Abnormal heart rate recovery after exercise is a predictor of mortality

[nothuman]

The first dilemma is that getting into great cardio shape requires TIME.... it won't happen quickly (it may take months or years).



The other dilemma is that getting into great cardio shape requires lots of EFFORT.... it doesn't happen easily (it will require intense activity... it does not happen by walking).



I was running intensely everyday for 1-2 hours training for competitive varsity track and cross country.



Granted, that is probably overkill for what is required for bodybuilding... but it took me several years of consistent, real effort to reach what I considered to be good shape.





I would think that that much intense cardio activity would either be catabolic, or it would dramatically cut into the recovery of your leg muscles. It may also burn too many calories.

It doesn't have to take THAT long. Getting lean + HITT cardio as many times a week as you can do it (4-5x for me) got me into very good cardio shape in a few months. There are other variables though like how much muscle someone has, etc

 

[maldorf]

Good article, something you can measure yourself

Perhaps members can take a look at your heart rate recovery time after doing a set. Keep an eye on it and if it starts to get longer then something might be up. Just a tool.

 

[Bio-hazard]

Maldorf,

For as long as I can remember I've always had a high resting HR. Sometimes it's mid 85/90 but usally around 75. My heart has "flurries" every blue moon for a second but back to normal. My doctor said he would only be concerned if my blood pressure was high, however it's always been spot on. 127/68- or around those numbers. He said if I had both then he would be worried. However I'm not so sure. Heart disease runs in my family and has killed alot of men on my father's side... including my own dad at only 56. Also, I get out of breath like any normal person training but return to normal at an average time as well. And my heart rate doing brisk walking on an incline after weights usually hovers around 135... so again not crazy high. Nonetheless I believe its time for a full heart specific check up. Which tests would you recommend me having done?

 

[nothuman]

Maldorf,

For as long as I can remember I've always had a high resting HR. Sometimes it's mid 85/90 but usally around 75. My heart has "flurries" every blue moon for a second but back to normal. My doctor said he would only be concerned if my blood pressure was high, however it's always been spot on. 127/68- or around those numbers. He said if I had both then he would be worried. However I'm not so sure. Heart disease runs in my family and has killed alot of men on my father's side... including my own dad at only 56. Also, I get out of breath like any normal person training but return to normal at an average time as well. And my heart rate doing brisk walking on an incline after weights usually hovers around 135... so again not crazy high. Nonetheless I believe its time for a full heart specific check up. Which tests would you recommend me having done?

Get an echo cardiogram. I would consider a beta blocker to lower your resting heart rate. Carditone helps lower it too.

You asked Maldorf but I want to help too

 

[liv2pb]

Perhaps members can take a look at your heart rate recovery time after doing a set. Keep an eye on it and if it starts to get longer then something might be up. Just a tool.

Thanks for posting and bumping this bro! Good information here

 

[maldorf]

Maldorf,

For as long as I can remember I've always had a high resting HR. Sometimes it's mid 85/90 but usally around 75. My heart has "flurries" every blue moon for a second but back to normal. My doctor said he would only be concerned if my blood pressure was high, however it's always been spot on. 127/68- or around those numbers. He said if I had both then he would be worried. However I'm not so sure. Heart disease runs in my family and has killed alot of men on my father's side... including my own dad at only 56. Also, I get out of breath like any normal person training but return to normal at an average time as well. And my heart rate doing brisk walking on an incline after weights usually hovers around 135... so again not crazy high. Nonetheless I believe its time for a full heart specific check up. Which tests would you recommend me having done?

Everything sounds ok, but a resting heart rate between 85 and 90 is a bit high for someone that is fit and exercises. It could be a matter of carrying too much weight. I would think about water retention, but then you mention your BP is good. That's what your doctor was worried about. You say it is usually about 75 though and that is perfectly normal! I remember reading how Chuck Norris had a resting rate of 45 bpm. That was back in the 80s before all of the Chuck Norris Jokes,lol!

I would ask your family doctor. I think he would run an ekg there at his office, just you lying or sitting down. That probably wouldn't show anything wrong, but you never know. Have you at least had that done once? Its cheap to run. I would definitely have that.

Then you have a stress test where they do an EKG while you run on the treadmill to failure. They keep increasing the incline more and more till you say STOP! LOL. That's fun. More shows up when your heart has a big demand for O2, arrhythmias may show up along with other indicators like bundle branch block etc. I would try to get that done. They can also run a VO2 max on you at the same time.

Echocardiograms are awesome. That would show your heart's function in the ejection fraction measurement. They can see wall motion and if it is normal. In a heart that is enlarged and diseased the walls don't move as much as they should, hence don't pump blood so well. They may say the walls are akinetic.

To me the best test out of what I mentioned, if I could only run one, would be the echocardiogram.

This coming Tuesday I am having one and then on Thursday I am having my first PET scan. In the PET scan I will take a radioactive tracer and that goes into my heart cells that are still alive. When they do an image of my heart the dead parts wont light up on the screen like the live ones because they wont have the tracer. Going to see just how much of my heart is dead and if they should go back in and open up my right coronary artery. It is closed up again. I think it is closed though because all of the muscle it supplies is dead.

 

[maldorf]

high resting heart rate

When your heart rate is fast at rest that tells me that the heart isn't getting the blood supply it needs. It is based on Cardiac Output. CO= stroke volume x heart rate. If your stroke volume is low, low ejection fraction, then the heart has to beat faster to make up for the difference. It is a matter of how many liters of blood can your heart move in say 1 minute. if it is pushing a lot each stroke then it can beat slower.

In times of stress the heart will beat faster because of hormones like norepinephrine, and if someone has an overactive thyroid that will raise resting heart rate. So hormones matter too. Youd be loosing weight though I think if you had that.

When I developed cardiomyopathy, years before my heart attack, my resting heart rate when lying in bed after waking up was over 100 bpm. I knew something was wrong and figured I was just overtrained. Being overtrained can do it too. I think that raises the levels of catecholamines and corticosteroids which raise the rate. I was wrong.

Later on I was able to only mow about 1/2 the front yard before taking a break, whereas in the past I could do the whole yard with no break. big changes like that are a sign. My heart rate would be flying and Id have to rest for like 10 minutes to get it back down and breathe regular. See how hard you have to breathe.

 

[ronnieron]

Does the heart repair itself after time, following a heart attack? I was consistently I around 90bpm resting up until about 10mo afterwards. Now at about 15mo mark I'm in the 60s.

 

[maldorf]

Does the heart repair itself after time, following a heart attack? I was consistently I around 90bpm resting up until about 10mo afterwards. Now at about 15mo mark I'm in the 60s.

That is about normal I think. Even though you aren't exercising those 10 minutes after, your body is flooded with catecholamines all designed to increase your cardiac output. Vessels dilate and heart rate increases. 90 isn't too high I think. Getting down to 60 in 15 minutes is good I think. Id say perfectly normal and maybe even better than most. Might also depend too on how long you were exercising and how hard, how many of those hormones you have circulating.

Once you have a heart attack and cells die they are gone for good. They get replaced with scar tissue. I will find out soon how much I have in my heart. The heart can do what they call remodeling though, where other parts of the heart in a way take over some of the function of the dead cells. The heart is able to adapt but it will never be as good as it was before the heart attack. When you have a blockage in a coronary artery, the heart can form new blood vessels that are a natural bypass for the clog. It is amazing! This is called collateral circulation. I had another angiogram done in March and they told me I have about 5 collateral branches now that are helping out since my right coronary is all shut off.

 

[maldorf]

Does the heart repair itself after time, following a heart attack? I was consistently I around 90bpm resting up until about 10mo afterwards. Now at about 15mo mark I'm in the 60s.

One great guide to go by is the trend of your recovery and resting heart rate. If that gets worse over time even though you are exercising the same and just as fit then that is something to look at. I used to go by that to help me determine if I was overtrained. Being overtrained bad can make both of those go higher. Heart disease of course would too.

 

[ronnieron]

That is about normal I think. Even though you aren't exercising those 10 minutes after, your body is flooded with catecholamines all designed to increase your cardiac output. Vessels dilate and heart rate increases. 90 isn't too high I think. Getting down to 60 in 15 minutes is good I think. Id say perfectly normal and maybe even better than most. Might also depend too on how long you were exercising and how hard, how many of those hormones you have circulating.

Once you have a heart attack and cells die they are gone for good. They get replaced with scar tissue. I will find out soon how much I have in my heart. The heart can do what they call remodeling though, where other parts of the heart in a way take over some of the function of the dead cells. The heart is able to adapt but it will never be as good as it was before the heart attack. When you have a blockage in a coronary artery, the heart can form new blood vessels that are a natural bypass for the clog. It is amazing! This is called collateral circulation. I had another angiogram done in March and they told me I have about 5 collateral branches now that are helping out since my right coronary is all shut off.

I had a 100% blockage of my LAD, the widowmaker is.what they called it. Seems my heart is doing better the further I have.gotten from my heart attack.

 

[maldorf]

I had a 100% blockage of my LAD, the widowmaker is.what they called it. Seems my heart is doing better the further I have.gotten from my heart attack.

Great that you survived that! From what I understand very few do survive 100% occlusion of the LAD. You must have gotten to the ER fast and didn't mess around. How long between symptoms of the heart attack and getting to the ER take?

I myself had no chest pain, no really big traditional signs of a heart attack other than nausea and feeling faint, and I tried to explain that away with just working out too hard. I was in denial. I was squatting really hard when my clot happened. That was the cause of my heart attack. I think it was the high bp developed when squatting really hard and heavy. I waited from about 9:30pm till 3 am to finally go in. At home, after driving home having a heart attack, all I had for a symptom was heart burn and some tachycardia.

You had bypass surgery I would guess? Unless yours was a clot like mine. Your heart also has probably developed some good collateral circulation too. heart attack must have been minor. Whats your ejection fraction at? Mine is around 20%. Sounds like you didn't have too many cardiac muscle cells die.

 

[Bio-hazard]

Thanks guys. Ill schedule an Echocardiogram. Is there another test to check on blockages around the heart? I get some sharp nasty pains every so often as well out of left field so I need to check up that before something happens. (however my blood pressure is good)

 

[nothuman]

Thanks guys. Ill schedule an Echocardiogram. Is there another test to check on blockages around the heart? I get some sharp nasty pains every so often as well out of left field so I need to check up that before something happens. (however my blood pressure is good)

CT scan, but you'll have to get the echo cardiogram first and then go from there with the doctor to see if it's necessary.

 

[maldorf]

Thanks guys. Ill schedule an Echocardiogram. Is there another test to check on blockages around the heart? I get some sharp nasty pains every so often as well out of left field so I need to check up that before something happens. (however my blood pressure is good)

The gold standard for showing blockage is still doing an angiogram, but they would never do that unless you have some other tests come back bad. They have to run a catheter up your femoral artery or an artery in your arm. They then shoot die in there and view it through an xray to see if the die gets through all of your coronary artery branches. This is quite invasive and they just don't to it on a whim, and rightly so.

I am not sure what other test would really show you blood flow through the arteries like that. Ive had MUGA scans but those are more like doing an echo. The PET scan I am doing next week will show where I have dead cardiac tissue.

 

[NEMSZ]

Just want to say that this thread along with some of the others about health made me realize a lot (as I’ve been seeing over the past few months) and I’ve made steady changes but haven’t been SUPER on top of myself..

Went out last night and bought a blood pressure monitor....

I’m 27 years old 5’8 180lbs and I don’t know my bodyfat and since there’s so much argument about what percentages are what let’s save the bullshit and I’m telling you I have abs without flexing even after a big meal and I have pretty decent vascularity on arms and chest/shoulders without really trying so you guys can use your imagination lol

... I’m sober from all drugs/alcohol except weed and 500mg Test E/300mg NPP per week and 4iu Blacktop HGH...

I eat pretty balanced as I love all food and veggies and fruits etc and I do have my cheats (mostly on weekends) but stay as far as I can from sugars and I literally only drink water..

Training is DC training.. Real DC training how it has been laid out by the man himself EXCEPT AND I ADMIT..... SLACKING ON THE CARDIO

Blood pressure has been a consistent 120-125/70-75

But my resting heart rate has been consistent at 80-85 bpm...

If it wouldn’t have been for this thread and many like it and the guys that post on here I probably wouldn’t have made that move and other scheduled blood work I have..

Who knows what decisions I would’ve made and where it would take me health wise had it not been for some of you...

Now this isn’t crazy or any kind of bad blood work... But an overall healthy 27 year old male as I stated above shouldn’t be having a resting heart rate of 85bpm..

Glad I can start now, because of some of you, lord knows if I remained in the dark with the same mentality I had a few years ago I wouldn’t make it to 40...

Just felt like sharing how I felt today...

 

[nothuman]

Just want to say that this thread along with some of the others about health made me realize a lot (as I’ve been seeing over the past few months) and I’ve made steady changes but haven’t been SUPER on top of myself..

Went out last night and bought a blood pressure monitor....

I’m 27 years old 5’8 180lbs and I don’t know my bodyfat and since there’s so much argument about what percentages are what let’s save the bullshit and I’m telling you I have abs without flexing even after a big meal and I have pretty decent vascularity on arms and chest/shoulders without really trying so you guys can use your imagination lol

... I’m sober from all drugs/alcohol except weed and 500mg Test E/300mg NPP per week and 4iu Blacktop HGH...

I eat pretty balanced as I love all food and veggies and fruits etc and I do have my cheats (mostly on weekends) but stay as far as I can from sugars and I literally only drink water..

Training is DC training.. Real DC training how it has been laid out by the man himself EXCEPT AND I ADMIT..... SLACKING ON THE CARDIO

Blood pressure has been a consistent 120-125/70-75

But my resting heart rate has been consistent at 80-85 bpm...

If it wouldn’t have been for this thread and many like it and the guys that post on here I probably wouldn’t have made that move and other scheduled blood work I have..

Who knows what decisions I would’ve made and where it would take me health wise had it not been for some of you...

Now this isn’t crazy or any kind of bad blood work... But an overall healthy 27 year old male as I stated above shouldn’t be having a resting heart rate of 85bpm..

Glad I can start now, because of some of you, lord knows if I remained in the dark with the same mentality I had a few years ago I wouldn’t make it to 40...

Just felt like sharing how I felt today...

I'm going to take a guess and say your resting heart rate will drop into the 60's if not for the NPP and 4iu black tops. Those things raise mine a lot.

 

[maldorf]

I'm going to take a guess and say your resting heart rate will drop into the 60's if not for the NPP and 4iu black tops. Those things raise mine a lot.

I was going to wonder about water retention, but he says his BP is normal. Ive never done NPP before, just the longer ester form. I know all forms of tren tended to raise my heart rate. It might be a decrease in the contractility of the heart muscle itself. Id say for some reason the stroke volume is lower than it should be and so to maintain cardiac output the heart beats faster. The whole homeostasis thing, maintain a certain level of 02 in the blood.

 

[nothuman]

I was going to wonder about water retention, but he says his BP is normal. Ive never done NPP before, just the longer ester form. I know all forms of tren tended to raise my heart rate. It might be a decrease in the contractility of the heart muscle itself. Id say for some reason the stroke volume is lower than it should be and so to maintain cardiac output the heart beats faster. The whole homeostasis thing, maintain a certain level of 02 in the blood.

Water retention is not the cause of increased heart rate in GH and NPP. Those things will raise it. No doubt about it. Test will too but not at low/modest doses. The amount of the increase depends on the doses and the individual.

 

[maldorf]

Relevant with some of today's posts about HR

Been a couple of threads started about heart rate while on steroids. I thought this article might be good for some of the newer members to read. Interesting study.