PCT didn't work! Help!

[spartan]

You are in good hands with this group. They IMHO offer good sincere advice to help you with what ever situation you my be working. They have always been there for me.

 

[rj2012]

Thanks bro, I really think your right.

So is it better to use clomid or nolvadex in place of toremifene?

 

[Userat204]

Why did you start the torem if you didn't have enough to finish? This is where you need to be careful. Since you don't know where your estro is. The next best option is clomid. You can run the clomid and nolva but only if you have enough to run it.

Here's the issue, again without knowing what your estro looks like this is mostly speculation. Caber at .5mg 2-3 times a week does not carry any harsh side effects. When looking at valve leaking and things like that the doses were over 2 mg a day. So don't worry about that. You need the caber to get your prolactin down. The only other choice is prami but everyone I know gets a lot of sides from that.

No aromisin won't effect prolactin. It's an aromatase inhibitor so it will only effect estro. Caber is a dopamine agonist and will only effect prolactin.

The reason I advised aromisin is because using torem or clomid causes spikes in t levels. The body responds by creating aromatase which converts to estro. Aromisin is fairly mild so it's up to you on that but I would absolutely run the caber.

If it were me, I would stop everything for 2-3 days, since you are waiting on caber and aromisin. Go to PrivateMD labs.com and order the female hormone panel. Google for a discount code. You will get the results back the next day. This way you know where your estro is and can make a better decision.

 

[rj2012]

Should I get my testosterone levels and lh fsh done too??

 

[rj2012]

And the reason I started torem with not having enough is that I originally did have enough running 20mg less per day per week, but I was advised to up my dose...which takes away my 40mg week

 

[Userat204]

If you go to PrivateMD labs and order the female hormone panel. No doc then you pick a location for blood draw. It will cover all you need right now. It won't include prolactin but you already have that. It will cover total test, estro,lh,fsh, alt,AST, kidneys, CBC w/diff, hematocrit, hemoglobin, creatinie. All for about 50.

I would just hate to see you keep adding compounds if they aren't needed. A few extra days to get the other results is worth waiting then you can decide if you need a full pct or just some caber or aromisin.

 

[rj2012]

Ok cool I found that female hormone panel and I ordered it. I'll wait a 3 days and go get the work done. Thank you so much for your help, I really can't thank you enough.

 

[btech]

If you go to PrivateMD labs and order the female hormone panel. No doc then you pick a location for blood draw. It will cover all you need right now. It won't include prolactin but you already have that. It will cover total test, estro,lh,fsh, alt,AST, kidneys, CBC w/diff, hematocrit, hemoglobin, creatinie. All for about 50.

I would just hate to see you keep adding compounds if they aren't needed. A few extra days to get the other results is worth waiting then you can decide if you need a full pct or just some caber or aromisin.

Just curious . . . so it's "okay" for a man to take the female hormone panel, being that it still measures what you want? The results won't be different if you are a male?

Here's a 15% off survey to use;
https://www.privatemdlabs.com/survey.php

 

[Userat204]

Just curious . . . so it's "okay" for a man to take the female hormone panel, being that it still measures what you want? The results won't be different if you are a male?

Here's a 15% off survey to use;
https://www.privatemdlabs.com/survey.php

Yes. This is just the name for that specific grouping of tests. you are not actually ordering a female test, and they have a male version that is much more expensive but for the basics this covers what you need. When you order the test, you enter your information including gender. The results come back specific to that gender.

The only problem I have with PrivateMD is they don't go any higher than > 1500 on total test. This is fine for pct or pre cycle but won't give you a full reading on test levels when on and above 1500ng/dl.

 

[sodzl]

How does this PCT look?


Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

 

[Phidias]

Drug wise, there's not much I'd add to what Userat204 said, he gave you IMO good advice.

I just wanted to stress out the importance of nutrition when you're trying to overcome a drop in testosterone/loss of libido, and especially the need for fats in your diet... some might laugh, but egg yolks often work wonders. Sexual hormones such as test are naturally made from cholesterol in your body, and egg yolks are one of the richest sources.

Along with your PCT, try to eat a dozen whole organic free range eggs daily (60g fats total) for a few weeks... you should be pleasantly surprised.

 

[QuietStorm]

Testosterone total is 359ng/dl Before I started the cycle it was at 520
NORMAL, just barely

Free testosterone 11.5 ng/dl
NORMAL, just barely

Cortisol 14.1microgm/dl
NORMAL RANGE 6-23

Prolactin 38.9 ng/ml WAY HIGH avg. is 3.0-16.0
VERY HIGH should be < 15 ng/ml

TSH 3.8 was at 1.4 before cycle...did pituitary become insensitive?
these numbers vary with differnt labs as to what 'nomal' is but as long as you are within 2 - 4.7 you are in NORMAL range.

Free t4 .83ng/dl was at .64 before cycle
NORMAL RANGE .8 - 1.8

My pottasium and glucose were also low, but just barely. glucose was 70mg/dl

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Good call on the Caber, Userat204.
also a good idea to find out what your estrogen levels are so you know where you stand. Id still run the clomid because your test levels are low and you probably feel like crap because of it. i wouldnt run the anti e until you know exactly where you stand with your levels.
your thyroid is not too far out of wack, but you may want to follow up with your doctor from time to time and keep an eye on that. but it isnt enough to cause you any trouble and make you feel like crap at the moment.
my guess is your test/estrogen ratio is out of balance. and your prolactin level is high. find out your estrogen levels and then go from there.

 

[Userat204]

How does this PCT look?


Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

You have the right idea but your timing is off. You want to run hcg either during the cycle at 250iu twice a week or blast at 500iu a day after or both.

Using hcg at the same time as a serm is counterproductive and suppressive. With the serm you are forcing the pituitary to start sending the lh signal again but if you are using hcg (synthetic lh) at the same time your body won't produce what's already there. So you need 4 days off of hcg before starting a serm to give it time to clear.

So if using a long ester like enanthate or cyp, the day after you last pin of test, you would start hcg at 500iu a day. Run that for 10 days. You still run aromisin at 12.5 a day with this because hcg eventually causes estro to spike, and up to 25mg a day if needed.

So after your 10 day blast you stop hcg for the next 4 days but can continue with aromisin so a total of 14 days from last inject of test. Then you start serm/AI for your pct.

You can use nolvadex, I prefer 40,40,20,20, but I personally would not use that by itself. So either use clomid or torem, which both work the same at the pituitary(same function) and drop the nolva or add it to the clomid or torem.

 

[tdiesel23]

ya i have a feeling its ur prolactin levels being way thru the roof that will kill libido caber like said above along with ur pct shud do the trick

 

[rj2012]

Thanks a lot. I really hope its all works and I can feel like a normal person again...

 

[rj2012]

I thought I would post some test results. I only took toremifene for 8 days then stopped for 4 days because we wanted to see where my estrogen, fsh, and lsh, and test were at. So here are the results

Testosterone 730 ng/dl up from 350ish
FSH 6.0
LH 6.6
Estradiol 28.2

So the prolactin and estrogen are obviously my problem. My testosterone went up FAST...

 

[Userat204]

The numbers you just posted look great. I'm assuming they are still elevated a bit from the torem. Your estro is perfect and lh and fsh look good as well.

Where to go from here? You need to get the prolactin down so I would run the caber 3-4 weeks then stop and let your body return to normal. The difficult part here is do you still finish a run of torem or stay off?

IMO just use the caber since your estro is in good range and lh and fsh look good I think you are on your way to recovery. There's nothing to produce negative feed back so I think caber only at this point and just give your self a couple weeks and let your body work as normal.

 

[rj2012]

Thanks a lot userat, you've been a huge help. It's gonna be great to feel normal again. Ive been feeling anxiety a lot in the past few months and Im sure its because of the prolactin. Prolactin is goin down!

 

[rj2012]

Testosterone total is 359ng/dl Before I started the cycle it was at 520
Free testosterone 11.5 ng/dl
Cortisol 14.1microgm/dl
Prolactin 38.9 ng/ml WAY HIGH avg. is 3.0-16.0
TSH 3.8 was at 1.4 before cycle...did pituitary become insensitive?
Free t4 .83ng/dl was at .64 before cycle

These were my levels before the pct userat helped me with.
So I took 3 days of toremifene at 120mg/day and then 7 days @80mg and then i stopped and started taking dostinex @ .5mg every 2 or 3 days for two weeks. So I had 6 doses of dostinex. My last dose was on saturday.
Anyhow I had all my levels checked and they are looking good. A special thanks to userat for his help. It means a lot to me that he was willing to help and other people too. Good people here.

Testosterone serum 824ng/dl
LH 8.5
FSH 6.8
Prolactin 6.3 with a range of 4.0-15 WOO HOO!!
Estradiol 34 with a range of 7.6 to 42.6
Triiodothyronine (t3) 2.9
T4 1.32
TSH 2.3


So everything is much better. Let's hope it stays this way. I will retest in a month to make sure that prolactin doesn't go back up....

 

[bhumik]

any updates?