What do you do with intra-workout carbs while cutting?

[juggy38]

It's funny how everyone is always freaking out about missing a meal or not meeting their protein quota for the day to optimize muscle gain, but now nutrition and exercise is not that important when it comes to fat lose.

Weight training burns fuck all for calories. And it’s mostly glycotic in nature. Even if carbohydrates completely abolished fat oxidation during training (which they do not) your still not fucking up much fat oxidation in the 24h period.

Maximizing training intensity, lowering muscle protein breakdown, better pwo cortisol levels, is drastically more important.

Intra workout carbs should be cut last.

To the OP: cut 20g fat out. Thst will get things moving again

 

[165StateChamp]

Probably not ot

i wonder how intra workout carbs will jive with GLP-1 agonists - especially when peri-workout insulin is used

Intra carbs are for people who train hard. I think the population of hard trainers does not coincide with GLP-1 agonist users.

 

[Fleezy]

Probably not ot

Intra carbs are for people who train hard. I think the population of hard trainers does not coincide with GLP-1 agonist users.

i feel attacked

 

[danieltx]

I'm seriously looking at keto for mental health but would like to continue to pursue this sport, my question is when do you think carbs are most useful, intra, pre, post, a combination, or all the above? From what I've read pre and intra is the fastest in and out from blood to muscle, while post is probably the best for recovery.

If you're considering keto for mental health then don't pursue hardcore bodybuilding - it will make your mental health worse.

 

[hawkmoon]

Agree with @luki7788

When I am deep in prep and every nutrient has been pared back to minimum an intra workout makes a world of difference in training quality. Without it I am junk.

Not being able to train hard in prep will work against you as far as retaining muscle, and that 50g of carbs is key for me.

 

[Ace0]

If you're considering keto for mental health then don't pursue hardcore bodybuilding - it will make your mental health worse.

Can you expand on this? I find the lifting, the pump, and the simple pursuit of a goal as something healthy. Working hard for the sake of working hard is something I jive with.

I can see the issues deep into a cut and being jacked off stimulants.

 

[M@NU]

Probably not ot

Intra carbs are for people who train hard. I think the population of hard trainers does not coincide with GLP-1 agonist users.

why would you say so?
glp-1 agonists like semaglutide (or GLP-1 / GIP like tirzepatide) have a host of benefits that should be absolutely interesting for anyone in our sports circle.
the appetite suppression is minimal if you dont bolus dose so it can be used while cutting and while bulking.

 

[luki7788]

Probably not ot

Intra carbs are for people who train hard. I think the population of hard trainers does not coincide with GLP-1 agonist users.

I am of exactly the same opinion - if someone wants to use such drugs to maintain insulin sensitivity, i.e. not training hard enough and not keeping a clean diet because that's all you really need to maintain it - you have to remember that each additional drug introduced into our body it causes some stress and side effects, so we want to use as little as possible to get the most out of it

nothing can replace hard regular work - get your ass out of the chair and go for a 30-minute walk instead of taking the easy way and reaching for a metformin tablet or an injection of a GLP-1 antagonist - this will only work for a while, you won't cheat your body for a long time

 

[M@NU]

I am of exactly the same opinion - if someone wants to use such drugs to maintain insulin sensitivity, i.e. not training hard enough and not keeping a clean diet because that's all you really need to maintain it - you have to remember that each additional drug introduced into our body it causes some stress and side effects, so we want to use as little as possible to get the most out of it

nothing can replace hard regular work - get your ass out of the chair and go for a 30-minute walk instead of taking the easy way and reaching for a metformin tablet or an injection of a GLP-1 antagonist - this will only work for a while, you won't cheat your body for a long time

sorry @luki7788 , as much as i love most of your posts this is something i would absolutely not agree on.
There are drugs that have a place in a bodybuilders live. Something like Nebivolol or Telmisartan should be used for every enhanced bodybuilder.
We have to weight the health benefits to the potential side effects, and try them before judging since every individual has different reactions.

if you want to say "no" to all of that below without even trying then go for it. And as i said, the appetite suppressing "side effect" can be reduced by dosing ed or eod
and what do you even mean with

this will only work for a while, you won't cheat your body for a long time

drugs are intended to serve a specfic purpose. 150mg testosterone works today, tomorrow and in 20 years. Just the "feelz" might be different.
Same for your betablocker or arb

 

[Bobik]

View attachment 178909

is it an effect of the drug itself or a result of weight loss in obese people? All of these benefits can be seen in all people who lose body fat through diet and exercise.

 

[M@NU]

is it an effect of the drug itself or a result of weight loss in obese people? All of these benefits can be seen in all people who lose body fat through diet and exercise.

here is great writeup of glp-1 agonism.

GLP-1 Receptor Agonists: Beyond Their Pancreatic Effects

Glucagon like peptide-1 (GLP-1) is an incretin secretory molecule. GLP-1 receptor agonists (GLP-1RAs) are widely used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes (T2DM) due to their attributes such as body weight loss, protection of islet β cells, promotion of islet β cell proliferation and minimal side...

www.frontiersin.org

you can read how they affect differnt pathways
of course weight loss will also play a role but they are proven to have a host of benefits that are independant of weight loss

 

[165StateChamp]

why would you say so?
glp-1 agonists like semaglutide (or GLP-1 / GIP like tirzepatide) have a host of benefits that should be absolutely interesting for anyone in our sports circle.
the appetite suppression is minimal if you dont bolus dose so it can be used while cutting and while bulking.

Agree completely with Luki. Aside from that, your body’s natural response to food is extremely important and confusing that signaling/ability to interpret it is counterproductive.

Anyway, if we’re being honest, we know the primary reason people use it is appetite suppression with the insulin sensitivity and other benefits being secondary. If you need a drug to reduce appetite so you can follow your diet, competitive bodybuilding and hard training is typically not something you’re good at.

 

[M@NU]

Agree completely with Luki. Aside from that, your body’s natural response to food is extremely important and confusing that signaling/ability to interpret it is counterproductive.

Anyway, if we’re being honest, we know the primary reason people use it is appetite suppression with the insulin sensitivity and other benefits being secondary. If you need a drug to reduce appetite so you can follow your diet, competitive bodybuilding and hard training is typically not something you’re good at.

sure, the usual user of semaglutide / tirzepatide uses it for the appetite suppressing effect because they love to stuff themselves with shit and cant follow a diet.
But for us enhanced bodybuilders looking for different aspects to improve longevitity and health it is a different story.
In my opinion, we shouldnt put it aside just because we think it is "for the lazy" without exploring its positives

 

[luki7788]

sorry @luki7788 , as much as i love most of your posts this is something i would absolutely not agree on.
There are drugs that have a place in a bodybuilders live. Something like Nebivolol or Telmisartan should be used for every enhanced bodybuilder.
We have to weight the health benefits to the potential side effects, and try them before judging since every individual has different reactions.

if you want to say "no" to all of that below without even trying then go for it. And as i said, the appetite suppressing "side effect" can be reduced by dosing ed or eod
and what do you even mean with

drugs are intended to serve a specfic purpose. 150mg testosterone works today, tomorrow and in 20 years. Just the "feelz" might be different.
Same for your betablocker or arb
View attachment 178909

honestly, I don't know how you can even compare drugs to control blood pressure and heart rate, which in 99% of cases must be used because being on high doses of gear, you can't control your blood pressure naturally without comparing it, for example, with glycemia, which is absolutely controllable without additional medications

 

[Ace0]

nothing can replace hard regular work - get your ass out of the chair

I never realized how much of an issue this was until Layne Norton pointed out how obsessed people have become with “hacks” like cold plunges, random herbs and supplements, sauna, etc. originally I thought it was to be optimal but then you see the people promoting the shit, they are trying to build the peak of a skyscraper before they have a foundation

View attachment 178909

Miracle drugs like this are coming out yearly and I’m done with these infographics they are generally very misleading, what’s the effect size? Was it statistically significant? Human models or rodent studies? It goes on and on. You know what works better than anything? Wholesome diet and exercise (more than just weights for an hour 4x a week).
Sorry for the rant, not directed to you at all. I just remember seeing an almost identical picture for telmisartan, metformin a few years ago, NAC before that, ECGc, it never stops.
Yes they have an effect, but between becoming a walking a pharmacy, contaminants, and unknown interactions, people with these huge health stacks will end up doing more harm than good.

 

[M@NU]

honestly, I don't know how you can even compare drugs to control blood pressure and heart rate, which in 99% of cases must be used because being on high doses of gear, you can't control your blood pressure naturally without comparing it, for example, with glycemia, which is absolutely controllable without additional medications

just because semaglutide is currently approved for diabetes doesnt mean it is its only use, no?
it is currently studied for heart failure etc.
i am not sure, for me it seems you have no even bothered checking glp-1 agonists or GIPR out and just throwing them into the "lazy drugs" corner
and dont take this offensive please, i like your post and in 99% i completely agree with your view

I never realized how much of an issue this was until Layne Norton pointed out how obsessed people have become with “hacks” like cold plunges, random herbs and supplements, sauna, etc. originally I thought it was to be optimal but then you see the people promoting the shit, they are trying to build the peak of a skyscraper before they have a foundation


Miracle drugs like this are coming out yearly and I’m done with these infographics they are generally very misleading, what’s the effect size? Was it statistically significant? Human models or rodent studies? It goes on and on. You know what works better than anything? Wholesome diet and exercise (more than just weights for an hour 4x a week).
Sorry for the rant, not directed to you at all. I just remember seeing an almost identical picture for telmisartan, metformin a few years ago, NAC before that, ECGc, it never stops.
Yes they have an effect, but between becoming a walking a pharmacy, contaminants, and unknown interactions, people with these huge health stacks will end up doing more harm than good.

i am not easily to offend, so dont worry.
Different views and perspectives is what makes stuff more interesting and i am all about learning.
Throw the picture away and look at the paper ive posted
and for the stuff you posted:
all telmisartan, metformin and nac are amazing drugs/supplements, no?
they all have their place imo

 

[Ace0]

Throw the picture away and look at the paper ive posted

I don’t have much time right now but one thing I’ve noticed in some of the studies referenced is equating endogenous GLP-1 and exogenous supplementation. We know from other substances that it’s not that simple. Anyways there are way too many claims to look at, what are you looking to treat specifically and why are you using semaglutide for that reason is the question you should be asking, then deep dive into the literature for that one specific and compare to available medications.

 

[BigLittleJoe2]

When cutting and NOT using Slin peri-workout, I find that getting an adequate amount of carbs in the meal that precedes my session is more important than having CHO intra.
With Slin in the equation is a different deal.

Could you elaborate on your peri-workout nutrition when you are using slin (specifically Humulin R)? I know there are a lot of protocols out there but I like to see what everyone is doing.

 

[luki7788]

just because semaglutide is currently approved for diabetes doesnt mean it is its only use, no?
it is currently studied for heart failure etc.
i am not sure, for me it seems you have no even bothered checking glp-1 agonists or GIPR out and just throwing them into the "lazy drugs" corner
and dont take this offensive please, i like your post and in 99% i completely agree with your view



i am not easily to offend, so dont worry.
Different views and perspectives is what makes stuff more interesting and i am all about learning.
Throw the picture away and look at the paper ive posted
and for the stuff you posted:
all telmisartan, metformin and nac are amazing drugs/supplements, no?
they all have their place imo

oh you are wrong I have been interested in glp-1 antagonists for a long time but after my recent health problems and conversations with Ashim I realized that I was using some substances, such as metformin, completely unnecessary and I was harming myself in this way - of course, to someone who did not have such problems like me metformin will help more than harm but in my case it was different - another thing is that none of us know what we carry inside and by randomly adding various drugs we can seriously harm ourselves so if there is no such need and there is a natural way to improve something what the drug was supposed to do, I would choose the path without the help of pharmacy

 

[M@NU]

oh you are wrong I have been interested in glp-1 antagonists for a long time but after my recent health problems and conversations with Ashim I realized that I was using some substances, such as metformin, completely unnecessary and I was harming myself in this way - of course, to someone who did not have such problems like me metformin will help more than harm but in my case it was different - another thing is that none of us know what we carry inside and by randomly adding various drugs we can seriously harm ourselves so if there is no such need and there is a natural way to improve something what the drug was supposed to do, I would choose the path without the help of pharmacy

okay, understood.
this makes sense.
Yeah, you never know if drug A does more damage to you than benefits.