Craig Titus back in the day

[KillerStack]

I could not disagree more. The 90's and 2000's were a totally different time. I was talking to alot of guys in the 90's and 2000's and i had a pulse for what was going on in alot of arenas. Every era has some crazy MF's there is no arguing with that...but by and large there isnt even a comparison of what guys are doing today compared to what they were doing in the 90's. People forget....for a large part of the 90's things were dried up and stuff was hard to come by at times. There was no internet that you could just go to a certain website and order up this and that in the 90's. You either had your local dealer at the gym, or you tried snail mail order, or you took a big risk and tried bringing it back from Mexico. GH was freaking 100-150 bucks for 4 IUS in the early 90's! In the late 90's and early 2000's people were making tren with finaplix kits! I swear people see the last 15 years and they think it was like that forever. It wasnt even close to that availablity (internet) or price.

The exact dosages Palumbo has stated many times over the years is pretty much the exact dosages I and others came to know as normal back in those days. And those dosages arent even in the same ballpark as what guys use today.

I still talk to alot of these "pro" trainers who are around today...they volunteer info to me nonstop because alot of the older trainers and guys who are known as "health conscious" trainers cant FATHOM what these modern day guys are doing and what the "known" new school trainers are doing to their trainees.

Heres the cycle a "new school" trainer put a 40 plus first time competitor at a local (YES LOCAL) show and what he had him doing at 12 weeks out.
1500mg test
800eq
600primo
800tren E
50Var ED
50 WInject EOD
8IU gh ED
IGF-1 pre training 30

Thats a first time competitor at a local show! WTF?! But ive seen this repeatedly over the last few years over and over. Two to Three grams of testosterone which was only used by the National level superheavyweights back in the day who were crazy somehow became "normal" for alot of modern day middleweights/lightheavies on up who arent even National level. Alot of what guys claim as TRT nowadays was a Testosterone cycle back in the 90's for a slew of people!

The dosages arent even remotely close. And the availability, ease, and in alot of cases pricing was dramatically different.

No, I agree that availability is greater and people use a greater range of drugs, like GH, which back then many couldn't afford or source. I got involved in circa 95 and things were the same here in Europe, stuff came in batches, you couldn't pick and choose, you used what was at the gym, one week it was Russian Dbol, next time it Norma Deca and so on What I'm saying is that every coach today preaches this "it's not about the drugs, dumbo", how instead it's all diet, consistency and genes. Every coach seems to have copied tons of your stuff directly, from the blood work to the log book. I link a lot of the current trainer wisdom directly to your output over the years. So the dosages are higher, but would you say the current crop is more drug focused anyway and is slacking in other areas, contrary to what they say? Would you say that the current amateurs who have decent chances of doing well are in fact not as serious about the training and diet as they claim and instead depend too much on the drugs? Say if you compared the amateurs, were they more serious back in the day, did they train harder, diet harder? So again, if we disregard the doses, is it still too drug focused even with all the talk about all the other important stuff?

Palumbo puts everyone on 1000mg of test as a base, even rank beginners, but now you have Matt Jansen saying it's more like 750mg, maybe a gram for his top pro clients lol. Funny about Tom Prince saying Milos was one who took a ton of gear, when Milos said he used like 1500mg, nothing crazy. Maybe it becomes "a ton of drugs" when you limit the roids and do some insulin.

BTW, I remember Titus saying the pellet tren was complete shit that did nothing, it wasn't even real tren lol.

Speaking of trends, I've seen some wannabe gurus talking about "microdosing" and I trace this trend directly to Emeric's 10mg thread here. Lots of people taking others ideas and not giving credit.

 

[thethinker48]

DC,

I'll ask you this; kind of knowing what you might say.

A lot of old school guys talk about gear back in the day being "better". And that's why everyone is ramping up the dose today, because they don't have accurately dosed stuff.

100 mgs is 100 mgs, 20 years ago, or today. There is accurately dosed UGL stuff, lots shit too. But the stories of Parabolan by Negma, 2902s, Ciba dbols...still circulate

What do you think? When I hear numbers like 1000 mgs of tren, the only thing I think of is how the person taking it doesn't murder the first person they come to at a red light, either they have terrible gear, or terrible response and crazy tolerance.

 

[maldorf]

The dosages arent even remotely close. And the availability, ease, and in alot of cases pricing was dramatically different.

This fact alone is what made it so many guys didnt use more. Most couldn't afford it, and even if you could it was hard to obtain. In the late 80s I was only able to get dbol tabs. No internet. My first source was an acquaintance of a friend. I had to go to the grocery where he worked and I'd buy it from him in the parking lot. Stuff was expensive to guys like me because it had probably gone through a few hands before I got it. Then the main source got arrested and I had no way to get anymore.

Years later in the late 90s I bought some from a guy I knew at the gym. It was mostly vet stuff. You took what he had. You couldn't be choosy. Hell, my first "pins" were 18 gauge. Buying tren pellets and making my own. Stuff was cheaper than the 80s, but still hard to get compared to now. In the early to mid 2000s I started seeing raws for sale and that's when it gets cheap as hell. Anybody can afford to run 3 grams a week doing that Buying from sources in the 80s and 90s you'd go broke.

Nowadays any high school kid can go online and order anything they want.

 

[maldorf]

BTW, I remember Titus saying the pellet tren was complete shit that did nothing, it wasn't even real tren lol.

That's a load of shit. The pellets I bought were the most powerful steroid I ever took. Never was able to replicate that with UG gear or even Chinese powder I used to make my own.

 

[Knight9]

A few things...
Always heard Pellets were THE SHIT. Sadly, when I got in the game in 2004, they were phasing out and I was never able to dabble.
Screw Matt Jansen and his lying and his piracy of ideas and products. He should be ashamed of himself.
And yes, it makes me sick that people pushing ideas don't lend people like Dante and others credit when they are taking their training or supplement ideas and whatever else they can parrot. Some of them know exactly what they are doing..and others are regurgitating info for content or likes and don't even know who came up with the ideas two decades prior.

 

[maldorf]

A few things...
Always heard Pellets were THE SHIT. Sadly, when I got in the game in 2004, they were phasing out and I was never able to dabble.
Screw Matt Jansen and his lying and his piracy of ideas and products. He should be ashamed of himself.
And yes, it makes me sick that people pushing ideas don't lend people like Dante and others credit when they are taking their training or supplement ideas and whatever else they can parrot. Some of them know exactly what they are doing..and others are regurgitating info for content or likes and don't even know who came up with the ideas two decades prior.

Man, they still sell those things. Just found some with no estrogen too. Found it in like 2 seconds. Searched on Bing using trenbolone acetate cattle implants. First link up toward top, under the picture.vet supply.

 

[jeroendebleser]

DC,

I'll ask you this; kind of knowing what you might say.

A lot of old school guys talk about gear back in the day being "better". And that's why everyone is ramping up the dose today, because they don't have accurately dosed stuff.

100 mgs is 100 mgs, 20 years ago, or today. There is accurately dosed UGL stuff, lots shit too. But the stories of Parabolan by Negma, 2902s, Ciba dbols...still circulate

What do you think? When I hear numbers like 1000 mgs of tren, the only thing I think of is how the person taking it doesn't murder the first person they come to at a red light, either they have terrible gear, or terrible response and crazy tolerance.

In my case it definitely is a combination of a crazy tolerance and a poor response.(they seem to go hand in hand) I recently noticed that again in Gunsmith's Anadrol-thread with people not being able to tolerate what are baby-doses for me. I simply need higher dosages than most and it is the case for other meds as well (I'm also on high doses of prescription meds just because they otherwise do jack shit). They once even had trouble getting me to sleep before a surgery lol... That says a lot I think. They had to keep giving me extra anesthetics to knock me out.

That's why I've always had trouble with comparing doses between individuals, what is going to work and not be (too) toxic for one individual is not necessarily going to work and may be too toxic for another individual and vice versa.

 

[lookslikesausage]

OTOH, many of these oldtimers drugged their way to the pro ranks just the same as they hardly knew any other way. Forget the dose, what matters is that you are "on". Most of what Craig used was going to waste. You can't on the one hand always say drugs don't create champions, that it's all genes - why would Craig be an exeption?
See Priest, no matter what he says, he started earlier than he claims. Flex started early by his own admission, it was juice pretty much from the start. What's kinda tragic is that I remember him saying, before his severe health issues, that once he stopped competing you wouldn't see him in a gym, like fuck that, no love for the training itself. I'm sure he thinks differently now, would probably love to be able to even walk into a gym, clean as a whistle but healthy.

I see this idea that guys are pushing more drugs nowadays as mostly a myth. Drugs are out of the bag, but all you see on social media is this constant talk about blood work, being meticulous with food year round, logging, and filming lol, your training all the time, just constant bodybuilding on the mind 24/7. I know many oldtimers think this new generation is far too serious, they shake their head at guys walking around with their food containers and writing down their workouts. They think it's sad and pathetic and entirely not worth it. Back in the day they ate whatever, shot whatever, tightened things up before shows but nothing like this 24/7 lifestyle nowadays. They didn't go to the doctors which Tom now regrets in the video above.

One interesting thing is that Tom always blamed Advil for his problems but he says he would never let his kids juice, so he knows it wasn't all Advil, the whole thing was unhealthy in many ways. Almost all of the legends pretty much hate the sport and would never want a loved one engaged in it.
Sergio didn't support Jr. and I bet Arnold had a stern talk with his son too because he looks completely clean.

One thing I'd like someone to explain to me is the striated glutes nowadays that everyone has. Is it due to GH? Everyone claims guys don't diet as hard and suffer like before so what's the difference, what is causing fat on your ass to release which never happened in the 80 except 1 or 2 guys? Either it's chemicals or guys just get leaner today, contrary to popular opinion. Which is it?

Tom P. was one of the thickest freakiest pros for a few years. it's a shame he didn't compete more. that guy packed an incredible amount of muscle on his frame and looked he maintained a pretty lean condition year round, even while getting up to 3 bills.

 

[lookslikesausage]

That's a load of shit. The pellets I bought were the most powerful steroid I ever took. Never was able to replicate that with UG gear or even Chinese powder I used to make my own.

same here. back when i had my time playing around, the tren we made from pellets was incredible. never again did i feel anything like it. i remember i bought a product called "rocket fuel" and it was a tren/prop blend. was supposed to have the same amount of tren i was on from the pellets and it did jack shit for me. when i was on the finaplix (also remember Animal's kits?) i was bulking and could literally eat a mini cheesecake from trader joe's every day and not worry about putting on bodyfat. now mind you, i trained six days a week and trained very hard and had weird ammonia stains in my gym shirts for some reason, but still, putting on bodyfat while on that stuff was unlikely for me. lots of gnarly stretch marks too. was cool then, not so much now when i'm 30 lbs. down.

 

[Knight9]

same here. back when i had my time playing around, the tren we made from pellets was incredible. never again did i feel anything like it. i remember i bought a product called "rocket fuel" and it was a tren/prop blend. was supposed to have the same amount of tren i was on from the pellets and it did jack shit for me. when i was on the finaplix (also remember Animal's kits?) i was bulking and could literally eat a mini cheesecake from trader joe's every day and not worry about putting on bodyfat. now mind you, i trained six days a week and trained very hard and had weird ammonia stains in my gym shirts for some reason, but still, putting on bodyfat while on that stuff was unlikely for me. lots of gnarly stretch marks too. was cool then, not so much now when i'm 30 lbs. down.

Trader Joe's and Animal's kits co existed at the same time? Wild. I could have sworn I heard the Tren pellets were chemically altered so people would stop making them into Fina.

 

[lookslikesausage]

Trader Joe's and Animal's kits co existed at the same time? Wild. I could have sworn I heard the Tren pellets were chemically altered so people would stop making them into Fina.

i don't mean Animal the supplement company just for the record. This was like 2001.

 

[Knight9]

i don't mean Animal the supplement company just for the record. This was like 2001.

Thanks man I know. I know who Animal is.

 

[KillerStack]

A few things...
Always heard Pellets were THE SHIT. Sadly, when I got in the game in 2004, they were phasing out and I was never able to dabble.
Screw Matt Jansen and his lying and his piracy of ideas and products. He should be ashamed of himself.
And yes, it makes me sick that people pushing ideas don't lend people like Dante and others credit when they are taking their training or supplement ideas and whatever else they can parrot. Some of them know exactly what they are doing..and others are regurgitating info for content or likes and don't even know who came up with the ideas two decades prior.

I don't know what Dante thinks of Matt, but I've seen Matt's training clips on IG and he has referred to "DC" on occasion. But yeah, many of the ideas come from Dante, including many of the supplements he sells.
I've seen people say Matt doesn't know shit but from the little I've seen there hasn't been anything really objectionable. I guess many have problems with the ideas not being original enough, and that's a fair point, especially if they don't give credit.

 

[KillerStack]

That's a load of shit. The pellets I bought were the most powerful steroid I ever took. Never was able to replicate that with UG gear or even Chinese powder I used to make my own.

Well of course. Craig's statements could be read a few ways though, since Craig didn't know anything about chemistry. He felt Parabolan was the only "real tren", which is false, though apparently Craig thought the pellets were vastly inferior so in his mind it wasn't even "tren". Something like that I guess It's a bit like many old schoolers and even gurus like Ameen claiming that, for example, Chinese drugs aren't really "real steroids" which for a self-proclaimed "scientist" is crazy talk. They talk about Chinese roids and SARMs being slightly altered from the "real thing"... again, idiotic. They aren't even talking about purity, which could be fair point, but this talk about differences in chemical makeup is something else and makes no sense.

 

[FK86]

A few things...
Always heard Pellets were THE SHIT. Sadly, when I got in the game in 2004, they were phasing out and I was never able to dabble.
Screw Matt Jansen and his lying and his piracy of ideas and products. He should be ashamed of himself.
And yes, it makes me sick that people pushing ideas don't lend people like Dante and others credit when they are taking their training or supplement ideas and whatever else they can parrot. Some of them know exactly what they are doing..and others are regurgitating info for content or likes and don't even know who came up with the ideas two decades prior.

Jansen rips off Dante's and JP's stuff as his own. His website has an identical layout to JP's and he even copied one of his t-shirts. JP has one that says:

trainedbyjp - the ability to progress at all costs

Jansen has one that says:

consistency - the ability to adhere to a plan long-term without being impacted or influenced by what's going on around you.

Same font and everything.

And look at Nick Walker. That kid is a freak and may be genetically gifted, but not a chance in hell are his doses conservative. He went from doing seated dumbbell presses with the 190's to the 200's for the same amount of reps in a month. I just don't think progress could be that rapid at such a high level without really pushing it.

 

[Npc7east]

Jansen rips off Dante's and JP's stuff as his own. His website has an identical layout to JP's and he even copied one of his t-shirts. JP has one that says:

trainedbyjp - the ability to progress at all costs

Jansen has one that says:

consistency - the ability to adhere to a plan long-term without being impacted or influenced by what's going on around you.

Same font and everything.

And look at Nick Walker. That kid is a freak and may be genetically gifted, but not a chance in hell are his doses conservative. He went from doing seated dumbbell presses with the 190's to the 200's for the same amount of reps in a month. I just don't think progress could be that rapid at such a high level without really pushing it.

Walker looks maxed out. Not knocking him just appears that is finding an equilibrium.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Maldorf and Pesty and a few other 90's guys could probably attest to this....via the quality of gear question. At least nowadays its got something in it. Back in the late 80's and 90's if you were on the East Coast especially....half the stuff was completely fake! Underground labs popped up but they werent like today....they just copied the look and made totally fake stuff that was inert. EQ? Faked to the high heavens. Anavar (SPA?) might as well have been Pez. If you bought things you had a 50/50 chance of it being total bunk back then (again especially on East Coast). The mexican stuff was faked over and over and over. I dont know how these fake labs and people forgot that you dont get a return customer if you give something that doesnt work to someone but thats what was happening in the 90's alot (especially early 90's). So the difference is maybe there is undermilligrammed gear nowadays, maybe not but back then you had a much greater chance of 1-2 of the 4 things you were using to be totally inert and useless.

I could tell alot of stories in this forum but to this day it still feels very uncomfortable for me to talk about things in detail. I would have to tell it third person.

As far as the finaplix pellets, there was a person back in the day named Dazed and that guy was an elite chemist. His kits blew away anything Animal or anyone else was making. His Fina kits and Synovex pellet kits were state of the art.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

As far as people copying alot of what I have brought forward in bodybuilding.....JP is awesome about it....he has always quoted me and we PM regularly. Others are a little more vague...and i get it....their ego wants it to look like they brought this information forward....I only get upset about it when its pretty darn blatant like using my exact verbiage...that kind of rankles me and i think "Really? Your going to use my exact words?"....... I do have guys on Facebook lecturing me in forums that I need to look into Astragalus or Citrus Bergamot and here are the reasons why...and i just look at the screen and just shake my head.

The bottom line is....if what I have proposed keeps someone out of kidney failure or having a heart attack at 44 years old....I guess thats all that matters.

 

[maldorf]

In my case it definitely is a combination of a crazy tolerance and a poor response.(they seem to go hand in hand) I recently noticed that again in Gunsmith's Anadrol-thread with people not being able to tolerate what are baby-doses for me. I simply need higher dosages than most and it is the case for other meds as well (I'm also on high doses of prescription meds just because they otherwise do jack shit). They once even had trouble getting me to sleep before a surgery lol... That says a lot I think. They had to keep giving me extra anesthetics to knock me out.

That's why I've always had trouble with comparing doses between individuals, what is going to work and not be (too) toxic for one individual is not necessarily going to work and may be too toxic for another individual and vice versa.

True to a point. It isn't going to be so pronounced that one guy has to take 300 mg/ week test to get the same blood level as another guy taking 100 mg/ wk. I dont think the physiology of individuals can differ enough to explain a 3 fold difference in blood level. I can see how the muscle growth could differ 3x though, that's involving more than just blood level.

 

[maldorf]

same here. back when i had my time playing around, the tren we made from pellets was incredible. never again did i feel anything like it. i remember i bought a product called "rocket fuel" and it was a tren/prop blend. was supposed to have the same amount of tren i was on from the pellets and it did jack shit for me. when i was on the finaplix (also remember Animal's kits?) i was bulking and could literally eat a mini cheesecake from trader joe's every day and not worry about putting on bodyfat. now mind you, i trained six days a week and trained very hard and had weird ammonia stains in my gym shirts for some reason, but still, putting on bodyfat while on that stuff was unlikely for me. lots of gnarly stretch marks too. was cool then, not so much now when i'm 30 lbs. down.

Yeah same for me. I was lean and not even dieting. Veins started popping out and I wasn't that vascular prior. Felt like I was hot all day and sweating like a mofo in the cold winter. I taught high school and the female students were always complaining how cold my room was because id turn down the heat.

I'd just use those pellets with a conversion kit to get rid of the binders. Potent stuff. I also have to admit that it was unhealthy, bad I think. One day my bp spiked up to 170/120 or so. That day I took it and then went to the dr. for an allergy shot. They held me for an hour, watching my BP. It finally came down to around 150 and they let me go.

At that time I was just grinding the pellets up and absorbing through my skin with DMSO. I think that method makes the hormone hit you all at once really fast. Just my guess. The doctors asked me if I was taking any "sports supplements". Of course I lied and said no. Injecting it never caused my bp to get that high. In later years I went on drugs to lower BP.