Another flat bench casualty

[Ness]

Yes, I am niave.

But...why do flat when you can lift more weight with other chest exercises?

 

[Kapeta]

Dante,

Come on ... it doesn't matter that they are bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongman, etc ... having superb technique is great, but again, the APPLICATION of the ENTIRE program and all of the ELEMENTS (loading, volume, frequency, orthopedic status, current physiological readiness before the workout, etc) need to be analyzed. It is usually almost always the sequencing and organization of one's program is the issue since they don't consider all the elements and prescribe them accordingly to their respective individual needs.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante how do you feel about incline bench for overall safety? I myself have been inclining since i injured my pec minor doing heavy flat bench. Will never go flat again.

I think its great personally

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I think the flat bench is both awesome for pec development but also very dangerous. The fact that so many tear pecs on it shows what kind of tension it places on the pectoralis. You reduce the chance of tears with other exercises but it's due to distributing more of the load to other muscle groups.

Most of the guys with amazing chests, chests with the 'boxy' look to them do lots of flat bench work. I also think the flat bench is better for upper pec development than incline presses, for most. I'm sure most will disagree.

Awesome but dangerous as hell.

I dont disagree at all. Johnny Jackson for an example. I think the flat barbell bench press can be usefull but I think its worth (IMO and my opinion only) is that it should be done in a 10-12 rep plus to 25 rep range and in strict powerlifting (elbows in) fashion (and absolutely not in the Muscle and Fitness crucifix fashion).

My problem is in that people will say to their deathbed that barbell bench press tears dont happen any more frequently than other injuries and it just isnt so. Its an ego lift and people love it.
If you had everyone and their brother tearing their hamstrings on seated leg curls you sure as heck wouldnt have the battalion arguing so fervently about seated leg curls because its just not a badass "hey dude what do you seated leg curl!" exercise.

I havent heard of too many people tearing their pecs in the 12 rep range on flat barbell bench press.....and i do think it is of use if someone can keep their ego in check.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I know of a great deal of power-lifters that would laugh at this thread...
but we must not go against what DC thinks....shameful

The only thing shameful is that you have been juicing hard and lifting for 25 years and still have a physique that would place 9th out of 3 girlscouts and the janitor sweeping the stage.

 

[Shelby]

I powerlifted for a few years but had to quit due to bad shoulder tendinitis from flat benching. I tried to get back into it a couple years later and ended up rupturing my pec while flat benching.

I'm just posting this to possibly prevent someone from experiencing the same.

I guarantee there will be many more pec tears in 2010 though, this is just the start.

 

[terryd5150]

The only thing shameful is that you have been juicing hard and lifting for 25 years and still have a physique that would place 9th out of 3 girlscouts and the janitor sweeping the stage.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante,

Come on ... it doesn't matter that they are bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongman, etc ... having superb technique is great, but again, the APPLICATION of the ENTIRE program and all of the ELEMENTS (loading, volume, frequency, orthopedic status, current physiological readiness before the workout, etc) need to be analyzed. It is usually almost always the sequencing and organization of one's program is the issue since they don't consider all the elements and prescribe them accordingly to their respective individual needs.

Kapeta let me make my opinion perfectly clear here.....because i dont want the lines blurred on my personal opinion on this.

1) Does it build incredible mass for alot of people....YES
1a) Do I think flat bench dumbells can get close to doing the same thing...YES

2) Does it seem like every guy who is in love with bench pressing absolutely refuses to look at the number of people who tear pecs and blow out shoulders from it.....in my opinion yes
2a) Does it seem like every guy who formerly was in love with bench pressing who ended up tearing his pec absolutey regrets it and "aint going to make that mistake ever again".....yes

3) Is it worthy of an exercise....for those who are willing to take the risk that someday, sometime they might hear that sickening wet towel ripping sound....yes
3a) Powerlifters have to do it, Bodybuilders can use it and be safe if they do it in the powerlifting technique and stay strict and higher rep it.....unfortunately ego doesnt always allow that to happen.

4) Do people tear biceps on deadlifts? Yep especially with over/under. The choice is to go over over and usually that means being able to pull a little less weight....sucks but hey the bicep stays attached. Do people tear quads? Yep and it sucks....doesnt happen much but it happens to some people.
4a) Can anyone honestly say they dont see a new post every single week on one of the 4 main boards where someone didnt tear their pec on a flat barbell bench press? I cant.

But hey maybe im just a pussy or maybe I saw it happen right in front of me twice now (and had to help pull the bar off the guy) and have seen it ruin 3 bodybuilders competitive aspirations (and thats just people i know in person). Judges usually dont like seeing one normal pec and one on the other side that looks like someone took a shovel to it.

I support anyone who thinks heavy low rep barbell bench pressing is worth the benefit to risk ratio and I wish you well in that you never get hurt.

 

[kscowboy]

The only thing shameful is that you have been juicing hard and lifting for 25 years and still have a physique that would place 9th out of 3 girlscouts and the janitor sweeping the stage.

I just woke my wife up from laughing so hard at this one!! HAHAHAHAHA DOnt hide your feelings Dante.

 

[Snuka]

very interesting thread. What do your routines look like if you do not flat bench? I assume this is barbell flat bench not dumb bells. I use dumbells almost exclusively since I can keep my wrists somewhat diagonal I feel it takes stress off of my shoulders and wrists.

Lately my routine consists of what I guess you could call dumbell incline presses. but I set the bench 1 position from being flat. Maybe a 15 or 30 degree incline at most. I feel that 45 degrees is just crazy there is way to much rotator cup stress. I feel I can get the benefits of incline and flat while keeping stress to a minimum. I also throw in decline hammer strength machine and either pec deck or cable cross overs. I keep my reps from 6-12 and I have no problems.

 

[buselmo]

has anyone ever thought of their own body's structure?
bone length, tendon length, muscle insertion points... blah blah blah...

there's a reason why this guy can bench 405 lbs with no problem at all, and the other guy would feel like he's stretching out his pecs too much and feels like a knife is going through his shoulders while pressing 225 lbs.

come down here (saudi arabia) and go to all the gyms and ask "has anyone ever had a pec tear here?"... they wouldn't even know what that is. why? i've never seen anyone in the gyms i've went to bench more than 365 lbs. but i've seen a ton of shoulder injuries from doing really heavy slow rep cable shoulder lateral raises with perfect form...

Something i found common about people who LOVE flat bench... wide clavicles, very low pectoral minor inserts, long arms.

midgets like me (narrow clavicle, short arms, very high pectoral minor inserts), barbell bench (flat, incline and decline) is the reason why i developed my shoulder problems... and it's pretty hard for me believe that i can do ever other chest exercise correctly without a problem except for bench... i don't think that's the problem. it's structure. bench press doesn't fit my structure

 

[kscowboy]

Very true. Guys with longer arms will have their humerus way below parallel when the bar touches their chest. But a guy with shorter arms will have their humerus just parallel when the bar touches their chest. Thats why guys that are short and stocky and have a barrel chest can bench more.

 

[jalsmiley]

Kapeta let me make my opinion perfectly clear here.....because i dont want the lines blurred on my personal opinion on this.

1) Does it build incredible mass for alot of people....YES
1a) Do I think flat bench dumbells can get close to doing the same thing...YES

2) Does it seem like every guy who is in love with bench pressing absolutely refuses to look at the number of people who tear pecs and blow out shoulders from it.....in my opinion yes
2a) Does it seem like every guy who formerly was in love with bench pressing who ended up tearing his pec absolutey regrets it and "aint going to make that mistake ever again".....yes

3) Is it worthy of an exercise....for those who are willing to take the risk that someday, sometime they might hear that sickening wet towel ripping sound....yes
3a) Powerlifters have to do it, Bodybuilders can use it and be safe if they do it in the powerlifting technique and stay strict and higher rep it.....unfortunately ego doesnt always allow that to happen.

4) Do people tear biceps on deadlifts? Yep especially with over/under. The choice is to go over over and usually that means being able to pull a little less weight....sucks but hey the bicep stays attached. Do people tear quads? Yep and it sucks....doesnt happen much but it happens to some people.
4a) Can anyone honestly say they dont see a new post every single week on one of the 4 main boards where someone didnt tear their pec on a flat barbell bench press? I cant.

But hey maybe im just a pussy or maybe I saw it happen right in front of me twice now (and had to help pull the bar off the guy) and have seen it ruin 3 bodybuilders competitive aspirations (and thats just people i know in person). Judges usually dont like seeing one normal pec and one on the other side that looks like someone took a shovel to it.

I support anyone who thinks heavy low rep barbell bench pressing is worth the benefit to risk ratio and I wish you well in that you never get hurt.

i raise my hand to this statement and say those exact thoughts came from my head!! i tore my pec major tendon using perfect powerlifting technique, all those arguing that all movements have injuries are just plain ignoring the statistics...my surgeon was surgeon for the detroit lions and saw this injury wayyyyyyyyy more than others

 

[intensed]

Pec Tear

Tore my pec major from the bone. Decline Bench. All my exercises are now incline movements, my chest has never looked better.

 

[mike913]

I was just wondering if it could also be a possibility that the pec muscles tear much easier than any other muscle group? And obviously something like barbell flat bench would make it even more likely to happen due to the amount of weight being used. Or could it mostly be due to the angle of the pressing movement. I see alot of people say that they just stick to incline after pec injuries, is this mostly due to the angle of the movement making it less painful to do or just that the weight being used is substantially less. Another thing to consider bi's and tri's....I've heard of waaay more people tearing their biceps than tearing thier triceps. Maybe its just me but it would seem that biceps tear much easier than triceps. Basically I'm just saying that maybe its not only the excercises that are causing the injuries but it could be as simple as those muscles (ie pecs and biceps) tear much easier than others (ie quads).

 

[maldorf]

I powerlifted for a few years but had to quit due to bad shoulder tendinitis from flat benching. I tried to get back into it a couple years later and ended up rupturing my pec while flat benching.

I'm just posting this to possibly prevent someone from experiencing the same.

I guarantee there will be many more pec tears in 2010 though, this is just the start.

I warn of other dangers on here too, but many guys dont listen. I dont think this advice will be any different.

 

[wostok]

I was just wondering if it could also be a possibility that the pec muscles tear much easier than any other muscle group? QUOTE]

Yes... and its logical if you think about it.

Our legs and back have we used all our life since we started walking. For decades you have been walking,running, jumping, climbing, lifting stuff, bycyckling etc... But we dont use the pecs much at all, its not used to hard work.

 

[jalsmiley]

I was just wondering if it could also be a possibility that the pec muscles tear much easier than any other muscle group? QUOTE]

Yes... and its logical if you think about it.

Our legs and back have we used all our life since we started walking. For decades you have been walking,running, jumping, climbing, lifting stuff, bycyckling etc... But we dont use the pecs much at all, its not used to hard work.

also when you think about it...should an upper body muscle really be carrying the same kind of weights the legs can!?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

For guys who it works for and they can get away with not getting injured....I mean look at the pec thickness of Johnny Jackson....ridiculously thick.........

YouTube - IFBB Pro bodybuilder Johnnie Jackson backstage

more power to him....guy loves to flat barbell bench press.

but it always sucks to see what happens to someone like Francis Benfatto


1) Divot out of his right pec after pec tear
2) Pre pec tear...great build

 

[njpooldude]

I know of a great deal of power-lifters that would laugh at this thread...
but we must not go against what DC thinks....shameful

:food-s;il