What macro do you increase first for lean mass?

7_Deadly_Sins · Dec 11, 2009

concreteguy said:
When can you make muscle in a calorie deficit? I didnt say maintenance calories never change. and I'm not talking about a pro with a ton of muscle memory thats been on just low test and slin/hgh for a few months ballooning up into prep when he hits juice hard. Phil, could you please answer this? I think it's a really good question.

I'll answer that.
When I was working /w Phil, he gave me his diet yada yada. I dropped 20 pounds of bodyfat, yet every workout i was getting stronger and stronger. I can't say why it works, it just does. I believe in most cases, the amount of food you need is exaggerated. And I'm natural too, so it's not the drugs. Just busting ass in the gym and eatting good food.
Look at Chris, he grew going into his show, and ate hardly nothing(to me haha).

concreteguy · Dec 11, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
The best answer/explanation is here in the competitors that lose weight and keep getting stronger for a show......there lies the answer for all practical purposes........maybe not on paper, but in the real world, it happens..

Have a nice weekend!

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

7_Deadly_Sins said:
I'll answer that.
When I was working /w Phil, he gave me his diet yada yada. I dropped 20 pounds of bodyfat, yet every workout i was getting stronger and stronger. I can't say why it works, it just does. I believe in most cases, the amount of food you need is exaggerated. And I'm natural too, so it's not the drugs. Just busting ass in the gym and eatting good food.
Look at Chris, he grew going into his show, and ate hardly nothing(to me haha).

Yes, I too experienced the same results. I am at the point however, where Im trying to grow faster...I mean I just want to know if I can do anything more diet wise to do so. However, as this thread has played out, if its not broken why fix it? I guess I have fallen victim to the want-it-now factor. haha. Always trying to learn more and see what other peeps are doing.

PHIL HERNON · Dec 11, 2009

Well

Ness said:
Yes, I too experienced the same results. I am at the point however, where Im trying to grow faster...I mean I just want to know if I can do anything more diet wise to do so. However, as this thread has played out, if its not broken why fix it? I guess I have fallen victim to the want-it-now factor. haha. Always trying to learn more and see what other peeps are doing.

Grow faster? You should always strive to gain muscle as fast as you can.....muscle, not weight. Like I said before, you will be disappointed IF you rely on diet to accomplish that. Your answer lies in my first response.......BUT, I know I preach LBAs all day long but look at the studies on nitrogen retention........now see why hospitals use them now as their protein source?

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

PHIL HERNON said:
Grow faster? You should always strive to gain muscle as fast as you can.....muscle, not weight. Like I said before, you will be disappointed IF you rely on diet to accomplish that. Your answer lies in my first response.......BUT, I know I preach LBAs all day long but look at the studies on nitrogen retention........now see why hospitals use them now as their protein source?

Thanks for making this thread worth a damn, Phil! I understand.............stupid polls....................I hate those fing polls.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

LBAs

Yes...so mixing chocolate and coconut makes life worth living. Phil, if you did the O next year would you repeat your USA protocol with LBAs?

7_Deadly_Sins · Dec 11, 2009

Ness said:
Yes, I too experienced the same results. I am at the point however, where Im trying to grow faster...I mean I just want to know if I can do anything more diet wise to do so. However, as this thread has played out, if its not broken why fix it? I guess I have fallen victim to the want-it-now factor. haha. Always trying to learn more and see what other peeps are doing.

Remember that this is a life long goal..not a quick fix like so many people want..I think that's what's wrong with America now...everyone wants everything yesterday(not saying you do..just in general)

You can only grow so fast, adding more food than you need to grow is going to result in extra body fat..now a little extra here and there, I say it might be necessary to get to your goal..but adding a ton is only going to make things harder in the long run.

Johnny Smiles · Dec 11, 2009

i think its a good good question Ness

PHIL HERNON said:
The best answer/explanation is here in the competitors that lose weight and keep getting stronger for a show......there lies the answer for all practical purposes........maybe not on paper, but in the real world, it happens..

i have experienced this as well. did a contest prep and got LEAN and when i went back to the same bodyfat i had before the show i was pounds heavier so even though i was in a deficit in prep i grew muscle.

i think if you want to lose adipose then lower carbs in your macro ratios. but NOT BY MUCH. i personally would leave protein and fats the same and only up hormones gradually

-JS

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

Johnny Smiles said:
i have experienced this as well. did a contest prep and got LEAN and when i went back to the same bodyfat i had before the show i was pounds heavier so even though i was in a deficit in prep i grew muscle.

i think if you want to lose adipose then lower carbs in your macro ratios. but NOT BY MUCH. i personally would leave protein and fats the same except hormones i would gradually change those -JS

Yes, and I agree with you also that you need to very gradually change the hormones alone the way. Forget the diet...let it do what its suppose to do (maintain your mass) while you grow through training and hormone manipulation. The diet, when eating when hungry, will take care of itself. nuff said.

Ness · Dec 11, 2009

7_Deadly_Sins said:
Remember that this is a life long goal..not a quick fix like so many people want..I think that's what's wrong with America now...everyone wants everything yesterday(not saying you do..just in general)

You can only grow so fast, adding more food than you need to grow is going to result in extra body fat..now a little extra here and there, I say it might be necessary to get to your goal..but adding a ton is only going to make things harder in the long run.

Hey! Leave America out of this!

concreteguy · Dec 12, 2009

7_Deadly_Sins said:
I'll answer that.
When I was working /w Phil, he gave me his diet yada yada. I dropped 20 pounds of bodyfat, yet every workout i was getting stronger and stronger. I can't say why it works, it just does. I believe in most cases, the amount of food you need is exaggerated. And I'm natural too, so it's not the drugs. Just busting ass in the gym and eatting good food.
Look at Chris, he grew going into his show, and ate hardly nothing(to me haha).

Hey I'm really happy your doing so well with Phil! To have an IFBB pro giving out advice for free is wonderful. Have you seen what George Farra is charging?

Do you think that maybe you were converting fat in the form of calorie/energy during your transtransformation? I do. Your total body as a system was in a calorie deficit but your muscles weren't. They were growing off your fat calories being converted.

Ness, I think T3,clen,mas,tren.winny and most all prep drugs are good aids to do this. But when it comes to the word of a concreteguy or an IFBB pro I hope ya know whoes advice to go with

BULK_CITY · Dec 13, 2009

I think Phil is saying theres an upper limit to how much muscle you can gain and that diet can't increase it or speed it up that much so it's best to eat enough protein/fats/carbs to make sure you can grow at that level, while keeping bodyfat in check and thats it. And that the only way to increase your rate of muscle growth is to change your hormones/test etc (assuming you're already on a training system thats good for you). Am I right?

Im wondering if there is a way to do the last part without drug and only over the counter stuff (but no designer stuff like superdrol or whatever)

SmallTownIron · Dec 13, 2009

I think you just cleared it all up for me, thanks. After reading this post, I know realize that it is common sense. Ha!

BULK_CITY said:
I think Phil is saying theres an upper limit to how much muscle you can gain and that diet can't increase it or speed it up that much so it's best to eat enough protein/fats/carbs to make sure you can grow at that level, while keeping bodyfat in check and thats it. And that the only way to increase your rate of muscle growth is to change your hormones/test etc (assuming you're already on a training system thats good for you). Am I right?

Im wondering if there is a way to do the last part without drug and only over the counter stuff (but no designer stuff like superdrol or whatever)

godzillaballs · Feb 26, 2010

BULK_CITY said:
I think Phil is saying theres an upper limit to how much muscle you can gain and that diet can't increase it or speed it up that much so it's best to eat enough protein/fats/carbs to make sure you can grow at that level, while keeping bodyfat in check and thats it. And that the only way to increase your rate of muscle growth is to change your hormones/test etc (assuming you're already on a training system thats good for you). Am I right?

Once you're eating enough to grow as it is, your rate of putting on lean mass is a factor of, as Phil stated, your hormonal environment. Thanks to the marvels of pharmaceutical science, you can use drugs to optimize that environment for such a purpose as muscle building. When you have the calories and the macros to grow, you either accept the rate of muscle growth your natural genetics allow or you use the medical tools we've developed to alter it.

terryd5150 · Feb 26, 2010

Damn good info in this thread.

Phil, thanks for your insights on the matters.

Ness, are you a trial attorney? You seems to always know the EXACT question to ask next (plus the way you worded your questions, lol).

Ness · Feb 26, 2010

terryd5150 said:
Damn good info in this thread.

Phil, thanks for your insights on the matters.

Ness, are you a trial attorney? You seems to always know the EXACT question to ask next (plus the way you worded your questions, lol).

Oh, man I wish.

My wife is, however, and she has handed me some serious spankings. Some good...some not so good. haha

Buildinthaskinnys · Feb 26, 2010

Gaining strength while losing fat would be caused by nutrient partitioning correct? And this can be manipulated to a further extent though proper food intake timing right?