Don't worry about high hematocrit/RBC/Hemoglobin?

[XstarchildX]

What about a higher hematocrit with pretty low-normal blood pressure? Less concern?

I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but from my research one is more at risk with more parameters out of range. I know I am currently higher end with my crit but my BP is always in range, as are my platelets. Still, it would be great to get my H and H back to normal. It's getting there though!

 

[Stewie]

What about a higher hematocrit with pretty low-normal blood pressure? Less concern?

We can't play one against the other hoping for justifiable cause not to address.

Regardless of one's blood pressure we have to take into account the body as a whole. Increased viscosity over long periods of time can damage <(lack of better terms) our microvascular system. Ultimately having detrimental effects on flow rate in different regions of the body, i.e; organs, glands, peripheral tissue as well our eyes. All these areas are enriched with microcirculation.


The aforementioned "lack of better terms" essentially would be in-regards to insufficient oxygen transport, thus localized hypoxia.

 

[nothuman]

I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but from my research one is more at risk with more parameters out of range. I know I am currently higher end with my crit but my BP is always in range, as are my platelets. Still, it would be great to get my H and H back to normal. It's getting there though!

Same thing for me. Normal platelets, very good bp, and high GFR. HCT/HGB not to be desired though.

 

[Gizmo]

How high is too high though? The Denver population has hematocrit values that scare most guys on this forum, however they are fine health wise. Are there effects on the clotting cascade from AAS? It just looks like elevated hematocrit by itself is not necessarily a health risk (as long as it's not crazy high).

 

[XstarchildX]

How high is too high though? The Denver population has hematocrit values that scare most guys on this forum, however they are fine health wise. Are there effects on the clotting cascade from AAS? It just looks like elevated hematocrit by itself is not necessarily a health risk (as long as it's not crazy high).

One could only assume it depends on a lot of factors, including, but not limited to genetics. High hematocrit obviously isn't a good thing, but again I think it all comes down to the individual.

 

[CratusMedical]

that d be very hard to interpret unless they do a whole bunch of tests . He mentions just high RBC count in not dangerous, but combined with high platelet and leukocytes could be looked as a Polycythemia vera. Test does increase platelet and WBC can be increased due to emotional or physical stress, which could be anything from too much working out to too busy lifestyle etc. To completely get real blood test results , a person should probably rest for a week, with no taring and just relaxing to see where he s at...and I dontknow about the rest of u, but any tipe of gear slightly increase my platelets, and that s why i had to start draining.....or u can actually donate just platelets.

Our basic CBC will let us know RBC, hemoglobin, hematocrit levels as well as platelet count and mean platelet volume. We definitely keep an eye out for any elevation of platelets. With the numerous patients we have done blood work for, we don't find elevated platelet counts too often. This includes our long time HRT patients as well as bodybuilders that come over to us. I'm not debating that usages doesn't increase platelets, just that we do not see it too often.

From what I understood from this video and reading an article he wrote is that if the ONLY thing that is elevated is RBC/HCT then it's not caue for concern as long as your platelet count is kosher. Something in those lines at least. But an increase in all 3 means that your blood is in fact getting thicker, which (according to him) shouldn't happen as a result of using TRT.

He's also EXTREMELY anti-AI. He thinks that one should seek to optimize test/E2 ratio as opposed to seeking a certain E2 number. He thinks AIs are poison.

Now I honestly am not informed enough to claim whether he's a smart guy or a lunatic, but I personally truly feel best when my E2 is a bit higher.

On the same note, he is very symptom based with his treatment as well. He basically says that if estradiol levels look a bit elevated on lab tests, but the patient is not experiencing any side effects, then there is no reason to treat for the sake of lowering numbers. For you, if you reported to us that you did indeed FEEL better when estrogen levels kept a bit lower then by all means we would administer the minimal amount of AI to help you feel your best.

Absolutely, which is why I won't touch nandrolone again. It definitely shot my RBC's threw the roof and dropped GFR significantly every time I used it and never went above 500 deca, combined with 300 test.

Thicker blood raises blood pressure substantially.

Really on blood work GFR is is eGFR or ESTIMATED GFR. This is calculated by using your creatinine levels along with your age, sex, and race. The main variable being creatinine which is a waste byproduct that WILL increase if you carry more muscle which doesn't always mean your kidneys are not properly filtering creatinine. Big thing for keeping your kidneys healthy is keeping your blood pressure healthy and controlling blood sugar... not becoming diabetic.

What about a higher hematocrit with pretty low-normal blood pressure? Less concern?

For the most part, yes if you adhere to the same philosophy as Dr. Rouzier in the video and others. The main concern for clotting is when other clotting factors also elevate.

How high is too high though? The Denver population has hematocrit values that scare most guys on this forum, however they are fine health wise. Are there effects on the clotting cascade from AAS? It just looks like elevated hematocrit by itself is not necessarily a health risk (as long as it's not crazy high).

This is a good question. It would probably be hard to get an agreeable common number even among doctors as most doctors disagree with each other relating to any of this.

Here is an interesting article analyzing research on testosterone and thrombotic (blood clotting) pathways

"With regards to the coagulation cascade, androgen deficiency is associated with increased pro-thrombotic factors [21,22] and increased inhibitors of fibrinolysis [26], but testosterone therapy does not appear to change the balance in coagulation proteins [23] or the balance in factors involved in fibrinolysis when given for longer duration [30,31]."

https://www.jscimedcentral.com/Endocrinology/endocrinology-spidhypogonadism-1041.pdf

 

[Massive G]

Whatever in my mind it's dangerous.

I will still take care of my health, as soon as sides started showing on bloodwork I started taking the precautions of getting the necessary blood work and seeing the right specialists.

Prior to that I always donated blood once a month or two, then got denied and I have been seeing a hematologist for 15 years - albeit it is 3 different ones, and haven't juiced heavily since 2005, been on subq for almost 3 years now and prior to that when I stopped the heavier cycling I never exceeded 4-600 mgs a week.

Still my hemo has always been a problem and even after getting treated for sleep apnea since 2008, the hemo can rise above 50 even on subq.

I had every test known from man over the years, marrow studies etc and everything is normal, EPO levels checked etc.

My hemo says my body is a "conditioned" RBC machine and normal for me is 55, and fluctuate between 52 and 54 when we hit 55 he orders a phleb, which knocks my hemo down around 1.5 or 2%, right now it's around every 3- 4 months.

We have talked long and hard about blood draws and the dangers of pulling too much off too often, he said even in the most extreme cases -- he had a female bb'er in that had a hemo of 60 he won't draw more than half a pint a week.
Known plenty of guys that self draw either by multiple blood donations too soon after each other or otherwise, and develop complication with platelets, iron and ferritin etc.

I have been on blood pressure meds for probably 15 years 10 mg altace twice a day and it reduces protein in the urine as an additional precaution.

Never was a huge fan of stims, and resting HR sits at 50-52 and anywhere from 35-40 in deep sleep. Like others I have an athletically enlarged heart but currently EF is above 65%, and in two months I go back to get my annual stress test. I got decent insurance but I get blood work and see these docs 4-6 times a year including an endo and cardiologist. I usually burn through the $2500 in my FSA by November.

Not everyone here is a meat head and juices their brains out with little regard for their health.

 

[needthepump]

What about a higher hematocrit with pretty low-normal blood pressure? Less concern?

Yes a lower consern as long as platlets don't run on the high side. By high side, I am referring to an average platlet count of greater than 350K If this applies to anyone I would be careful with dosages . Donating blood would be highly encouraged. My platlet count over the last 4 years have been between 148 - 165k, so my blood is naturally on the thin slide and a daily aspirin is not needed in my case.

 

[needthepump]

How high is too high though? The Denver population has hematocrit values that scare most guys on this forum, however they are fine health wise. Are there effects on the clotting cascade from AAS? It just looks like elevated hematocrit by itself is not necessarily a health risk (as long as it's not crazy high).

It's when the high RBC's, hgb, and hct are combined with a higher platlet number, and combined with hypertension that the issues of thick blood become an issue. Sleep apnea, as DC has posted about in the past, leads to an increased RBC's, hgb, hct which all AAS will also cause. These people are at increased risk for heart and kidney issues.

 

[needthepump]

"Really on blood work GFR is is eGFR or ESTIMATED GFR. This is calculated by using your creatinine levels along with your age, sex, and race. The main variable being creatinine which is a waste byproduct that WILL increase if you carry more muscle which doesn't always mean your kidneys are not properly filtering creatinine. Big thing for keeping your kidneys healthy is keeping your blood pressure healthy and controlling blood sugar... not becoming diabetic."

Yes that is true it is an estimate. But I have seen a substantial drop in egfr every time nandrolone is introduced, so estimate or not, I feel that drug is not friendly to my kidneys.

Creatinine is slightly increased with muscle bound individuals, yes. But the data from the studies showed the athletes on the higher end of the creatinine levels ranged from 1.25 - 1.35mg/dl.
LabCorp reference range is 0.76 - 1.27 mg/dl. Quest labs is a touch higher with the reference range for creatinine being 0.8 - 1.33mg/dl.

We can't walk around with creatinine levels over 1.4 thinking it's okay because we have muscles. It should be a red flag and something to investigate further.

Taking the supplement creatine will raise creatinine levels as it converts to this. So many pre workout sups have this in them.

 

[needthepump]

A complete urinalysis is vital to truly gauging kidney health as it will detect obviously signs of damage - protein and blood.

 

[xman280]

Our basic CBC will let us know RBC, hemoglobin, hematocrit levels as well as platelet count and mean platelet volume. We definitely keep an eye out for any elevation of platelets. With the numerous patients we have done blood work for, we don't find elevated platelet counts too often. This includes our long time HRT patients as well as bodybuilders that come over to us. I'm not debating that usages doesn't increase platelets, just that we do not see it too often.



On the same note, he is very symptom based with his treatment as well. He basically says that if estradiol levels look a bit elevated on lab tests, but the patient is not experiencing any side effects, then there is no reason to treat for the sake of lowering numbers. For you, if you reported to us that you did indeed FEEL better when estrogen levels kept a bit lower then by all means we would administer the minimal amount of AI to help you feel your best.



Really on blood work GFR is is eGFR or ESTIMATED GFR. This is calculated by using your creatinine levels along with your age, sex, and race. The main variable being creatinine which is a waste byproduct that WILL increase if you carry more muscle which doesn't always mean your kidneys are not properly filtering creatinine. Big thing for keeping your kidneys healthy is keeping your blood pressure healthy and controlling blood sugar... not becoming diabetic.



For the most part, yes if you adhere to the same philosophy as Dr. Rouzier in the video and others. The main concern for clotting is when other clotting factors also elevate.



This is a good question. It would probably be hard to get an agreeable common number even among doctors as most doctors disagree with each other relating to any of this.

Here is an interesting article analyzing research on testosterone and thrombotic (blood clotting) pathways

"With regards to the coagulation cascade, androgen deficiency is associated with increased pro-thrombotic factors [21,22] and increased inhibitors of fibrinolysis [26], but testosterone therapy does not appear to change the balance in coagulation proteins [23] or the balance in factors involved in fibrinolysis when given for longer duration [30,31]."

https://www.jscimedcentral.com/Endocrinology/endocrinology-spidhypogonadism-1041.pdf

that is weird for me, because my last blood work with a heavy use of strong compounds had all in check - hematocrit, RBC albumin, hemoglobin, just platelets t 470 while the normal upper range is shown to be 400, and 11 on the leukocytes instead of 10 ( not sure if that s thousands but it s just written as 10 and 11) , but again - i respond different to chemicals compared to most people....

 

[nothuman]

Yes a lower consern as long as platlets don't run on the high side. By high side, I am referring to an average platlet count of greater than 350K If this applies to anyone I would be careful with dosages . Donating blood would be highly encouraged. My platlet count over the last 4 years have been between 148 - 165k, so my blood is naturally on the thin slide and a daily aspirin is not needed in my case.

Just went and looked back at my last 5 CBC panels. Platelets are in the 220-240 range, although last time it was 292. Seems to be constant though. I have pretty low BP but HCT/HGB creeps up. GFR 90. (non african-american) donate blood a lot. Thoughts?

 

[xman280]

so u re still in range with platelets, why donating blood, cuz of the crit?

 

[nothuman]

so u re still in range with platelets, why donating blood, cuz of the crit?

Yes

 

[needthepump]

Just went and looked back at my last 5 CBC panels. Platelets are in the 220-240 range, although last time it was 292. Seems to be constant though. I have pretty low BP but HCT/HGB creeps up. GFR 90. (non african-american) donate blood a lot. Thoughts?

The 90 is great. It shows your kidneys haven't taken a beating. With RBC's anything over a 6.0 should be addressed by either time off or donation. With hemoglobin, anything above 19 should be addressed. With hematocrit, anything over 55% should likewise be addressed with time off (back to TRT) or donation.

There are many options with donating. Basic blood donation, double reds, platlet specific donation which there is a great need for. Sane goes for blood plasma donation, this is the one they will pay you for.

 

[needthepump]

For most people a TRT dose of 150 mgs a week won't put them out of range on any blood cell count.

 

[Rainmanisback]

Asin kills my libido, adex makes my joints ache. No sides with nolvadex bro. I take 20mg a day when on 1g test. I haven't checked my hormone levels in a while, I don't want my insurance to see them so I haven't ordered them with any of my recent bloodwork to be honest.

I used to like nolva a lot, then an oncologist who was treating a friend with breast cancer told me is well known for causing blood clots.

 

[RamboStallone]

I used to like nolva a lot, then an oncologist who was treating a friend with breast cancer told me is well known for causing blood clots.

Did you do any further research on that?

 

[devenidas]

Did you do any further research on that?

fuck this is for real. never knew that!!!

Users saying having multiple blood lot here..

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/78/topics/786125

It's a know side effect of Nolva

https://www.oncolink.org/cancer-treatment/chemotherapy/oncolink-rx/tamoxifen-nolvadex-r

see attached screenshot

fuck this

rambo get off this shit mate.

I use pharma aromasin and dont exp any of the sides u mention.

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