank you for the response!

I remember you mentioning on Geard up one time that you miscalculated your dose with those Geno pens, and were taking like 30+ iu a day for a short time where it blew you up like a michelin man lol

With the recent GH testing on this board; I'd say aside from the dimer content which tends to promote more water retention; there's some good GH on this board. Especially TP's blacks and especially the greys (which were almost identical to the seros in purity, and very tiny amount higher in dimer content).

A lot of pros still use pharma (albeit in reasonable doses). Wonder if that's their own body's experience with the products, or just lack of access to Generic GH testing information.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

maybe bpc 157 might help?

how you train legs under your situation Dave?

I’ve used, and continue to use BPC aggressively.

My very smart friend (SS) thinks it’s what healed the rupture in the baker’s cyst.

Exercises are chosen based on pain. So far, I can use leg extensions, vertical leg presses, and 45 degree leg presses with a moderate weight and slow negatives. For hams, I had to ditch SLDL for 3-4 months, opting for GHR and seated curls. SLDL have come back recently though.